Would Mannstein's post-Stalingrad plan have worked?

Well, after declaring war on the Soviets and the USA, I don't think that Germany had any chance of winning WWII at all, or negotiate peace on German terms.

They might have been ahead the rest of us when the war broke out regarding technology, disciplin, modern strategic and tactical warfare etc, but that changed when the Allies+Soviet started gearing up to fight back bigtime during 42-43. Not to mention that Mussolinis Italy, Nazi Germanys most significant European ally, was an embarrasment on the battlefield compared to the Germans.

Had the German warmachine and the Nazi-leadership still been well alive and fighting during 1945 and the Allies+Soviets no where near German borders, I wouldn't be surprised if Truman would have dropped an atom bomb somewhere in Germany to persuade them to surrender. Game over. :)
 
Its was essentially impossible to stop a nuclear attack because it would be a surprise, and therefor it extremely likely that the bomber would get through if sent in a formation with escort.
 
Well, if the Germans had air superiority then such an attack would be suicide. In for the US worst case the bomber might have been made a crash landing and giving the Germans a totally functional nuke. So air superiority is needed. Also remember Germany had RADAR in that times.

Adler
 
Even the worst raids for the allies had well above 50% survivability ratings, so a nuclear attack would have been unlikely to be prevented even under the best conditions.
 
Well, did the US risk it to lose the bomb in such a way if they are not sure the enemy could prevent it? Here I don't mean the one lucky pilot shooting down that plane conicidentally but a strong opposition. Also the Germans still could have retaliated with a gas attack on London with V2 missiles. That could have been as costly as a nuke. So I doubt they would dared such an attack.

Adler
 
And yet again Adler wanders into the realm of wishful thinking. German equality tended tot be slightly better than the allied stuff with the exception of tanks. Even operational 262's in 43 wouldn't have turned the tide.
 
Well, if we take it that Germany would still be fighting onwards from May 1945, it might not have been necessary to actually use the A-bomb in Germany.

The A-bombs dropped in Hiroshima and Nagasaki in August of 1945 would probably have pursuaded the German generals to seize figthing and sue for a peace agreement with the Allies - even if that meant 'taking care' of Hitler and his inner circle of fanatics themselves.
 
Zardnaar said:
And yet again Adler wanders into the realm of wishful thinking. German equality tended tot be slightly better than the allied stuff with the exception of tanks. Even operational 262's in 43 wouldn't have turned the tide.
Click to expand...
Er, this isn't Adler wandering. Agent Cooper posed an interesting question, what if, for whatever reason, the German War Machine was still functioning by 1945, would/could the U.S. drop the bomb?
 
Well they made 2 bombs 1 for Germany 1 for Japan and had a policy of Germany 1st.
 
Well, I would say that even if the German groundtroops were still holding on their own during 1945 and keeping the Allies/Soviet troops outside Germany, the Luftwaffe was in ruins in the last stages of WWII. If the Americans wanted to detonate an A-bomb over a major German city (not Berlin) to make an example, they could have launched lots of fighterplanes to escort the plane carrying the bomb. Germany was in no condition to effectivly hinder this - besides, they wouldn't know what was coming or where.
 
Well, Germany had still thousands of planes when surrendering or shortly before. The problem was the fuel. Given that date the Allies were still outside the Reich it might be a total different situation.

Adler
 
True, to survive into 1945 still fighting, the Germans would most certainly need the fuel. The closest petrol in enough quantity was Romania, next closest was Caucasus and the Middle East. The US was basically the world's largest producer of both Coal AND Oil at the time, so access to a significant fuel supply is critical for the Reich. The Germans lost air superiority, I suspect, mainly due to the crippling shortages of raw materials such as fuel and machined parts, that were starting to show up even by 1943 (chinks in the armor as it were).
 
I do know that the Luftwaffe lost a massive number of aircraft of all types during Citadel that could have been better conserved and used elsewhere. The losses of fighter aircraft alone I believe numbered nearly 1000. The transport aircraft were another squandered asset.
 
Perhaps if it was "Operation UP Uranus"...
If Germany had somehow taken care of Britain (took the isles or a cease-fire, both seem near impossible), maybe waiting till then to attack Russian would have made sense?? Or getting forces built up in the Balkans and securing them, so that there were more borders with Russia to launch an attack from?
 
I see alot of 'what if's' being bounded about in this thread. Personally, I think people focus too much on the European 'what if's and forget that Japan was a major part of the war as well.....and I think Germanys best chace at winning the war not only required better luck against the Russians and victory in Africa but also a sucessful Japanese war against the Allies.
 
ParkCungHee said:
Read the whole thread, Adler is addressing a what if scenario.
Click to expand...

Yes, of course if the Axis had air superiority, you couldn't drop a nuke on Germany. But it doesn't mean anything.

It's like saying if we gave Germany nukes in 1940, they could defeat Britain.
 
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