Wrath of the AI

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Stories & Tales' started by Quintillus, Mar 8, 2009.

  1. IvanDolvich

    IvanDolvich Chieftain

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    @ Choxorn: Yeah, that was one of the sneaky tricks that Zerksees pulled in his come - from -behind game against a runaway AI. Those accounts are classics and would serve Quintilus well against the monster that he has created.
     
  2. TheOverseer714

    TheOverseer714 Overseer

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    I've given cities away for that reason or others, it is something the AI would never do, but in this game it makes a lot of sense. After all, you are the Intelligent, you can be smart, sneaky and treacherous.
     
  3. ChaosArbiter

    ChaosArbiter King

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    Of course, giving it away does have the possibility that the Talented will just declare war on whomever is the recipient anyway, and they'd get it that way.
     
  4. choxorn

    choxorn Watermelon Headcrab

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    The AI generally isn't smart enough to do that. They might get an RoP, though.
     
  5. templar_x

    templar_x usually walks his talks

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    i assume you mean the board game? i loved to play that with my friends as a teenager. we could go forever with negotiations off the board and planning the best moves on the board. and i remember how our parents hated it that we declared any room in the house a bargaining room. :lol:

    the game is already 50-some years old but still bears that fascination from its simple concept.

    templar_x
     
  6. Meteor Man

    Meteor Man En Route to M81

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    I used to want that board game sooooo bad! I've only seen one on Yahoo, and its very expensive. Sounds just as cool as the computer game!
     
  7. Quintillus

    Quintillus Archiving Civ3 Content Supporter

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    The Talented advances seemed to have slowed for a couple months, mystifying the Intelligent. Yet they soon came bounding over the trenches with a vengeance.

    Yet before they've reached our lines, diplomats come to the Prime Minister informing him of yet another trade embargo, this time between the Frisky and Talented. The Prime Minster assures the diplomats that he did believe them when they had earlier told him that these civilizations were evil.

    Less than a day later, news of more Talented-Frisky developments come: more war.

    That cements the Honest as our allies. Probably unfortunately for the Frisky, who I would conquer myself if it weren't for a couple dozen Talented units already on my borders.

    But when the Talented finally do arrive, it's a bloodbath. They attack blitzkrieg-style, first with waves upon waves of bombers.



    Seventeen bombers are counted in all, a drastic increase over last turn. Most target units; a few target resources. As I'll soon be losing my border, those resource-targeting missions only benefit me, in an unfortunate way.

    Despite desparate defences, my troops are inevitably forced back. The only plus is a few spread-out victories.





    Most of the time, our forces prove inferior.



    And we are left with a very bleak picture in 1705.



    The frontier from Grassy Coast all the way to Brucha's Commune is threatened. 35-40 Cavalry threaten Thunderfall and Brucha's Commune, an insurmountable force. A similar number of infantry forces are at Phoenix. Twenty-nine Cavalry are within range of Bright Future, still too many to have a realistic chance of defeating. Tobacco Junction and Grassy Coast face only a smattering of troops, some injured. They can be saved, and will be. Saving Bright Future would take a very successful coordinated effort and likely a miracle as well; in lieu of a decision on its future, the town council renamed it to the more dismal Dim Future. Phoenix was hopeless (but would, of course, rise from its ashes again), and it appeared Thunderfall and Brucha's Commune were as well. The primary mission would likely again be to delay the Talented advance; so far their infantry were being well hampered, with literally hundreds being spotted north of the jungle line from the cultural borders of Phoenix.

    Thrilled as the people of Tobacco Junction and Grassy Coast were that they weren't on the chopping block yet, the people of Dim Future argued that they should not be written off, either. Their cathedral, that of the great J.S. Bach, was worth attempting to save, they argued. MP Vandermark, of the Defender Party, became their spokesperson; indeed, as the Talented advanced, more and more people were joining the Defender Party, and great unhappiness was predicted if Dim Future and J.S. Bach's Cathedral were lost. A commission was set to work on determining if saving Bright Future was at all feasible, and delivered a report in a mere six days - the pressure of war can make even bureaucracies reasonably quick.

    The Prime Minister found this conclusion disappointing, but did not wish to throw away his forces on a near-hopeless defence. However, even if Dim Future was hopeless, the issue of whether to let the Cathedral fall into enemy hands remained. Some argued that destroying such a Wonder should not be done in any situation, and anyways, that its long-term value once recaptured would outweight the temporary benefits to the Talented. However, scorched-earth advocates argued that allowing any city to fall into enemy hands would only accelerate the fall of the Empire.

    After a fortnight of feverish debate, a decision was finally reached: Dim Future was lost, and The Fens was to be saved. Grassy Coast and Tobacco Junction would survive another turn; reinforcements would focus on the East where The Fens was.

    The battles began with our reinforcements hammering the Talented Cavalry by Grassy Coast.



    The combat goes about as expected, and the Talented forces are reduced. A round of drafting proceeded the battles, giving the two non-doomed cities the forces they needed, and allowing for a pillaging campaign elsewhere.



    The issue of what to do with the ten workers stuck in the middle of no-man's land then came up. Eight could be saved, but to do so would require building infrastructure, something we did not want to do. Nevertheless, the call was made to do so, as it was figured the Talented would bomb the wine again anyways.

    The commanders' focus then shifted to the west, where Brucha's Commune and Thunderfall were doomed. Both cities drafted a Rifleman; the one from Thunderfall pillaged a road while the one from Brucha's Commune retreated towards The Fens. One Rifleman who found himself stuck in the enemy's zone of attack retook a Barricade to at least give them a fight.



    At this point it was time for the civil engineers to get rail-building. If The Fens were to be defended, we'd need all the troops we could muster there. Unfortunately, when our first worker went to build a railroad, we noticed a button missing.



    No Iron! We had one source connected, but it was being exported to the Governors! And of course, we had just signed the deal last turn. Evidently one of sources had disappeared during the previous turn (later determined to be near Mineral Mountain), as no other sources were found anywhere in the Empire, or in the very-recently-Empire. So it was off to the negotiating table - fortunately I quickly found an acceptable deal.



    They're my ally against the Talented; with luck this will help them force the Talented off their landmass. Democracy is useless, but at least will prevent the AI from offering me it in the future.

    As my workers begin hammering away at a new rail line, one last Settler builds a city down south, Fin de Gloire. As the Sailors are already busily building cities, I'm lucky to grab this spot.



    Another city, Green Forest, is build to the east of Lonely Mountain, and Ruble is founded to replace Euro just east of the old city. Were we not falling in the north, we'd be doing just dandy thanks to our southern expansion.



    These new cities, however, were to be left defenceless - the Prime Minister had decided to issue the drastic measure of ordering all troops north towards The Fens to fight the Talented invasion. The railroads would prove crucial in reaching the destination in time.



    And then, all that was left was to sell our buildings and abandoned our treasured northern frontier.



    Sorry, I guess we're going over to Apolyton...



    :hmm: Looks like I broke an export deal somehow when I abandoned Dim Future.

    The sell-offs garner some additional money that I had intended to use to buy units, but I accidently click the end-turn button instead (that button really ought to have a confirmation...). Fortunately there were no critical moves left to be made, and the money will help with upgrade costs anyways. The AI begins churning away, and I get a new note before long:



    Poor Scientists. No one likes newfangled stuff these days.

    The Talented attack in a similar fashion to the last turn, sending in nearly two dozen bombers that decimate my forces first and then attacking on land.







    I score a few victories, and no cities fall, but the situation is clearly grim. I am quick to notice that their forces are heading towards my undefended cities along the western coast, namely Desert Edge, far more than The Fens. In a way this is good, giving me more time, but it's also bad, as my pillaging is doing poorly there.

    1710 begins with massive rioting - the people are unhappy over the abandonment of J.S. Bach's Cathedral. The scorched-earth policy is not winning friends - right now, we just hope it can win the war.

    Indeed, the Prime Minister has become very unpopular - a mere 45% of citizens approve of him at this juncture. Many cite the war as the cause for their unhappiness - and the Prime Minister couldn't agree more, especially with the recent loss of his opulent palace! River's Source, the new capital, is in a good and safe location, but is no comparison to the classic Thunderfall.
     
  8. Quintillus

    Quintillus Archiving Civ3 Content Supporter

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    (update above)

    I'm leaning quite heavily towards that path - the Frisky island looks like a good starting point, and the Urban/Utopian island a decent longer-term one (with far more resources). The challenge now is surviving long enough to be able to do that.

    That's actually a really good idea. Unfortunately I'd already played the 1700-1710 section on August 2nd, and as you'll see above I didn't do that. The Frisky might've been a good recipient for that - tried and true allies of the Talented that they'd be unlikely to betray. Oh well. No use crying over blown-up cathedrals.

    I may have to look that up...

    Yep, that's the game. Started another game of it yesterday and converted another four friends to Diplomacy fandom. Looking forward to playing it some more next weekend, too! :D

    I wanted to get it at the end of 2007, but the same problem arose. However, they reprinted it in 2008, and I was able to get my copy last December. You can find it on Amazon for just under $24 right now (Wizards of the Coast now owns Avalon Hill, according to Wikipedia). Definitely worth it if you think you'll be able to get together a party to play it - though don't expect to finish a game in one session!
     
  9. choxorn

    choxorn Watermelon Headcrab

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    Finally update! :woohoo:

    A shame you lost Thunderfall. Just don't lose my Oases, or you WILL DIE PAINFULLY. :p
     
  10. Slaughter

    Slaughter Initiate

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    Wohoo, update!

    This war is SO schizo-tech. The enemy begins attacking you with bombers, then their land offensive is done by Napoleonic Cavalry. :lol:

    Hope you can muster the necessary effort to drive them off. The Talented seems to be very powerful.
     
  11. Dumanios

    Dumanios MLG

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    Don't forget they have those silly English Ki-niggits!
     
  12. TheOverseer714

    TheOverseer714 Overseer

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    I give Quintillus credit for continuing to play, I would have conceded this a long time ago. If he does pull this off, this story will become legendary.
     
  13. Northen Wolf

    Northen Wolf Young Hunter

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    Fixed it for you :)
     
  14. Quintillus

    Quintillus Archiving Civ3 Content Supporter

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    1710 AD - Peace riots were stifling productivity throughout the Empire, much to the remainder of the government's chagrin. Didn't the fools people realize the government wanted peace as much as they did? To top it off, a huge debate had erupted over whether to rename the capital DanQ or MarkG - as no consensus could be reached, it was decided that the capital's name would have to remain River's Source.

    With no way to make peace, the government decided at last to implement a bread-and-circuses tax of 30% - far higher than it would've liked, but necessary to ensure the other half of the empire didn't start rioting in five years.

    Two towns were doomed this turn - Tobacco Junction and Desert's Edge. The amount of forces by each one was simply overwhelming. As such, their defenders would simply be sent east towards The Fens to help there.



    Grassy Coast, in the west, was not severely threatened, but there was a Cavalry outside the gates; as such, it was attacked.



    After it had received a solid thrashing from my Cavalry, the Musketman and Rifleman in the countryside began moving south, along with Tobacco Junction's garrison, who stopped to form a pillaging line.



    At this point the commander at Desert's Edge realized the opportunity to form a complete pillaging line of the type that hadn't been seen in a decade. Even better, the deserts would force their Cavalry to take the long path west to reach Coastal Cove, likely buying Occidental Slope an extra turn in the process. Finally, if we did it right, we could save a source of Incense in the middle of the desert, a valuable luxury that could be exported.



    With the pathway for the Talented advanced now interrupted, the issue of what to do with the doomed cities rose again. Among the more controversial propositions was to allow the Militarists or Seafarers to take official control of the cities, with a piecemeal contingent of their diplomatic corps running the city. Such an action would force the Talented to declare war on them to take the city, and would ensure that the Talented could not advance quickly if they opted not to declare war. The plan garnered significant consideration, and was nearly implemented, before the politicians who argued that the Talented would inevitably declare war on anyone receiving a city in such a way won the day. It wasn't like the Miliarists or Seafarers could hold a candle to the Talented in such a situation, either.



    The abandoning of the cities would give the Talented Cavalry a bit more room to work with, but they'd have had it after two moves in any case. Most importantly, they would not be able to bridge the gap to take Grassy Coast this turn, and would only be able to reach Coastal Cove next turn.

    In better news, thanks to the mass-movement system implemented in 1705, by the end of 1710 twenty-eight Cavalry, or 82% of our total, had reached The Fens. Joining them were seven defensive troops. This force was considered sufficient to defeat the first wave of Talented troops, although more troops, especially defensive ones, were heavily desired. One Cavalry was sent on a sortie to defeat the lead Talented Cavalry regiment.



    The sortie was successful; no others were made while the defences were prepared.

    Just when I thought the turn was over, I notice one minor oversight.



    Whoops. Those guys are kinda stuck. Or are they? The desert is safe! Grabbing as many canteens as they can, they run to the safety of the Musketman's square.

    With everything taken care of and an excess of gold, I turn science up to 30% for a turn, and end my turn.



    Well, lookey there. Glad to know they're on my side - I almost gave them a city! Immediately following, the two sign an alliance against the Hippophiliacs as well - and then the Governing! Prince Henry must have taken leave of his senses!



    Some potential allies I have! Well, this could be good - gives me an expansion place after this war ends.



    :hmm: MPP? I hope not - I want to beat up on the Militarists!



    Really? The only reason I didn't bring the Innovators into this was their weakness - let's hope the Utopians win against the Talented on the continent next door.



    Only eleven bombers are counted this turn; I think my retreat tactics may be putting some of them out of range. This is fortunate, as their navy is now arriving; six or seven Destroyers shelled Grassy Coast this turn as well. Had more Bombers been present, I may have lost the city; instead, my redliner is able to defeat their Cavalry.



    Elsewhere, the advance goes just as I'd hoped - all toward Coastal Cove!



    Note the Rifleman is on a Flood Plain, not a desert. Nonetheless, getting them to all head west is a huge victory.



    Now the Seafaring are at war with the Honest! What next?


    (I forgot to take a picture of the Civ3 screen :()

    Apparently, a history of the world - at a most inopportune moment! The Universalists being first is no surprise. What is a surprise is that I'm all the way down to 8th. I had indeed helped the Scientists and Aviators, but I didn't expect to fall that far! Oh well, at least I'm still on the list.

    In 1715, the war is more under control. I count seventy-two Cavalry north of Coastal Cove; that city is lost. But all's calm on the eastern front.



    Almost eerily so. There should be more enemy troops there! At least it'll give me time to reinforce The Fens even more, as well as improve my rail network. Meanwhile, in the west, there's just a bit of pillaging left to do.



    With that, Desert Mine is safe and the Talented expansion routes are limited. Three passages across the mountains do still exist, but all three are guarded by troops ready to pull the fuses, light the mines, and blow up the roads just ahead of the Talented advance.

    Some more pillaging occurs just north of Coastal Cove to slow the Talented advance towards Occidental Slope and Leafy Village. They've no choice but to advance this way, so it may as well be slow.



    Coastal Cove is abandoned, leaving the stranded defenders of Grassy Coast to sort out their fate. Only one thing is sure, and that is that it's bleak.



    Some effective pillaging is the best that can be hoped for. The redlined Cavalry in the city sets out first to do just that.



    Jackpot! That stack is actually mostly Knights, along with three Cavalry and two Horsemen, but this appears to be a main supply line, and these units at least will be slowed. My Cavalry moves in and pillages their path. He then moves one square farther, and sees some enemy Infantry in a Barricade.



    These Infantry are set to attack The Fens in 1742 - likely one turn too soon if greater numbers are around. I expect to be able to get peace in 1745 at the earliest, and could not defeat one of their stacks of infantry doom. There remains at least one option - to sacrifice some Cavalry on a pillaging mission. Unappealing as it is, it may be necessary - their Infantry are currently unstoppable. My Cannons and Trebuchets are advancing, but theirs is a hopeless battle.

    But what if I send out a Cavalry only to discover there are no other enemies out there to worry about? Fortunately, I have sufficient workers to extend my rail network and improve my ability to scout into the fog.



    Nothing thus far. But it's clear we need to see farther. I decide, however, that we can safely wait one turn - even if their Infantry advance towards The Fens, we'll have sufficent time to pillage.

    With that, we expect the action of the turn is over - but the ISS Greek Fire scores a surprising victory in bombardment!



    Who'd've guessed it? Good thing we still control this eastern shore.

    In 1717, the Frisky find themselves facing an alliance of the Urban and Innovators - certainly enough to crush them. They may soon be toast. The Honourable, meanwhile, approach me with the suggestion of an embargo against the Sailors. I agree - they're too close to the Talented. I then suggest an embargo against the Talented, which is heartily agreed to.

    And as if to justify the embargo, the Sailors then sign an alliance against the Utopians. Fortunately they're too weak for it to matter much.

    Some interesting events happen during the Universalists' turn. First, their bombers head south and start bombarding Commercial shipping.



    They're re-basing to Stern! My out-of-ranging techniques have been working, and it's the only base left that's useful to them. If I could take it in a couple turns, I could deal a blow to their Air Force.



    And they're heading east in the north. This is a surprise - I'd expected them to wipe out the west first. Apparently, my pillaging campaign was too successful. The good news is, this buys me a turn or two for the western cities to produce. The bad news is, if I don't turn them back to the west, things are looking bleak in the east.



    Unfortunate. I could've used that. I wouldn't have finished it in time even had this war not occured, but it's still inconvenient that they obtained it.



    The five most-advanced Cavalry must be taken out, or allowed to attack Hunt Linn/The Fens. The former has very little value, so plausibly I could just let them attack my Riflemen in The Fens. The choice is difficult, but in the end it is decided to let them attack The Fens with their low numbers - they cannot do any damage yet. The Cavalry, of which we currently have 44, will be saved for countering their main force of about seventy. The Riflemen won't be as much use against that force, anyways, and our Cannons will be able to help here on the defence.

    Hunt Linn is abandoned, in hopes of diverting the advance, and medium-strength garrisons are installed at Swampy Plantation and Choxorn's Oases, ensuring that the easy advance for the Talented is in the west. River's Source, Desert Mine, and Dromon Delta, one line further back beyond Choxorn's Oases and not actually in any danger, receive token garrisons.
     
  15. Quintillus

    Quintillus Archiving Civ3 Content Supporter

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    At this point my concerns switch to happiness - even at 30% we are now experiencing difficulties. The Utopians do have excess Gems to offer, and I seek to acquire those. First, however, I seek to renegotiate some deals, particularly with the Urban.



    These deals were good in the day - now I suspect I could do better with all my lost land. So I cancel them, and negotiate again.

    It turns out those Wines I was exporting were my last ones - it makes it more difficult to work out a deal now if I don't export them, but it sure will help with happiness! And in the end, I achieve a deal with almost all the benefits, and keeping the Wine.



    Essentially I lose 3 GPT to keep the wine - a very cheap luxury gain. The deal is struck, and is a great boon to happiness, essentially canceling a level of war weariness.

    I then renegotiate my silk-importing deal with the Hippophiliacs, saving 4 GPT. I am saddened to discover I only have 4 turns remaining in my Spice-importing deal with the Scientists, but by then I should be near peace.

    You may be wondering at this point how the Scientists haven't been obliterated by the Talented. I'm surprised by this myself; it seems the only plausible explanation is that the Talented haven't really bothered with them. They've yet to lose a city; even their infrastructure looks untouched. Either the Talented decided they were too weak to worry about early on, or my undefended cities are luring them and saving the Scientists.

    Resuming some trading, I strike a deal to import Gems from the Utopians for Incense plus 22 GPT. It's more than I'd like to pay, but it's still cheaper than another entertainment tax increase.

    By the end of this turn my army is pretty much upgraded to modern standards; I have 44 Cavalry, 36 Rilemen, and 11 Cannons (plus a few captured). 3 Musketmen, 12 Pikemen, and 2 Spearmen remain to be upgraded, as do a handful of Catapults. I still have 7 Swordsmen to 3 Medeival Infantry, but I consider that a lowest-priority upgrade - the Medieval Infantry won't do much more good than the Swordsmen, anyways, whereas the Riflemen are a big step up and the Cannons provide value, too.

    The Seafaring get ganged up on by the Innovators and Urban in 1722; they'll be under my sword soon after the Talented war ends anyway. In a more surprising move, the Cultured declare war on my longtime friends the Commercial. The war is pointless, but still indicates that perhaps the Cultured are shifting towards the Talented side. They then declare war on the Urban, all but telling whose side they are on. Not a smart move.

    Another odd event occurs during the Talented turn in 1722: they bombard a near-useless stack.



    Even if they had enough planes to take out all the infantry, it wouldn't have done them much good - they were too far away to get the artillery. It may have slowed me down a bit, but with 3 planes, they didn't do much damage.

    On the west coast, their Destroyers bombard a Musketman defending a mountain passageway - they also take out the Barricade he is on (reducing it to a Fortress), but it will do them no good. My plan has long been to fall back and pillage the tile behind the Barricade, anyways.

    By The Fens, the Talented Cavalry are happily heading west. However, their Infantry continue their approach, with some reaching the tile one NW of the Saltpeter, close enough to threaten The Fens before the war is over.




    One Cavalry decides to try its luck against The Fens.



    It is defeated without difficulty, and forced to retreat. A Cavalry will finish it off next turn.

    The Commercial reach Talented borders for the first time in the war this turn near Stern, but are mowed down by Talented machine guns.



    They remain Furious with me, and the Talented Infantry remains alive. At least they aren't fighting me.

    As the calendar turns over to 1725, no matter how you count, it, we've made it halfway to the 10-turn minimum peace limit. We might survive yet!
     
  16. choxorn

    choxorn Watermelon Headcrab

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    W00t Update!

    Any chance of a world map to see just how much empty space there is now?
     
  17. Quintillus

    Quintillus Archiving Civ3 Content Supporter

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    Good idea. Here's the map.

     
  18. choxorn

    choxorn Watermelon Headcrab

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    The Talented STILL have their cities on the Utopia/Urban/Innovator Island?

    Oh well, at least they haven't been attacking the scientists, or recolonizing any of that land you abandoned. Heck, you might even be able to re-settle all or most of it when the war ends.
     
  19. Land_Shark93

    Land_Shark93 Chieftain

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    yeah if the talented are in a war I think the AI doesnt build Settlers... alteast thats what I experienced in my other games... they wont build settlers during war time. so if you make peace and they are still at war you could reclaim all that lost land. I think. :D
     
  20. Quintillus

    Quintillus Archiving Civ3 Content Supporter

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    Yep, they've still got those cities. But they haven't gained any land there. I'm still hoping they'll lose that eventually.

    Resettling definitely is a possibility. I've got four Settlers ready in The Fens and probably will pump out another few before too long. Once the war ends, it'll be all-out road-building to recolonize the area, provided the Talented don't snap up the land.

    Having played a few more turns, and considering Civ3 games I've played in the past, I doubt that. They won't send the Settlers right next to my border in wartime (most likely), but I suspect they are building some. Not that I don't have plans to deal with that.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Other important items: University has begun again, so much free time has vanished. Also, I started several Civ3 mod games shortly before university started. As a result, expect updates to be very sporadic. Also, Photobucket changed their bandwidth/storage limits in the negative directions mere hours (minutes?) after I made the last update. As a result, I'm using in excess of 102% of the alloted storage space, and should I at some point give many updates in a short time, bandwidth will likely become an issue as well. Since I'm cheap and have a very low income (university student, remember?), I'll be searching out other free alternatives (not ImageShack, their ads on non-direct-linked content annoy me so I don't want to use them), and this may also cause a slight delay. Googlepages will suffice in the short-term, but if you use any particularly good photo hosting sites or file hosting sites that work for direct-linked pictures, let me know.
     

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