WTO protesters still think they can make a differance.

h4ppy

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Well it's that time again, another WTO meeting and the anti-globalization people come out of the woodwork to throw bottles at policemen. Here is the link: http://www.comcast.net/News/BUSINES...ews/a406a2c5-4fa0-4624-9c37-ac9ac171af82.html

And here is the article:

CANCUN, Mexico - As World Trade Organization ministers from around the world check into high-rise beach hotels this week, protesters meet in ramshackle offices and tent communities, fighting over how they will wage war against free trade.

The tangle of union members, Zapatista rebel sympathizers, anarchists, environmentalists and farmers cannot agree on protest tactics against the WTO, which they consider a mouthpiece for powerful nations and wealthy corporations.

But the 15,000 demonstrators expected to flood this Mexican resort agree on one thing: They want to shut the meeting down.

"We've been fighting over the goal in meetings all this week," said Jessica Pupovac of the Washington-based Rights Action, a human rights group. "Some people are flat-out scared of the Mexican police."

The 146-member WTO is striving to complete a new treaty meant to boost the world economy by further reducing barriers to trade. Yet, going into Wednesday's meeting, delegates have missed a series of negotiating deadlines and acknowledge they can only hope to cobble together a loose framework for liberalizing agricultural trade.

Most of the protesters here are peaceful. But the more than 200 groups here include Mexican activists who took several public officials hostage last year and sunk President Vicente Fox's plans to build a new airport outside Mexico City.

The situation could be reminiscent of the WTO meeting four years ago in Seattle, when clashes between protesters and police and arguments between WTO members helped sink the attempt to start a new round of talks.

While that was considered a major setback for the WTO, it gave birth to a global protest movement that has grown from angry e-mails between individuals to a complex network of nonprofit organizations and other groups.

In San Francisco, a handful of people have dedicated themselves to full-time activism, supporting themselves with donations collected through a so-called "Adopt an Activist" campaign.

While the amorphous movement represents a variety of causes, it is unified in its concern that unfettered capitalism is widening the gap between rich and poor _ and that multinational corporations wield too much power and need to be held more accountable.

"The lobbyists have sold the politicians some very expensive solutions," said Delight Stone, of Bend, Ore., who traveled to Cancun to work on an "eco-village," an environmentally friendly tent city set up in a soccer field facing a Wal-Mart store.

"We will pay for it. We just haven't gotten the bill yet."

The anti-globalization movement has had its ups and downs since Seattle.

Activists were unable to come up with the necessary money or resources to organize protests in the remote deserts of Doha, Qatar, where WTO members finally launched a new round of trade negotiations in 2001. That meeting also came two months after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks.

"There was obviously a chill that went through the movement," said Jason Mark, spokesman for the human rights group Global Exchange.

However, the U.S.-led war in Iraq fueled a global peace movement that built upon the work of the anti-globalization activists and recruited new members.

"The peace movement is what put me out in the streets," Stone said.

The movement's first planned march has little to do with the WTO. Protesters on Sunday will target a Cancun aquatic park criticized internationally for importing nearly 30 dolphins from the Solomon Islands.

The first big day of protests will be Tuesday, a day after busloads of students and other activists arrive from all over Mexico and a day before the meeting's official start.

The city has prepared for the worst, with workers clearing the resort of truckloads of loose rocks that could serve as ammunition for angry protests.

Two Mexican naval ships are parked in the aquamarine waters off Cancun's famous white-sand beaches and barricades surround the meeting site at the convention center, in the heart of Cancun's so-called "party center."

Protesters _ camped miles away on the mainland, in Cancun city's center _ will be kept away. There is only one road down the narrow peninsula leading to the meeting site, and police likely will block it if protesters try to march down it.

Well I will be watching on TV, last years meetings turned out pretty intresting.
 
If protestors held more rational views, there would likely be no problem in influencing these organizations. Instead, it seems as if radical Marxist and anti-U.S. movements have poisoned any idea of there being a reasonable change in economic policies.
 
Originally posted by rmsharpe
If protestors held more rational views, there would likely be no problem in influencing these organizations. Instead, it seems as if radical Marxist and anti-U.S. movements have poisoned any idea of there being a reasonable change in economic policies.

Those protests are very unfortunate circumstances indeed. Their behaviour is only inspiration for the world to turn them a deaf ear.

I'm not big on globalisation myself, but am resigned to it as an inevitability. These protesters should be more focused on their own governments and how they behave in a new globalised world.
 
Globalization is too marginal a field - I mean that not too many people will come out against it, because too many [of the people that matter, not "third-world ****"] have much to gain from it.

What they should focus on are the extortionary loans... the continent of Africa as a whole is paying more interest on loans than it makes in income. They should all default, and the IMF and World Bank should be put on trial for crimes against humanity.
 
Originally posted by Pontiuth Pilate
Globalization is too marginal a field - I mean that not too many people will come out against it, because too many [of the people that matter, not "third-world ****"] have much to gain from it.

What they should focus on are the extortionary loans... the continent of Africa as a whole is paying more interest on loans than it makes in income. They should all default, and the IMF and World Bank should be put on trial for crimes against humanity.

Why should it be the IMf and World Bank's fault that those countries have pisspoor leaders and economic plans. Why should the IMF and World Bank be forced to pay for these country's poor financial plans and squandering of money.
 
If I could I'd be other their with the protesters. Hopefully, when I am able to afford the travel costs, in the future I will be able to go to such protests. I fully intend to!

I hope they suceed in shutting that meeting down!
 
Originally posted by h4ppy


Why should it be the IMf and World Bank's fault that those countries have pisspoor leaders and economic plans. Why should the IMF and World Bank be forced to pay for these country's poor financial plans and squandering of money.
Actually, if you did some research, you'd find that the IMF and the world bank are the ones who actually invent these pisspoor economic plans.

The IMF and the world bank dictate these country's financial plans.

So, it is their ****ing fault!
 
Originally posted by ComradeDavo
If I could I'd be other their with the protesters. Hopefully, when I am able to afford the travel costs, in the future I will be able to go to such protests. I fully intend to!

I hope they suceed in shutting that meeting down!

Why waste your time and money on a protest that is bound to fail.(The police have definantly made plans to keep the rioters away form the main buildings where the protests are taking place)

P.S. they will never suceed in shuting the meetings down. I really don't see why you would want to stop free trade, it really helps some workers get jobs.
 
Originally posted by h4ppy


Why waste your time and money on a protest that is bound to fail.(The police have definantly made plans to keep the rioters away form the main buildings where the protests are taking place)

P.S. they will never suceed in shuting the meetings down. I really don't see why you would want to stop free trade, it really helps some workers get jobs.
Thats the kind of attidue the ruling classes love.

Protesting has closed down meetings before, and it draws massive attention to the movement and helps raise awareness of the plight of poor people.

'Free trade' is dominated by the rich contries, it's swung in their favour. I hope for fair trade, where all countries have an equal standing. At the moment, rich countries are gettign richer, and the poor countries gettign poorer.
 
Originally posted by ComradeDavo
Thats the kind of attidue the ruling classes love.

Protesting has closed down meetings before, and it draws massive attention to the movement and helps raise awareness of the plight of poor people.

'Free trade' is dominated by the rich contries, it's swung in their favour. I hope for fair trade, where all countries have an equal standing. At the moment, rich countries are gettign richer, and the poor countries gettign poorer.

In the past few years the meetings became better planned and the meetings continued. Actually the protests make the protesters look like treehugging idiots. Not many people know or care about what you guys want because it is not what they want. Free trade doesn't give rich countries an advantage it gives poor countries with no minimum wage an advantage. Even if it did, I life in a rich country, so I would not care if we get an advantage.
 
Hmmmmm, next year they should hold the meeting on Air force one that way no one can walk out of the meeting;), not to mention the protesters wouldn't be a problem:D Unless the can fly.
 
Originally posted by h4ppy


In the past few years the meetings became better planned and the meetings continued. Actually the protests make the protesters look like treehugging idiots. Not many people know or care about what you guys want because it is not what they want. Free trade doesn't give rich countries an advantage it gives poor countries with no minimum wage an advantage. Even if it did, I life in a rich country, so I would not care if we get an advantage.

Free trade doesn't give anyone in particular an advantage, but the problem is that the current system isn't as free as it should be. The West is quite prepared to call for 'free trade'without actually opening its own borders to imports from the Third World. As such, the industrialized countries are giving free trade a bad name.
I agree that the protestors tend to obscure the actually quite valid objections to the WTO modus operandi by their displays, but we shouldn't forget that they do actually have a quite valid point -what we believe to be 'free trade'isn't always, and it isn't always to the advantage of everyone either.

Originally posted by Pontiuth Pilate

Actually, if you did some research, you'd find that the IMF and the world bank are the ones who actually invent these pisspoor economic plans.

True, up to a point ( the blame lies more with the IMF than with the World Bank, which is more concerned with microeconomic and developmental issues). The IMF seems to live in a world where abstract macroeconomic models make sense - as such, they're prepared to focus on forcing developing countries to cut their budgets even at the expense of spending on education or social services, which is often a recipe for disaster. It seems though that they're wisening up lately.
 
I need help in understanding the protestors. To me it just seems like a big party, for commies and anarchist (haters). I would also like to go, because it seems like a lot of fun, smoking weed and screaming for justice and whatnot. Can anyone answer these questions, PLZ!


What do these protestors want???

Is it more protectionist policies for every nation on earth, to stop Global Trading???

What is fair "FREE TRADE", is this the elimination of tariffs???

Do they want more aid (money) to the poor countries, instead of these loans???

What about the elimination of subsidies (I need help on the spelling!)???
 
I see it as a small revolution and necessity since people are aware what WTO is about: A modern exploitation of 3rd world. Or 3rd dimension of exploitation: not only goods but using cheap workforce. They don't want to work hard for $2/hr for an US manager 250-pound monster.
 
Why should it be the IMf and World Bank's fault that those countries have pisspoor leaders and economic plans. Why should the IMF and World Bank be forced to pay for these country's poor financial plans and squandering of money.

Get a clue. The IMF and WB are ignoring 3rd-worlders biggest potential, their human capital. By forcing the privatization of certain industries [water, for instance] where the community system was working just fine, JUST so that a short-term profit can be garnered to pay off a debt in the short term, these orgs are depriving the nation of the ability to send children to school, or provide other social services - again, because what was once free or cheap now has to be paid for hand over fist - meaning that in the long term they are just running the country into the ground.

Actually, if you did some research, you'd find that the IMF and the world bank are the ones who actually invent these pisspoor economic plans.

Damn straight. And they aren't pisspoor at all. They do an excellent job from the banker's point of view: they generate some cash in the short term, and in the long term ensure that the country in question will continue to remain dependent on the organizations; ie, in bondage. This is exactly what the IMF WANTS.
 
Hurrumph

It would be fandoobliastic if the IMF and WTO encouraged free trade in the purest sense of the word.

But since the protesters initiated violence, they are in the wrong and their opinions no longer count.
 
Originally posted by h4ppy


In the past few years the meetings became better planned and the meetings continued. Actually the protests make the protesters look like treehugging idiots. Not many people know or care about what you guys want because it is not what they want. Free trade doesn't give rich countries an advantage it gives poor countries with no minimum wage an advantage. Even if it did, I life in a rich country, so I would not care if we get an advantage.
'Treehugging idiots'....how very diplomatic of you. A typical right wing elitist attidude if ever I saw one.

As for that last sentance - maybe you should try actually giving a **** about someone else for once.

Damn straight. And they aren't pisspoor at all. They do an excellent job from the banker's point of view: they generate some cash in the short term, and in the long term ensure that the country in question will continue to remain dependent on the organizations; ie, in bondage. This is exactly what the IMF WANTS.
Indeed. Also, when a country wants to join these organisations they actually make them reduce public spending on things like school and hospitals, and force them to put these things in the hands of profit hungry corparations.
But since the protesters initiated violence, they are in the wrong and their opinions no longer count.
In alot of cases, the police iniate violence by using heavy hand tatics which then escalate teh situation. The images that appear on TV are the ones the capitalists want us all to see, of what happends after this provacation. Personally, if I saw a cop spraying pepper spray over protestors sitting in the road (I have seen such footage before) or hitting them with battons and firing rubber bullets, then i'd be inclined to throw a few rocks their way. I speak just for me of course, I guess it depends on your opinion of these matters.
 
I guess the idea of nonviolent resistance has exited the minds of any of these "protestors" (though once they become violent, I would consider them inciting riots.)
 
Originally posted by newfangle
Hurrumph

It would be fandoobliastic if the IMF and WTO encouraged free trade in the purest sense of the word.

But since the protesters initiated violence, they are in the wrong and their opinions no longer count.

So the IMF and WTO are not inciting violence through their policy of 'creative destruction'?
 
Originally posted by ComradeDavo

'Treehugging idiots'....how very diplomatic of you. A typical right wing elitist attidude if ever I saw one.

In alot of cases, the police iniate violence by using heavy hand tatics which then escalate teh situation. The images that appear on TV are the ones the capitalists want us all to see, of what happends after this provacation. Personally, if I saw a cop spraying pepper spray over protestors sitting in the road (I have seen such footage before) or hitting them with battons and firing rubber bullets, then i'd be inclined to throw a few rocks their way. I speak just for me of course, I guess it depends on your opinion of these matters.

It might not be diplomatic but it is true, many of the people are hippies that never grew up. "Oh nos, the evil capitalists are not showing my side of the story, they are evil." <-- A typical left wing commie attitude if I ever saw one. Do you know why they were sitting in the road? the reason is to disrupt traffic, thus they are breaking the law and should be punished. Truth be told they are lucky, 100 years ago the police would have used real bullets instead of rubber ones. You go and throw rocks you hypocrite, it is typical of people at these protests to preach peace and love but they realized they will be forced to move and they pick up the nearest rock and chuck it at a cop.

P.S.
But the more than 200 groups here include Mexican activists who took several public officials hostage last year
 
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