Wow....plus SMAC mod reborn!

[GeoModder]

Mmm... yes I guess, except for the Special Abilities of course.

 

[GarretSidzaka]

i think that the units should automatically strengthen when the proper techs are researched (it can even change the graphics) for instance, a 3/3/3 hydrofoil would now become 4/4/4 hydro foil, and have some different parts.

now of course civ4 only has strength and not attack/defense so this will save us some work and time.

we also should make clever use of the civ4 unit obsolescence system.

 

[cvlowe]

now of course civ4 only has strength and not attack/defense so this will save us some work and time.

The FfH mod re-added attack/defense so it is possible.

 

[snipperrabbit!!]

morale can also be added, IIRC.

 

[troyDoogle7]

Here's what I'm hoping will work as far as snap together Unit parts.

In this screenshot is a 6-4-3-1 Missile Foil equipped with a Fission reactor and Plasma Steel armor. The chassis, armor, weapon, reactor, and foil "tube" are all individual pieces that can be put together. Additional reactors, weapons, armor types, and misc items can also be attached to create new units.

@woodelf.... Wow that sounds really complicated...Why not start with a smaller subset of units eg:

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pSjUHDnVkJ3iMFM1W37glDg
(read second and third column)

And use promotions to give bonus like reactor via promotions system eg

Free +1 movement after discovering fusion tech (same way that red cross works)

 

[Vrenir]

What if for the time being, you simply make the units as a normal progression. In other words, make some of the later techs (weapon, armor, and reactor) dependant upon earlier ones, so that you can obsolete units instead of making many permutations. You can cut many of the in-between stages out as well as items like unarmored, heavily armed needlejets. Also make the special abilities promotions using the standard XP system. This will vastly cut down the amount of models you need to produce, and while it will offer fewer options than you may like, it will enable you to get an initial release out. After that, you can worry about adding in more specialized units.

Your focus for now, in my opinion, should be the following:
1) Basic terrain and improvments
2) City and static leaderhead designs for Vanilla factions
3) Tech tree
4) Basic selection of Alpha Centauri units with basic promotions
5) Civics and possibly religions (Centauri, Humanism, Theism)
After that, you should be ready for a release. Through the release, you gain further support and assistance. You then begin to add in and/or tweak the features you want, things like Alien Crossfire factions, more units, new game features, etc.

Seriously, your work so far looks amazing. I loved SMAC, and would love to see it brought over to CivIV. The fact that so many groups have started and stopped is sad, but I'm glad to see it picked up again and hopefully able to build on the resources of the past attempts. Maybe we'll actually see a release this time around.

 

[Gunner]

Good job on that artwork woodelf! It does a good job capturing the feel of SMAC.

 

[Watiggi]

Good job on that artwork woodelf! It does a good job capturing the feel of SMAC.

It does doesn't it.

 

[KMadCandy]

If we make timetables, the terrorists win

every time a modder sets a tentative date for something, sid kills a kitten. or something like that, i read it on the internet. it's bad mojo.

I think we're hoping to find a place for every notable quote.

i loved SMAC. i hadn't played it in years, but was reading CFC and someone had in their sig that pravin lal quote that begins "as the americans learned so painfully in earth's final century ..." it had been so long but i heard it exactly, i love how he says painfully *giggle*. i couldn't get it out of my head! i ended up reinstalling it and now i play it every once in a while when i want something different. so much stuff in that game was way too cool.

i do enjoy leonard nimoy's voiceover's in civ4 (i got pig iron is my personal favorite). and i know your mod won't have the actual voiceovers that SMAC had. but i'm looking forward to it now that i found out you're working on it . good luck!

 

[woodelf]

Good job on that artwork woodelf! It does a good job capturing the feel of SMAC.

Thanks man (and Watiggi too). It's actually been quite fun.

 

[woodelf]

@woodelf.... Wow that sounds really complicated...Why not start with a smaller subset of units eg:

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pSjUHDnVkJ3iMFM1W37glDg
(read second and third column)

And use promotions to give bonus like reactor via promotions system eg

Free +1 movement after discovering fusion tech (same way that red cross works)

Once I get an entire chassis type done I'll see exactly how complex it is. Right now all I plan on doing is snapping the individual pieces together, saving all possibilities as nifs, and then dropping all of the dds files and nifs into one unit folder. It won't take up much space since nifs are 20-50k and the dds are 50-171k. Thanks for the spreadsheet though and I'll take a look at it.

We do plan on using promos and SAs for certain advancements, but I feel the reactors can be made graphically, at least so far.

 

[cvlowe]

I agree- it might be better to get a basic playable version out- which can be enhanced and bugs fixed from there.

Plus- never having played SMAC, I am interested in trying

 

[troyDoogle7]

are you going to release the other city artwork? I loved pouring over the city examples.... Can you add them to the graphics sections?

 

[woodelf]

We're going to save the remainder of the cityart until the first release. After that asioasioasio will upload it all.

 

[DarianRif]

Okay, I've been lurking for some time, but this idea just FORCED me to register and post a nice long "noob vomit".

Has anyone on the team right now perhaps read (or even purchased) the SMAC sourcebook for GURPS by Steve Jackson games. I've found it REALLY useful in getting a better look at life on Planet. Some of the ideas it has provided could be of use in this mod.

For example:

Eras:

Spoiler :

In a sense, man's history on Planet could have been split up into different eras (similar to the basic Civ game) where different priorities and lifestyles were prevelent. Just as the standard Civ game has the Ancient, Classical, Modern... etc... eras, this mod could have them as well.

Survival - "OH MY GOD!! The Unity is GONE! We're stuck here with only a fraction of our planned supplies! How are we going to survive!" This era (and the technologies in it) would be focused on pure survival. Getting the means and/or knowledge to actually survive in Planet's hostile environment. In this era, combat units would mainly be simple assets used to defend against Mind Worms or other hostile life-forms.

Expansion - "Ok, we're alive. Time to start building a nation." - With basic survival assured, this is the era where the factions begin to expand. Before, the construction of new bases was typically used to gain access to needed resources or relieve crowding in the existing bases. Now, the focus is an attempt to start turning Planet into the new home for mankind. This is also where the factions will typically first start coming to serious conflict with each other as they now have more time to spend on thier own ideologies. The first combat units meant for true war are now starting to be developed as these conflicts turn violent.

Extension - "We've been here a while. What else is still out there?" - Once most (if not all) of the available land on Planet was settled (if not developed) and a substitute for Planet's missing fossil fuels found, mankind began to consider moving back into space. This was a time of not just developing the means to explore space, but the nature of the life and the universe well. This era saw advances in computer technology, physics, economic theory, biology, and others. Combat technology of this time had naturally progressed, with the first Needlejets starting to see action. This era also marks when almost ALL the factions began to use Probe teams and other "Cold War" tactics in their conflicts (while before only 1 or 2 factions had ever really made much use of Probe team actions to any great extent).

Evolution - "So a genejack, an empath, and a cyborg walk into a bar..." - This era saw mankind not just obtain and exploit the resources of space, but of their new home and definition of "MAN." With multiple sub-species of homosapiens now becoming more common thanks to genetic engineering and bio-mechanics, man began to contemplate exactly what IS human. This era marks a renewed desire to study Planet itself, not out of a need to understand your enemy (as before) but out of genuine curisoty and the beliefs (of some) that Planet itself might just be "alive".

Ascension - "Hello, my name is HAL. How are you today, Dave?" - With mankind finally mastering the external environment around them, thinkers began to look inward. They began to take a scientific approach to what had before been purely philosophical concepts (such a fate, the soul, etc...). To help answer these questions, the first truely self-aware AI's were developed. In this time, more and more of mankind began to believe that Planet itself might provide a unique key to these puzzles.

Transcendece - "Now I lay me down to sleep, I pray the Planet my soul to keep." - The era marked the end of humanity as we know it. As the last few secrets of the universe revealed themselves, Planet began to reach the climax of its cycle of awareness. The line between man and AI was erased as braintaping allowed humans to BECOME AIs. Effective immortality could be obtained thanks to this technology combined with cloning and other bio/genetic technologies. Still, with all these assets, mankind still faced immenent destruction at the hands (so to speak) of the "awakening alien god." In a last ditch effort to survive, man agreed to merge with the vast Planetmind and become truly immortal.

Wow... didn't plan on writing that much.

Anyway, the point being that during the design phase of this mod, it might not be a bad idea to approach it with this concept of eras in mind. 6 phases of development on Planet. For example:

Units:

Spoiler :

Each era could see a number of "basic" units iconic of that era that are then upgraded (through the promotion system already described earlier in this thread) to better fit any individual needs or desires the player may have.

The "Survival" era would have the basic Laser Infantry (once lasers were discovered) that could be upgraded with new weapons or defenses once the appropriate technologies were discovered. Once a faction moves into the next era (from Survival to Exploration), the old unit might be replaced by a new unit iconic for that era (Laser Infantry become Gatling Laser Infantry once Gatling Lasers are researched) with some of the old upgrades possible and some new ones. Of course, some units, like Scouts, Colony Pods, Probe Teams, etc... will probably never change outside of gaining access to new upgrades and pretty much stay the same basic unit throughout the game.

You know, looking back over this, it's pretty much what Civ4 already does. It think the biggest difference would be that the basic iconic units of each era have little to no inherent bonuses (like ALL Archers have a bonus to city defense, wether you plan to use them for it or not). In this concept, the Laser Infantry might be strength 2 and that's it. If you have Industrial Base researched, you can give them a basic armor upgrade for +25% defense. Impact Weapons could give you the option of adding a +50% attack.

Anyway, enough rambling for now. These aren't the only things that popped into my head reading this thread, only the ones that screamed the loudest to be "LET OUT!!!".

 

[snipperrabbit!!]

First, welcome to CFC, DarianRif !

We greatly appreciate your interest for the mod. As it is not carved on the stone, I can tell you we are actually heading toward a "four eras" mod.

Survival - I hope a better name can be found
Expansion - sounds good
Extension - it sounds like it can be merged with the previous
Evolution - I hope a better name can be found
Ascension - it can be divided within the previous and subsequent eras
Transcendence - sounds good

For units, I will let another one answer. By the way, can you tell us more about this book ?

 

[Wodan]

Snipper:
Steve Jackson Games
Also, you can order it online. You can get it from Amazon though you'll pay more.

You could also go to your local game/hobby shop and ask them to order it for you (I seriously doubt they would have it in stock but you never know).

Wodan

 

[Impaler[WrG]]

Isn't it about time for this mod to have its own Sub forum? Or do you require a release of some sort before its officially 'not a vapor mod'

 

[Kael]

Isn't it about time for this mod to have its own Sub forum? Or do you require a release of some sort before its officially 'not a vapor mod'

It has one, I think its just private right now.

 

[Yakk]

Ooo. Instead of energy, the basic unit of currency should be (terrestial) biomass. This explains why the early game has a max-city-size problem which goes away as you tech up.

Era 1: Crashlanders.
Era 2: Awakening.
Era 3: Empire.
Era 4: Transendance.

Era 1: Your economy simply doesn't allow for having more than a handful of cities. Survival is questionable. Resources are scarce.

Era 1 ends with the ability to harness planet fungus and use them to fuel a mass expansion of your civilization.

Era 2: Planet Awakes. The expansion of human civilization quickly triggers an immune response from planet. Smaller civilizations either seek shelter from larger ones (maybe a weaker/shorter term form of vassalage: client state?), form alliances to surive (weaker/shorter term version of Perm. Alliance), or get overrun.

Era 3: Empire. Human technology dominates planet. The ability to build truely large-scale empires on land and sea becomes possible. The era fades away with the creation of hyper-technology.

Era 4: Transendence. Key technologies render having huge Empires relatively obsolete (think high-powered national wonders). Planet engages in another flowering with even more dangerous means, adapted from human biology and technology, which makes large empires hard to keep together. The suspicion that Planet is at least potentially intelligent becomes unquestionable, and the fear that Planet will eventually overwealm humanity (even in it's current advanced state) becomes validated. The race to save humanity on Planet is on.

So, game mechanics wise:
Crashlanders: Economic collapse past a handful of cities. Technologies that let you build more cities roll out slowly, as do technologies that let you find and exploit Planet resources.

Awakening: Planet (barbarian) units show up in more and more numbers. They attack relatively indiscriminately. A vassalage-like agreement that can be broken (client state), and an P.A.-like agreement that can be broken (alliance) become availiable, and are very profitable. Max civ. size goes from 4 to 10 to 14, with larger civs getting attacked by mass planet assaults.

Empire: Technology outpaces planet. True Vassalage and Assimilaton becomes availiable, with mega-empires covering the planet. This is the first stage in which a domination/conquest victory is possible.

Transendence: Units and buildsing that are limited on a per-civilization basis make large empires obsolete.

Ie:
"Nanoforge": +75/150/250/400 production, national wonder.
"Identity Nexus": +200/350/600/1000 lightbulbs.
"Gaia Project": +200/350/600/1000 $.
etc. Large empires are still useful, but small empires can compete.