Worst Wonder

[smartcanuck1988]

The Great Library seemed the most "meh" to me. I do appreciate the slots for great works of writing, but if that's the best it offers then at least make it 4 slots or something. Or +2 Scientist and 3 slots of GW. Right now the numbers are just too small to justify the hammers.

 

[Sascha77]

My first game I was going cultural and was producing so many great writers I had them hanging around because I literally had no places at all for them.

Yup.

I've seen that both in my own (semi-)cultural game where I ran out of slots and with AI players who would have GW and GA hang around their lands, probably also due to lack of slots for great works.

Looks like a play-balancing issue to me. Also makes me wonder why they removed the ability to one-shot these guys for a culture boost or a golden age... or, come to think of it, why there are no more golden ages in Civ VI.

Unlike Temple of Artemis in CiV, its nice that the AI never seem to go for it, unless they can't build oracle or stonehenge.

In all my games, I've never seen the AI build the Hanging Gardens. They seem to prioritize certain wonders (like Stonehenge which they *always* build) and ignore others completely.

Great Lighthouse, Great Library and Colossus (among others) are also pretty low on their lists.

S.

 

[kampori]

I agree that some of the late game wonders like Ruhr Valley and Colloseum are very useful. But have to disagree on Hanging Gardens. I never find growth rate a problem, rather cities grow so fast you're getting the -50% growth from housing a lot anyway, at which point the 15% are pointless. Also 15% is not a lot, so you're basically spending a LOT of early game hammers that are VERY useful early on. And you could always grab the +10% growth pantheon for a lower opportunity cost if you want instead. But sure, if you can grab it later in 3-4 turns, it's not bad.

But yeah, the Great Lighthouse is not so great either, I agree they should add "free lighthouse"

I built Huey Teocalli once, and it's VERY situational. But I think it's good to have wonders with more niche functions.

Yeah, the Huey is great if you have a lot of lakes (obviously) especially with resources on them. I had a huge lake by one of my cities that had oil, fish and crabs. That city became very lucrative.
As for the Hanging Gardens, I tend to disagree to be honest. I've only ever had 2 games where I haven't gotten it, and I definitely noticed a difference. Not only does that 15% carry on until end-game, where it definitely makes a big difference, but early game you can grow all your satellite cities to 10-15 pop very quickly. I tend to build granaries/watermills immediately, and spam out workers for a lot of farms. I never have housing problems until 16 pop, and by then its only a short trip up the civics tree until neighbourhoods.
Unlike Temple of Artemis in CiV, its nice that the AI never seem to go for it, unless they can't build oracle or stonehenge.

As for the hammers. My capital can build it in 10-12 turns, which by that point I have monument, granary, water mills, walls, 2-4 workers, 2-4 cities. The other cities can build a few archers (because at this point undoubtedly someone will DoW me), and I have nothing else I need to build. Districts such as campuses are very easy to leave until later, and I will get the commerce afterwards. After Hanging Gardens, I'll grab Oracle next (if it hasn't been taken). I never seem too far behind in my capital, even when I build 3 wonders in a row. The catch up is fast

 

[TrailblazingScot]

Far too few of the Wonders justify the immense investment required.

 

[kampori]

Far too few of the Wonders justify the immense investment required.

What exactly is 'immense' to you?! It's world wonder, of course it's going to be a big project. But 10-20 turns is hardly what I'd call 'immense'. The longest 4 to build for me, without Ruhr Valley and a lot of mines, are Eiffel Tower (30 turns), Broadway (35 turns), Maracana Stadium (30ish turns) and Sydney Opera House (30-70 turns.. I tend to have bad coastal cities)
Anything else is in the 12-20 range, which is very fine for me. Considering districts take about 15-25 turns to build it seems pretty reasonable

 

[criZp]

great lighthouse is the worst because I never build boats

 

[xcrissxcrossx]

Pretty much any of the late game wonders. They cost far too much for their effects.

 

[kampori]

lol, so many votes for the Great Library.. seems people really don't appreciate the 2 Great Work slots
It's one of my favourite wonders.

 

[Magil]

Voted Broadway because it costs way too much for a very minor boost and a few slots. It's worse than the Sydney Opera House because at least the Opera House only takes up a water tile, which is useless anyway. And the Hermitage is cheaper.

The Great Library is a fairly cheap way to get 2 Great Works of Writing slots late in the game. I would never build it early, though.

 

[kampori]

Voted Broadway because it costs way too much for a very minor boost and a few slots. It's worse than the Sydney Opera House because at least the Opera House only takes up a water tile, which is useless anyway. And the Hermitage is cheaper.

The Great Library is a fairly cheap way to get 2 Great Works of Writing slots late in the game. I would never build it early, though.

I always try and get Broadway. Its not that great, but I do it purely for the aesthetics lol. I just love the look of it right next to my city center. 30 turns is worth it to me!

 

[miaasma]

The boost to inspirations for ancient/classical are purely fluff. The real bonus for the Great Library is the Great Work slots for writing. And the science and Great scientist points.

Like in CiV, the great library is still pretty awesome.

the problem with this is that there are much better ways to acquire those things via districts which come online much earlier and grant other benefits. it also no longer provides a free library, instead requiring one, so there isn't much comparison to civ 5's great library (which was one of the first available wonders in the game and provided a significant lead if you managed to get it)

you'd build it for a cultural victory, so it's not completely useless, but i find it gets dwarfed by most other wonders in the game. excluding some like the great lighthouse

 

[kampori]

the problem with this is that there are much better ways to acquire those things via districts which come online much earlier and grant other benefits. it also no longer provides a free library, instead requiring one, so there isn't much comparison to civ 5's great library (which was one of the first available wonders in the game and provided a significant lead if you managed to get it)

you'd build it for a cultural victory, so it's not completely useless, but i find it gets dwarfed by most other wonders in the game. excluding some like the great lighthouse

Which wonder would you consider 'dwarfing' this? And yes, GLib in CiV was amazing. If I didn't build it I felt incomplete.
For the sake of 15-20 turns, I can build this, and get 2 writing slots. What districts provide this?? You only get one in an amphitheater, and building a cultural site and then an amphitheater takes longer than it does the GL. And only Broadway (much bigger investment) and Bolshoi Theater gives writing slots. Maybe another but can't remember.

 

[Galbias]

I don't quite get Chichen Itza. Unless there are improvements that will leave the rainforest intact (like the trading post in Civ V), its boost to those tiles doesn't seem high enough to warrant leaving lots of tiles around your city unimproved.

Likewise, I'm not really sure what the point of Rainforest tiles in the game currently is if you're not Brazil.


Hanging Gardens should really give you +1 Housing per city or something. It'd be great in Civ 5, but it's like they forgot how Civ 6's growth mechanics work when making it.

 

[Nefelia]

The worst for me is the Mahabodhi Temple. Sure, two Apostles are nice to have. But having your holy site next to forests may mean you have not much mountains/hills available. And another point against it is that you are basically exchanging production (rare) into faith (not so rare) since you are 'building' two apostles. The extra faith is nice, but not enough imho. This one needs a buff.

That wonder lets you evangelize while there are still good beliefs available.

 

[TruthfulCake]

Both Great Library and Great Lighthouse suffer from the same problem: they now have pre-requisites, instead of being a stand-alone that surpasses said pre-requisites.

The investment needed just to get a Great Library is significant: it obliges you to have a campus district. But campus districts are currently very weak, which by extension makes the dependent wonder very weak too. And once you completed it, it is nothing more than a glorified amphitheater that you cannot work with your citizen. If you are going for a cultural victory, then using the tile and the district quota to invest in a theater district gives you a much better result. Theater districts are mandatory for culture victory anyway.

The reason I rate Great Library lower than Great Lighthouse is because the latter is dependent on a very important district - the harbor. Since building a harbor is pretty much mandatory if you want to have a strong trade and a semblance of naval presence, aiming for a Great Lighthouse doesn't require you to sacrifice your gameplan as much as going for a Great Library would.

 

[CaiusDrewart]

The Great Lighthouse and the Great Library are super weak. If you only have a small number of cities and want to play culturally, then you might get some use out of the two writing slots in the Great Library. But if you've gone reasonably wide or are going for any other victory, it's not worth it.

The lategame culture wonders Hermitage, Broadway, and Sydney Opera House provide extremely lackluster benefits for their price. If they spawned a free great person or two when they were built, that would be something. As is, they provide very little and cost staggering amounts of production. The Eiffel Tower and Cristo Redentor are also very expensive, but at least those can generate substantial amounts of tourism.

The Potala Palace is clearly better than the five wonders listed above, but I'd throw it into the mix as a rather mediocre wonder. In most games there are really only two good diplomatic policies--the +1 gold per envoy and the +2 (or +4) influence points per turn. Since a lot of good government types already have two diplomatic slots anyway, the third slot from the Potala Palace has never appealed to me much. There just won't be anything good you can put into that.

 

[miaasma]

Which wonder would you consider 'dwarfing' this? And yes, GLib in CiV was amazing. If I didn't build it I felt incomplete.
For the sake of 15-20 turns, I can build this, and get 2 writing slots. What districts provide this?? You only get one in an amphitheater, and building a cultural site and then an amphitheater takes longer than it does the GL. And only Broadway (much bigger investment) and Bolshoi Theater gives writing slots. Maybe another but can't remember.

what difficulty did you play on that GL in civ 5 was even obtainable? it was nearly always the first wonder gone because of how good its boost was compared with when it was available. GL in civ 6 comes nowhere close

it's certainly not a useless wonder, but i would consider any wonder that has a relevant effect on its city (or civilization as a whole) much better and more worthwhile to build

 

[kampori]

what difficulty did you play on that GL in civ 5 was even obtainable? it was nearly always the first wonder gone because of how good its boost was compared with when it was available. GL in civ 6 comes nowhere close

it's certainly not a useless wonder, but i would consider any wonder that has a relevant effect on its city (or civilization as a whole) much better and more worthwhile to build

Emperor only. If I knew I wasn't going to get it by turn 22, I didn't even bother and would reroll the map. For me, my start was based purely off if I could get the GL. If not, it wasn't worth it

And I never said it came close to how good it is. But it's still very good that requires not many hammers. It's a culture wonder now, not a science one.

 

[Siptah]

This is a really interesting result. More than 50% of the votes to the GL. But let's be fair: a lot of that is because we had high expectations for the GL, no? You guys are really thinking it is the worst wonder by far?
I know some are only great in certain situations, but the shine in their niche and I'm surprised that those are doing pretty good so far.

 

[Sascha77]

More than 50% of the votes to the GL. But let's be fair: a lot of that is because we had high expectations for the GL, no?

Hmm.. I think we're justified in having high expectations when it comes to the GL. It is one of the original seven wonders of the world and those all *should* grant you a good bonus to their associated yields (GL = science, Lighthouse = naval-related stuff, Colossus = trade/income, etc).


As it is now, the GL simply comes too late to make much of a difference and to represent the exceptional achievement that the real-life GL was. In Civ V it could really set you up for scientific dominance for much of the game, plus it enabled you to insta-jump into a new era *and* thereby made it much more likely that you would be able to build another classical wonder (like the Oracle).

In VI, it's pretty much just an additional library with the addition of two GW-slots and tech-boosts that you won't be needing by the time you can build the wonder.

It needs to be moved forward in the tech-/civics-tree and/or have its science effect changed. I'd say either up its science boost to 3 and change the regular library to have a %-modifier to science. Or change the GL to grant that %-modifier instead of the flat +2 it currently has. If it isn't moved forward in the tech-tree, it should probably grant you a free tech that's currently research-able to you, much like the GL in Civ V did.

S.