Discussion in 'Civ2 - General Discussions' started by Fundamentality, Sep 1, 2004.
Magellan's Expedition. By the time it's truly useful I can usually get magnetism anyway.
Magellan's still usefull after discovery of magnetism. It gives you extra movements per turn. If I build a ship chain to get those caravans or freights I need less ships to get the delivery.
The Lighthouse is a wonder I do not use often. This one expires when Magnetism is discovered. I only will use Lighthouse when there is a lot of ocean without land nearby.
In the hands of a skilled player pursuing sound strategy, like La Fayette's Super Ironclad which he talked about at Apolyton... or the earl y conquer in the right map geography... the Lighthhouse can be invaluable. Most of the rest of the time, its just luxury crap.
I think putting those shields into lots of frigates instead makes more sense, but I'll give it a try.
Magellan's does something no other wonder or unit can do - add two extra movement points to all your ships, no matter how old. If you have a large ocean map and need to get around fast, for mid-game conquest or ship chains, Magellan's is invaluable. On maps like the Gauntlet it was highly prized.
This makes Magellans effects less understood by many players, in terms of relative wonder value. The extra 2 moves, beyond the obvious, allows things like an extra attack as the ship is damaged, ability to do more with less, and hence less exposure to risk (like tansports carrying troops, or freight).
Did you know LaFayette at Apolyton? He used to post here, and one of my favorite things I learned from him was the Super Ironclad. It took some convincing, as I normally like to obsolete the Lightouse ASAP. But in the right game, if the AI has no gunpowder (or if you kill the musketeers before they can fortify in a city), you can park & clear the cities on the coast, until ground troops enter.
The problem with Super Ironclads is that they are basicly an early conquest tool. But early conquest should generally occur WAY before discovery of Steam Engine!
I tried going for the lighthouse early and concentrating on tiremes and crusaders with GOTM69. Turned out to be one of my best EC games so far....Though It's still pretty sad. I'm new .
Maybe the lighthouse isn't so bad .
Three Cheers for the Lighthouse!!!
@PaulT: Did you keep a log of your game? If so, why not post it in the GOTM69 spoiler thread ?
why you have so so many ships and fighting man in city, i think they must go to big fight to win world. why they so many.
I mainly play the Test of Time Fantasy game these days where
the wonders have been renamed and some are changed slightly.
But sticking to standard Civ2.
I play Huge Worlds on Deity, with no space ship victory option,
and find it essential to grow with lots of cities.
So for my parameters, the most important wonders are:
Hanging Gardens (1) > Pyramids (2) > Michael's Chapel (3) > JSB (4)
Also useful are Marco Polo's (5) or Great Library (6) for tech.
War Academy (7) > Leonardo's (8) > Magellan's for Military (9).
In the middle are
CFC, ST, KRC, US, DV, GW, ET
Less useful are:
Colossus (17) > Oracle (18) > Manhattan (19) > UN (20) > APPOLLO (21)
Now that you read back to the first page and post, some topics were not meant to be serious.
I say the Cure for Cancer is actually pretty crappy, it's a wannabe g.
well wht goood is the great wall?
i didnt see it up there so i voted for lighthouse since i seldom use triremes anyways. i would say the WORST wonder is the oracle. its quickly obsolete and not worth the shields.
a close second is eiffle tower since...as we all know...does nothing
I voted the Great Wall. It offers defensive bonus against barbarian raiders, but one only needs a phalanx + city wall to stop barbarians from sacking. (+ mounted unit to destroy barbarian raiders in city zones, since they pillage terrain improvements, also to capture barbarian leaders for ransom.) It expires upon the discovery of Metallurgy, so a civ that is progressing rapidly does not get the most out of the GW. Though, it may be useful for a player who prefers to play his civ with civilized and perfectionist tendencies; not wanting to get entangled in protracted wars, since all other civs must offer cease-fire with the GW. Also more useful when playing in a smaller map, as a player is more likely to encounter other civs earlier.
The worst wonder must be the oracle (although it's not on the list). In the early part of the game it's hard enough to build the decent wonders pyramids, hanging gardens, colossus etc. that wasting production to build a wonder that's so quickly negated makes it a complete waste.
I voted for great wall, out of the list this must be the worst, the best imo is pyramids, great value for a large empire at 200 shields and lasts the whole game.
Whilie pyramids is without a doubt a neat wonder to have, making it your top priority "drop everything else" best wonder when you play at emperor or deity level may...well...it may have some surprises in store for you.
For the reasons listed I agree GW certainly is not the best wonder available. But is it the worst though? Not having to waste shields building city walls in the early game can't be all that bad, and every city in the AI civ that has it becomes that much harder to conquer in the early game as well (when conquering the AI otherwise tends to be relatively easy). And if you like peacefull games, having AI civs begging for peace, it just doesn't get any better.
Just wondering. I never build it (by the time I've gotten the wonders I go all out to get, an AI civ already has it), so I agree it ranks pretty low.
It's fun to think about these things though , even if you never build 'em.
The Pyramids, Oracle, GW, and GL make excellent decoy wonders for the AI to build while you go for the Colosseus, HG, and MP. If you really "must have" the Pyramids, you can always capture it from the AI.
The Pyramids are especially good for this purpose because of the AI's fixation on food.
The list of wonders in the poll does not do justice. Worst wonders are not even included in there, IMHO.
I have noticed that several members think the Manhattan is the worst wonder. I agree. Nukes are not worth the trouble, if they can be avoided. (It is pain in the arse to clean up pollution after popping nukes, among other things.)
I would place the Eiffel after the Manhattan. The Eiffel's diplomatic bonus is not terribly useful in most games that I have come up strong -- my civ as the most advanced and wealthy. (Towards the end, surviving AI civs will go after the HP's arse anyway, even if his reputation is spotless.) With the production points required to build the Eiffel, probably better off using them to build wonders like the Liberty or the Darwin's.
After the Eiffel, I would say the Lighthouse, unless my civ happens to start from an island and must explore new continents ASAP.
Separate names with a comma.