WOTM 06 - First Spoiler

DaviddesJ · Mar 5, 2007

akots said:
Difference was huge and completely unexpected actually developing considerably later in the game around 500BC when it all became so clear.

It was clear to me, earlier than that, that I was in a big hole, research-wise.

I do like not knowing exactly what to expect. I think back to the old days of some of the Civ3 GOTMs, with new resources and hacked-up map features. For me, there's a lot to be said for that approach, over the approach of completely public settings and "test games" where everyone knows exactly what to expect.

Mutineer · Mar 6, 2007

From my point of view, challenger setting should be hurder then mainstream, but have opportunity to score higher score then mainstream game. Then they will be played, because all this people who like beating newbies on easy setting will have to choise between easier game but risk falling behind or hurder game and chance to win.

That would make to mach more interesting Gotm.

ungy · Mar 6, 2007

I also took the challanger route and was unpleasantly surprised at how quick the AI teched. I found in the rare event I was able to get a tradable tech (I beelined alpha--no, then drama), the AI was only willing to give me half price.
So I had to partially research IW to get it in trade for drama. Obviously my lack of experience with the difficulty led to some poor choices--I knew IW was important, I should have self researched it instead of trading for it like I would normally. When I could bulb phil, only one AI didn't have it in around 200BC. The half price (might be 60%--that would be consistent with lilnev's numbers) trading was really the killer.

Not sure if I'll finish this one--only hope is cultural and I'm just miles behind where I was in the inca gotm. I'm not wild about those games--you play a lot of hours and hope you don't get swatted like a flea by the AI.

That said, I like the concept of raising the AI difficulty--this was just too tough (for me).

ungy · Mar 6, 2007

DaviddesJ said:
I do like not knowing exactly what to expect.

I agree, however, I think that works better if the overall level ends up being lower so you have a chance to recover from the inevitable errors that causes.

DaviddesJ · Mar 6, 2007

Mutineer said:
From my point of view, challenger setting should be hurder then mainstream, but have opportunity to score higher score then mainstream game.

Well, I don't think this has ever been the case, nor should it be. The challenger option is for people like me, who want a harder game and don't particularly care about their score.

I will concede that perhaps this one is too hard. I agree with ungy---I'm not sure I'm motivated to finish. But, I still think it's good to have variety. A standard Monarch-plus-half-level wouldn't have been interesting enough for me to even start.

Obormot · Mar 6, 2007

Challenger games should be comparable to contender games. If you want a deity game you can just play it on your own. I do prefer the harder GOTMs, but the competition is more important for me. I am perfectly fine with hard challenger penatlies, for example I played GOTM-15 without the free worker, which is quite a lot. But this time I decided its a bit too hard, so I took contender. Looks like it was the right decision.

DaviddesJ · Mar 6, 2007

Obormot said:
If you want a deity game you can just play it on your own.

But this misses the whole point. If I play a deity game on my own, no one else is playing that game, and I can't compare or share experiences with them. If I play a challenger GOTM, then I can compare my game, and discuss it, with all of the other challenger players (as we're doing here). So it's much different---and better.

Anyway, as I said, I much prefer this to a monarch-plus-a-bit GOTM that I wouldn't even bother to open. That's just my one vote.

Obormot · Mar 6, 2007

But if its uncomparable to contender, then its effectively a different game. Its the same as running two different GOTMs in parallel. It has been suggested before and perhaps it does makes some sense.

DaviddesJ · Mar 6, 2007

Obormot said:
But if its uncomparable to contender, then its effectively a different game

I think that's true, and it's always been true (even going back to Civ3 days). Note that in Mutineer's preferred protocol where Challenger offers better score potential than Contender, that's just as true. There are still a lot of advantages of running one GOTM as opposed to two (or three) completely separate ones. The pre-game discussion can basically be shared by all. The map, the exploration process, the interactions with neighbors, are all likely to be similar. So there's still a lot of shared experience.

DynamicSpirit · Mar 6, 2007

DaviddesJ said:
DynamicSpirit said:

(btw looking back at the map, it struck me that the tile with the goody hut would've made a cool city site with 2 irons, gems, and tons of food from the seafood and lakes. But of course that only works with hindsight, since most people will probably have already settled round there before they discover iron working.)

Click to expand...

I don't understand what you mean. Where else would you settle? It seems an obvious place to put a city, even before the iron is revealed. The only alternative spot would be on the iron itself, and I would count it unlucky if you did that, but I would think that most people would get IW before Sailing.

Don't worry, that was just me being dim. I didn't register that even without the iron, that would've made a very good spot for a city. Shame, that might've disadvantaged my game somewhat that I hadn't noticed that spot.

(I got sailing before IW btw, because I was hugely prioritizing trading posts and I was hoping to get IW as an alphabet-trade).

DaviddesJ · Mar 6, 2007

DynamicSpirit said:
(I got sailing before IW btw, because I was hugely prioritizing trading posts and I was hoping to get IW as an alphabet-trade).

Actually, I learned Sailing before IW, also. Ignore that part of my posting.

Thrallia · Mar 7, 2007

I did as well, I actually got IW in a trade for Alpha...unfortunately, I assumed that I would be able to get access to iron simply be having it mined and roaded inside my culture boundaries, alas, that was not the case...leading me to require a second city on the second iron

Htadus · Mar 8, 2007

whb said:
That's what I thought, but it turned out that although I could work it for some reason it didn't count as my having the resource. Those mountains prevented me from connecting it by road to the city, and it seems maybe being able to take a resource along sea-coast inside your borders comes before being able to take a resource along lake-shore inside your borders -- the sea-cost side of the iron was outside the border, but the lake-shore was inside. I thought it would count as accessbile via the lake shore, but apparently not.

In any case, I ended up founding a city on top of the second iron on the small island to the south to take the nearby crabs, and definitely provide the iron resource.

I too discovered the same thing when I was practicing with Celt WOTM in preparation for WOTM5. I built a city across the coast to work the Iron but even after mining and roading, it was not connected. I later found out you need a city on the isolated land to connect any resources. Either case I never considered that spot by the hut since I already had a city NE of the Gem and did not want to share 3 tiles.

DaviddesJ · Mar 8, 2007

Htadus said:
Either case I never considered that spot by the hut since I already had a city NE of the Gem and did not want to share 3 tiles.

Why not???

ewokimpi · Mar 8, 2007

DaviddesJ said:
Why not???

Indeed, why not? I think the missing piece for a lot of us, myself included, is that we failed to visualize the lake tiles as 3f tiles when there is a lighthouse in a city on the south sea coast.

Thanks for the lesson, DaviddesJ.

Htadus · Mar 8, 2007

DaviddesJ said:
Why not???

Good question. Actually it was 6 tiles, but from what I have been reading, it seems best to have just a handfull of cities with little overlap and as many population as possible. So since I was not focused on any type of Victory at the begining (even now for that matter), I wanted to maximize my workable tiles and get the economy going. The 3F+3C tiles are my bonus food tiles for my Gem City and I am working both iron tiles on my island city. The biggest regret is that I do not have any bonus food for the iron City.

DaviddesJ · Mar 8, 2007

I'd probably put a city there even if both iron resources were deleted, just to work the clams. I suppose I might put it on the 3-square island instead, in that case. Overlap is not really bad. In the early and middle game, your cities aren't big enough to work all of the tiles anyway, and in the late game, you can always choose the best cities to grow and just leave the "extra" cities relatively small.

Another reason I liked putting a city next to the iron is that it creates the equivalent of the Panama canal, through the middle of the island. Makes it easier to move ships around, although, admittedly, it's not a big deal.

Htadus · Mar 9, 2007

After playing WOTM 3 several times for practice and not submitting the Zulu game because crashing about dozen times due to extremely lucky spread of Hinduism to all but the Koreans, I think I am finally ready for this game. Oh yeah... not founding early religions this time.

The Lofty Plan: Get Machinery from the Oracle, build the Pyramids, use the GE to build the Great Library and light bulb to Astro and win....somehow....domination?....Diplomatic?.....Space Race??...Who knows. Oh yeah forgot circumnavigation. OB with all and trade freely.

The Execution: Settled on the spot build a WB, Worker, Warrior, Settler, Warrior and the Oracle....well tried to build the Oracle. Learned mining, Ah, BW, The Wheel, IW and others. Priesthood was in there somewhere. Well, The Oracle adventure lasted may be 3 turns when someone built it. :cry:

Well the Pyramids will be available in a few turns. So lets get another settler out to claim the second gem; the first settler had claimed the gem site nearby and using two cottages and sharing a mine with the capital. When the Pyramids were available started building it. Every time the Cap go into unhappiness, we would rush a building or a unit that require two pop and rush to get extra hammers for the Mids. When it was possible the Pyramids were rushed on the turn before 100 BC

and had the first and only crash so far. (I keep on forgetting to turn graphic quality to medium and the peuter would ofter crash when the Wonder movie starts.)

At 500 AD, Ragnar is at the bottom of the scoreboard, running research at 100% with 5 good cities and almost caught up with all other cives in Technologies. We are up at least one tech on all others at 1000 AD. We did build the Great Library and about to get Astro for free via Liberalism. Meanwhile we were investigating all the cities with just 2 boats the Romans circumnavigated the map. :mad:

Playing Civ4 at 2AM can do things like this. :lol:

The Future: Not decided yet. I do have a personal issue with Huayna for beating me to the Stars in GOTM14 and he keep going back and forth between pleased to cautious all the time. But my best bets are to go get the American Lands since they have the Colossus and GLH. They are so far away. But some thing need to happen. What???? Will I be able to finish by submittal time? :eek:

Cleaned up Turnlog:

Spoiler :

Htadus · Mar 9, 2007

DaviddesJ said:
I'd probably put a city there even if both iron resources were deleted, just to work the clams. I suppose I might put it on the 3-square island instead, in that case. Overlap is not really bad. In the early and middle game, your cities aren't big enough to work all of the tiles anyway, and in the late game, you can always choose the best cities to grow and just leave the "extra" cities relatively small.

Another reason I liked putting a city next to the iron is that it creates the equivalent of the Panama canal, through the middle of the island. Makes it easier to move ships around, although, admittedly, it's not a big deal.

I wished I put a city on the Horse Island too. Wait, I still can. I may just do that if I do not go annexing another large island.

....Actually that may still be very helpful even during annexing process. Thanks. :goodjob:

Vynd · Mar 14, 2007

Htadus said:
When it was possible the Pyramids were rushed on the turn before 100 BC and had the first and only crash so far. (I keep on forgetting to turn graphic quality to medium and the peuter would ofter crash when the Wonder movie starts.)

You can turn off the movies entirely in the options. I'd forgotten they even have Wonder movies.

WOTM 06 - First Spoiler

Deity

Deity

Deity

Deity

Deity

Old warmonger

Deity

Old warmonger

Deity

Fear him of the pink tie

Deity

Prodigal Staffer

A and L's dad

Deity

A Tribal Force

A and L's dad

Deity

A and L's dad

A and L's dad

Prince

Similar threads