The gold on founding fits with the myth of Carthages founding. I've been thinking about this, probably too much, and maybe keep lighthouses and just get gold on founding the capital and no other cities. Or, gain current sum on founding capital and when founding other cities, gain enough to invest in a shrine or monument type building. If this is possible to code.
Would you like to see Carthage modified?
- Thread starter Ziad
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The gold on founding fits with the myth of Carthages founding. I've been thinking about this, probably too much, and maybe keep lighthouses and just get gold on founding the capital and no other cities. Or, gain current sum on founding capital and when founding other cities, gain enough to invest in a shrine or monument type building. If this is possible to code.
There's no need to reinvent the part of Carthage's UA right now which currently holds the entire civilization afloat and has been a staple of Carthage's gameplay since the VP rework.
The issue lies with the obsolete parts of her kit, namely everything else except maybe the UU if you're playing a water-heavy map.
The issue lies with the obsolete parts of her kit, namely everything else except maybe the UU if you're playing a water-heavy map.
I don't see how any of this is obsolete. I really like quinquereme, if my neighbor begins with a coastal capital, I begin the game with the 2 capitals. Yes its a naval UU, yes naval UUs have flaws, its still a good unit. I regurlarly take cities with these boats on Continents and Pangea (anything with more water than continents and Carthage is a free win)
The Great Cothon is really good. A relative loss of one trade route (Carthage still gets them earlier and doens't have to build a customs house) did not turn this amazing national wonder into something in desperate need of a buff.
Its Carthage only
Available earlier with a minor bonus is what sums up those two uniques, and that isn't even unique to them. I do agree that the Quinqireme can be strong, but it's still a conditional UU by virtue of being naval. Great Cothon might as well be a Lighthouse UB that gives +2 culture. You didn't mention the resource diversity bit. It's pretty forgettable I think.
Honestly the point of this was to replace the resource diversity (and possibly reduce the settlement bonus somewhat to like 125-150) in favor of some more scaling potential that persists throughout the game so that she's less of a one hit wonder.
Oh well Carthage will live.
Even if the QQ doesn't get a lot of action early, its a great scout, and it can build up a ton of XP early from all of its scouting. So by the time caravels come along, you have a very strong first caraval ready to explore.
And don't forgot the Cothon provides +3 hammers on harbors as well, very solid bonus.
2 culture and 3 hammers per city is a minor bonus in what universe? Usually as Carthage the only thing I wish I had more of is culture, and then bam, Great Cothon comes along.Available earlier with a minor bonus is what sums up those two uniques, and that isn't even unique to them. I do agree that the Quinqireme can be strong, but it's still a conditional UU by virtue of being naval. Great Cothon might as well be a Lighthouse UB that gives +2 culture. You didn't mention the resource diversity bit. It's pretty forgettable I think.
Honestly the point of this was to replace the resource diversity (and possibly the production bonus) in favor of some more scaling potential that persists throughout the game so that she's less of a one hit wonder.
Oh well Carthage will live.
Massive combat bonus and free promotion is a minor bonus in what universe? A pair of quinqueremes can knock down coastal cities hilariously easy. After racking up experience they can take the capitals too. There is nothing minor about those bonuses
Wouldn't that return the situation to where it was before the changes?
Buildings are already almost back to where they were. With 30% it'll be worse than before.
I'm confused
Huh? No. I don't think you understood what the prior issue was - it wasn't the overall cost, it was the relative cost of buildings v. units.
G
Right but now building investment cost will increase with respect to before and unit investment will be lower, at least in the early game. Given that you tend to invest more in buildings and are less likely to buy units due to the XP changes, wouldn't this be a reversal to the situation that was before (and then some?)
Ultimately wouldn't this in effect be a nerf to Carthage's UA? The founding bonus currently allows an investment in a monument, shrine, and unit. With +30% on both, it'll not be possible.
Maybe this thread was premature after all.
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Right but now building investment cost will increase with respect to before and unit investment will be lower, at least in the early game. Given that you tend to invest more in buildings and are less likely to buy units due to the XP changes, wouldn't this be a reversal to the situation that was before (and then some?)
Ultimately wouldn't this in effect be a nerf to Carthage's UA? The founding bonus currently allows an investment in a monument, shrine, and unit. With +30% on both, it'll not be possible.
Maybe this thread was premature after all.
Increasing both by 30%, for example, wouldn't change the ratio of cost between them.
G
There is a link in this post if you wish to participate in that poll.
Moderator Action: Locked that thread in order to keep discussion here.
Moderator Action: Locked that thread in order to keep discussion here.
I like carthage the best because I don't like going full warmonger.
Phoenician Heritage: Cities provide 175
when founded, scaling with Era. Owned coastal cities receive a free Lighthouse, and Resource Diversity triples the value of trade routes (this means that a difference of resources in the cities adds 1.5 , up from 0.5 )
^ That is probably one of the best bonuses, depending on map and how you play; I go up the coasts unless someone is settling up to me or there is a wonder tile. QQ is also a monster unit and scouting with it is fun, for a good amount of time it seems that nobody can settle a city on your water unless you let them; the extra gold you get + city founding gold makes it so you can just buy them outright, and it doesn't take many to smash a new city. They are one of the strongest snowball civs imo, and I dunno if they necessarily don't scale well late game (well, to be honest I only play on emp, cuz I'm a wuss) because of the large amounts of gold they get, and you can settle anywhere on water and the city is connected + has money to buy a new unit or invest in a building. Can start w/ walls if you so wish.
I'm not a master metagame player, but I'm sure anything they do better than me, they could do better than me with extra starting gold + extra gpt from buffs and lighthouse.
The only time they would be bad is if you played a full on land map, but even having a decent sized lake would be enough to get you going in the beginning.
Phoenician Heritage: Cities provide 175
when founded, scaling with Era. Owned coastal cities receive a free Lighthouse, and Resource Diversity triples the value of trade routes (this means that a difference of resources in the cities adds 1.5 , up from 0.5 )^ That is probably one of the best bonuses, depending on map and how you play; I go up the coasts unless someone is settling up to me or there is a wonder tile. QQ is also a monster unit and scouting with it is fun, for a good amount of time it seems that nobody can settle a city on your water unless you let them; the extra gold you get + city founding gold makes it so you can just buy them outright, and it doesn't take many to smash a new city. They are one of the strongest snowball civs imo, and I dunno if they necessarily don't scale well late game (well, to be honest I only play on emp, cuz I'm a wuss) because of the large amounts of gold they get, and you can settle anywhere on water and the city is connected + has money to buy a new unit or invest in a building. Can start w/ walls if you so wish.
I'm not a master metagame player, but I'm sure anything they do better than me, they could do better than me with extra starting gold + extra gpt from buffs and lighthouse.
The only time they would be bad is if you played a full on land map, but even having a decent sized lake would be enough to get you going in the beginning.
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