Worst Wonder

[AmtrakQuebec]

I don't know why the Great Library is getting so many votes. The Huey is not only useless, it is almost impossible to build on most maps.

... a double whammy!

 

[Siptah]

Hmm.. I think we're justified in having high expectations when it comes to the GL. It is one of the original seven wonders of the world and those all *should* grant you a good bonus to their associated yields (GL = science, Lighthouse = naval-related stuff, Colossus = trade/income, etc).

No, it's not one of the original seven wonders and it's time of glory was a rather short one (~ 300 BC until Egypt was conquered by the Romans (48 BC), it existed in smaller form for some more centuries, but only as a shadow of itself). I agree it needs a buff, but I still belief expectations are high because it was so great in CiV and thus people are now most disappointed with the GL.
It can be buffed in different ways that I'd like, but not all at once:
- be available earlier
- grant more GS points
- grant additional GE points
- Theming Bonus for the GW of Writing in some way available
- give a small (5%) chance that any GS throughout the game decides to join your civ rather than the one that obtained it

but % of science? Thanks, no.

 

[Sascha77]

No, it's not one of the original seven wonders

Oops.. my bad...

S.

 

[Galbias]

The Potala Palace is clearly better than the five wonders listed above, but I'd throw it into the mix as a rather mediocre wonder. In most games there are really only two good diplomatic policies--the +1 gold per envoy and the +2 (or +4) influence points per turn. Since a lot of good government types already have two diplomatic slots anyway, the third slot from the Potala Palace has never appealed to me much. There just won't be anything good you can put into that.

That's a good point too, diplomatic policies definitely feel underdeveloped at the moment. More for the inevitable expansion that (re-) introduces the World Congress, I suppose.

 

[CaiusDrewart]

That's a good point too, diplomatic policies definitely feel underdeveloped at the moment. More for the inevitable expansion that (re-) introduces the World Congress, I suppose.

I think some diplomatic policies that helps your relationship with AIs in various ways would be nice. Plus maybe some that increase the magnitude of the city-state bonuses you're getting. Or maybe one that lets you purchase envoys with Faith. As is, there aren't many interesting options in that category.

And get rid of the -1 amenity in all cities from Police State, as is it would be ludicrous to adopt that policy.

 

[Amrunril]

Broadway, the Hermitage and the Sydney Opera House seem very underwhelming to me. They are essentially 1 or 2 great people worth of slots and points. That's not nothing, but it pales in comparison to what the Eiffel Tower or Cristo Redentor can do for a civ pursuing a cultural victory.

Oxford and the Bolshoi Theater seem weak as well, largely because sacrificing production for science and culture is something of a losing proposition with the current game balance.

 

[Timally]

I think the great library should be changed to give eurekas and inspirations for all the techs that have been completed by the AI

 

[CaiusDrewart]

I think the great library should be changed to give eurekas and inspirations for all the techs that have been completed by the AI

By every AI you've met? Yeah, I think this is a really cool idea and nicely captures the spirit of the real Great Library (an attempt to gather into one place all the knowledge of the world)

 

[Ferocitus]

My first game I was going cultural and was producing so many great writers I had them hanging around because I literally had no places at all for them.

Easy fix, and just like IRL: Get them to wait on tables. +1/2 food and +1/2 wine.

 

[Timally]

By every AI you've met? Yeah, I think this is a really cool idea and nicely captures the spirit of the real Great Library (an attempt to gather into one place all the knowledge of the world)

Yeah, I thought all of them, but every one you met would work as well

 

[miaasma]

Emperor only. If I knew I wasn't going to get it by turn 22, I didn't even bother and would reroll the map. For me, my start was based purely off if I could get the GL. If not, it wasn't worth it

And I never said it came close to how good it is. But it's still very good that requires not many hammers. It's a culture wonder now, not a science one.

in terms of usage it's a culture wonder, but in terms of intended purpose it's clearly still a science wonder. that's why i called it poorly designed. building a wonder just for the slots when it's supposed to do several other things indicates a problem with the game to me anyway

 

[KrikkitTwo]

By every AI you've met? Yeah, I think this is a really cool idea and nicely captures the spirit of the real Great Library (an attempt to gather into one place all the knowledge of the world)

That would work well.... (I'd probably limit it to 'time of building') if a civ you know either has a tech/civic or has the Eureka/Inspiration, you get the Eureka/inspiration for it.

an alternative could be a Free Great Scientist

Or it just grants all ancient+classical techs outright.

 

[redwings1340]

I've used the great lighthouse effectively in my current game, the extra movement for all my frigates is nice and sped up my naval conquests a fair bit. It only took me 12 turns to build when I built it, so it wasn't a huge investment.

I voted for the great library before looking at what others voted for. The eureka bonuses just seem to be too little, too late. I didn't realize it has the GW slots though, that could be situationally useful. A lot of the lategame wonders don't seem all that great while being very expensive at the same time.

 

[Sogno di Volare]

Considering they take up a tile now a lot of wonders are pretty meh to me so far.... in V I'd shoot for a wonder if I just had production and time, now I just ignore many of them.

Also feels like there are a lot of religious related wonders and if i'm not hitting religion hard they are pretty much irrelevant.

Granted the free policy wonders are nice, but as always late game wonders are questionable as at that point I'm likely occupied by shorter term (finish the damn game) goals.

 

[nitedemon]

I have the feeling that many wonders could use a buff, so there is more motivation to build them. Some seem good, some ok - but for some of them there is really no reason to build them, giving the high cost of production and a possibly otherwise good tile.

The worst for me is the Mahabodhi Temple. Sure, two Apostles are nice to have. But having your holy site next to forests may mean you have not much mountains/hills available. And another point against it is that you are basically exchanging production (rare) into faith (not so rare) since you are 'building' two apostles. The extra faith is nice, but not enough imho. This one needs a buff.

And I feel the Terracotta Army can be a bit difficult, too. I usually have no encampments in my core cities, so I have to build it at some more satellite-ish cities. I know, that's just my play stile and not the devs fault. But then the bonus of the Terracotta Army seems not good enough. I haven't played around with how good the boost to archeologists is in the late game if you are ahead of the civics tree. It may be huge in that case.

Terra cotta might be the last push for your double attack crossbows though, I think you might be underestimating it

 

[UWHabs]

Yeah, I thought all of them, but every one you met would work as well

Isn't that back to its Civ 2(?) mechanism where it gave you every tech researched by 2-3 others? I think we've been spoiled in that almost every previous civ game, the Great Library has been one of if not the best wonder in the game, and now that it's not massively OP, we're all feeling left out. Just like how the Pyramids was the best wonder in the original civ, and just never has felt great since then, even if it can still be situationally useful.

Otherwise, I think it would be cool if every district had essentially a "wonder replacement".
So basically
Stonehenge = Free Holy Site
Great Library= Free Campus
Great Lighthouse = Free Harbor
Ruhr Valley = Free Industrial Zone
Great Zimbabwe = Free Commercial zone
etc...

Where when you build the wonder, it basically doesn't count as a district, gives you the adjacency bonus of the zone, the associated buildings for the district for free when you research the tech, plus some sort of "extra" bonus (although not necessarily as strong as the current bonus, so Lighthouse would just be +1 movement, library would be the great work spot or the eurekas, etc...). Even just the "free" district might be worth it as a way if you're running up against the district cap in a city, and Stonehenge kind of works like that in that you can settle a Prophet there.

 

[RawlsRorty]

Potella Palace is awesome. Late game diplomatic policies are great. Being able to run Containment full time instead of swapping it intermittently while keeping Gunboat Diplomacy and the bonus Culture/Gold cards makes Potella Palace worth the hammers.

 

[Ravenwild]

Great Library: Great works of writing yield bonus science. +1 per era. Destroyed if city is captured.

 

[Disgustipated]

GL wouldn't be so bad if I could get it earlier. Even playing as Kongo, I could not get the culture to get that at a decent time. Way too late in the Civics tree. Part of it is my playsyle, I know. As I'm still expanding at this point in the game, and other than monuments, I don't concentrate on culture. Maybe it will work if you are going tall, but then again, going tall in this game isn't the best strategy.

 

[NukeAJS]

The Great Library because obviously.

Great Zimbawe because it's too restrictive as far as placement.

And while we're at it -- let's make most wonders not take an entire tile. Let's just put the Great lighthouse in the harbor, and the great library in the campus etc. I know this would take some moving things around because the districts have just three places for buildings but for real ...