WW2-Global

[allin1joe]

I would agree on the railroad and air power comments. Although I am running over the Russians with just ground and artillery units at this point with Germany (demi-god), air power has always played a very large part in my game strategy whether I played with the US, Japan or Germany. Also, air power is what seems to have crippled the Russian offensive vs Britian in Grizx's game. Perhaps assigning some units anti air capabilities? Maybe artillery and/or tank units? That would make it so that the stacks the AI are sending against you aren't just easy targets (since I never see mobile AA being sent with AI's stacks).

 

[eaglefox]

I would agree on the railroad and air power comments. Although I am running over the Russians with just ground and artillery units at this point with Germany (demi-god), air power has always played a very large part in my game strategy whether I played with the US, Japan or Germany. Also, air power is what seems to have crippled the Russian offensive vs Britian in Grizx's game. Perhaps assigning some units anti air capabilities? Maybe artillery and/or tank units? That would make it so that the stacks the AI are sending against you aren't just easy targets (since I never see mobile AA being sent with AI's stacks).

Let's not forget however, that any changes made to a unit to make it better ends up helping the human player a lot more than it helps the computer because we keep devicing new startegies. giving tanks AA capabilities will give the humans an even bigger advantage over the AI in the end. We don't need anymore help. We should be thinking of something that only the AI can use to its benefit. Unfortunately that IS the hard part in making any scenario.

 

[Rocoteh]

rocoteh,

I mentioned this a few pages back but had it in a reply to another posting and hadn't heard you comment on it. So, here it is again.

"On that note, this is my second game and I am finding again that the whole war can be won with air power alone. However, I am trying to "limit" my use of air but I am starting to think that maybe implementing or adding tons of AA to the AI would even things out a bit. This might be a good idea for the German Version. Like England could just get littered with AA in its cities and Russia could have a good amount as well. hell give it to everyone! except maybe N. Africa!

small after thought, tons of AA is the idea but strategically place it to facilitate moving game flow on an appropriate path."

Just an idea to stop or hinder the "sure fire" way to win.



thanks,
jb

oljb007,

Yes, of course AI should have a lot of AA added in the special version.
However if one is very disturbed by incompetent play from AI,
I think the best solution is to join a multi-player game.

Rocoteh

 

[eaglefox]

its is becoming more and more clear to me that the we can make the AI better only when rocoteh makes his special AI versions. perhaps instead of working on version 1.9, you should just implement all the suggested changes and ideas into the special AI version and just release those.

any changes made to the current version(s) has the undesirable side-effect of helping humans in the end a lot more than they help the AI.

 

[oljb007]

its is becoming more and more clear to me that the we can make the AI better only when rocoteh makes his special AI versions. perhaps instead of working on version 1.9, you should just implement all the suggested changes and ideas into the special AI version and just release those.

any changes made to the current version(s) has the undesirable side-effect of helping humans in the end a lot more than they help the AI.

I would have to disagree just cause I have see the changes since 1.3/1.5 to now. The changes that are being made lately really only affect the mathmatics behind the AI decision making. Which have little impact on the way a real person plays.

I do agree with you though about wanting to see the AI special version!

 

[oljb007]

oljb007,

Yes, of course AI should have a lot of AA added in the special version.
However if one is very disturbed by incompetent play from AI,
I think the best solution is to join a multi-player game.

Rocoteh

could AA have a zone of control/operational area like fighter planes that patrol an "area" thus increasing their ability to cover their advancing units?

"However if one is very disturbed by incompetent play from AI,
I think the best solution is to join a multi-player game."

I hope you are not taking offense to my suggestions! I am completely aware of the limitations with which you are dealing and am by no means trying to imply anything on your part.

I got a lot of loose change here so I am giving it out 2 cents at a time!

 

[oljb007]

I would agree on the railroad and air power comments. Although I am running over the Russians with just ground and artillery units at this point with Germany (demi-god), air power has always played a very large part in my game strategy whether I played with the US, Japan or Germany. Also, air power is what seems to have crippled the Russian offensive vs Britian in Grizx's game. Perhaps assigning some units anti air capabilities? Maybe artillery and/or tank units? That would make it so that the stacks the AI are sending against you aren't just easy targets (since I never see mobile AA being sent with AI's stacks).

what if AA had area of control like fighters?

 

[Rocoteh]

its is becoming more and more clear to me that the we can make the AI better only when rocoteh makes his special AI versions. perhaps instead of working on version 1.9, you should just implement all the suggested changes and ideas into the special AI version and just release those.

any changes made to the current version(s) has the undesirable side-effect of helping humans in the end a lot more than they help the AI.

eaglefox,

Target date for version 1.9 is late May.

Release date for the special AI version is hopefully
within one week from now.

Rocoteh

 

[eaglefox]

what if AA had area of control like fighters?

area of control is given to the fighters cause they could fly hundreds of kilometers, complete their missions and come back. it would be unrealistic to give AA an area of control especially since there were no AA missiles in WWII. flaks have very short horizontal range.

 

[eaglefox]

eaglefox,

Target date for version 1.9 is late May.

Release date for the special AI version is hopefully
within one week from now.

Rocoteh

oh ok. wow that's great! are you going to release AI versions for all the major players before the release of version 1.9?

 

[Rocoteh]

could AA have a zone of control/operational area like fighter planes that patrol an "area" thus increasing their ability to cover their advancing units?

"However if one is very disturbed by incompetent play from AI,
I think the best solution is to join a multi-player game."

I hope you are not taking offense to my suggestions! I am completely aware of the limitations with which you are dealing and am by no means trying to imply anything on your part.

I got a lot of loose change here so I am giving it out 2 cents at a time!

oljb007,

On AA with patrol area: It will not work if they also shall function
as ground units.

No offense taken. I only want to point out that there is a limit
for what can be achieved with a not to smart AI.

Rocoteh

 

[Rocoteh]

It´s not unrealistic. Japan and Germany used enslaved workers to build railroads during the war. In fact, Germany had workers from allied countries like Rumania and Bulgaria working in railroads. Soviet Union also had enslaved workers to build railroads, the ones that went to the GULAG.

I guess US, Great Britain and France didn´t have that sort of thing, but I really don´t know.

Hamah,

However the problem is this:

1 turn in WW2-Global represents 1 week.
With regard to railroads there are no quantity-aspect in Civ 3.

For example you can move the whole German army around by rail
in one week. In reality Germany only had capacity to move a few
divisions per week with rail.

Rocoteh

 

[Rocoteh]

oh ok. wow that's great! are you going to release AI versions for all the major players before the release of version 1.9?

eaglefox,

It depends on how players will react one the first AI-version.

Rocoteh

 

[eaglefox]

Hey rocoteh, regarding the Soviet IS-1 and IS-2 tanks. the IS-1 should have more attack power than the Panzer IVh, and the IS-2 should I think be more closer to the Tiger tank. I am not sure but I think IS-1 was designed as an answer to the Panther tanks of Germany and the IS-2 was designed to combat the Tiger. There was also a IS-3 designed to combat the king tiger tanks and was the most powerful tank of World War 2.

Comparisons:

Panzer IVh:
Armament: 75 mm Gun, MG 7.92 mm
Crew: 5
Armor (max.): 50 mm
Speed (max.): 40 km/hr
Dimensions: 5.93 x 2.88 x 2.68 m
Weight: 23.6 ton

Jagdpanther:
Armament: 88 mm antitank gun, MG 7.92 mm
Crew: 5
Armor (max.): 100 mm
Speed (max.): 46 km/hr
Dimensions: 6.86 x 3.28 x 2.51 m
Weight: 45.5 ton

Jagdtiger:
Armament: 128mm Pak 44 L/55 gun
Crew: 6
Armor (max.): ??? mm (more than jagdpanther though)
Speed (max.): 17 km/hr
Dimensions: 7.26 x 3.65 x 2.95 m
Weight: 70.60 ton

Panther:
Armament: 75 mm Gun, 3 x MG 7.92 mm
Crew: 5
Armor (max.): 110 mm
Speed (max.): 46 km/hr
Dimensions: 6.88 x 3.40 x 2.98 m
Weight: 45.5 ton

Tiger:
Armament: 88 mm Gun, MG 7.92 mm
Crew: 5
Armor (max.): 100 mm
Speed (max.): 38 km/hr
Dimensions: 8.45 x 3.40 x 2.95 m
Weight: 56 ton

King Tiger:
Armament: 88 mm Gun, 2 x MG 7.92 mm
Crew: 5
Armor (max.): 180 mm
Speed (max.): 38 km/hr
Dimensions: 7.2 x 3.6 x 3.09 m
Weight: 68 ton

IS-1:
Armament: 85 mm Gun, MG 7.62 mm
Crew: 4
Armor (max.): 160 mm
Speed (max.): 40 km/hr
Dimensions: 8.32 x 3.25 x 2.90 m
Weight: 46.0 ton

IS-2:
Armament: 122 mm Gun
Crew: 4
Armor (max.): 160 mm
Speed (max.): 37 km/hr
Dimensions: 9.9 x 3.09 x 2.73 m
Weight: 46.0 ton

IS-3:
Armament: 122 mm Gun
Crew: 4
Armor (max.): 200 mm
Speed (max.): 40 km/hr
Dimensions: 6.67 x 3.20 x 3.43 m
Weight: 45.8 ton

although the pather seems to have more armour than the tiger, i think the germans used better quality steel for the tiger tanks. this is the link i used:
http://www.military.cz/panzer/index_en.htm

 

[Dazz_G]

Hamah,

However the problem is this:

1 turn in WW2-Global represents 1 week.
With regard to railroads there are no quantity-aspect in Civ 3.

For example you can move the whole German army around by rail
in one week. In reality Germany only had capacity to move a few
divisions per week with rail.

Rocoteh

This is pretty much what I was trying to say ... I'm well aware of the Axis using POWs to build railroads but for the most part the benefit of this was pretty localised i.e. it didn't enable the Japanese for example to uproot its entire army and head of to France.

Rocoteh has already mentioned a 300-400 % increase in worker time ... I would also be in favour of reducing the distance rails can take you in one turn ... 10 squares per turn for example.

Perhaps even remove the ability to build rail in Mountains, and maybe Hills too due to the effect building them has on shield output ... another thing we humans can take advantage of but the AI tends to use sporadically.

 

[Bob1475]

On the AA discussion players should look at building Airports and AA batteries instead of FLAK units for defense of cities. In this scenario Airports cost only 50 and the AA battery 80 while FLAK units cost 150. Given the superiority of interception of an AA battery vs even four stacked AA units this is a no brainer. Build these in your front-line cities and you don't need FLAK except perhaps for units on the move. But AI seems to like to hit cities and some armor units come with there own AA.

Rocoteh - you may want to either tone down the effectiveness of the AA Battery or increase cost.

 

[oljb007]

On the AA discussion players should look at building Airports and AA batteries instead of FLAK units for defense of cities. In this scenario Airports cost only 50 and the AA battery 80 while FLAK units cost 150. Given the superiority of interception of an AA battery vs even four stacked AA units this is a no brainer. Build these in your front-line cities and you don't need FLAK except perhaps for units on the move. But AI seems to like to hit cities and some armor units come with there own AA.

Rocoteh - you may want to either tone down the effectiveness of the AA Battery or increase cost.

The AA discussion is for the special German version only and futhermore is in regards to the AI only. trying to beef up the AI!

 

[eaglefox]

are you planning to put russia in a locked war agianst germany in the special AI version? or is it going to start just like the regular scenario?

 

[Rocoteh]

This is pretty much what I was trying to say ... I'm well aware of the Axis using POWs to build railroads but for the most part the benefit of this was pretty localised i.e. it didn't enable the Japanese for example to uproot its entire army and head of to France.

Rocoteh has already mentioned a 300-400 % increase in worker time ... I would also be in favour of reducing the distance rails can take you in one turn ... 10 squares per turn for example.

Perhaps even remove the ability to build rail in Mountains, and maybe Hills too due to the effect building them has on shield output ... another thing we humans can take advantage of but the AI tends to use sporadically.

Dazz_G,

Unlimited range for rail is a locked factor.
Its not possible to change with the editor.
The same is true for building rail in mountain and hills.


Rocoteh

 

[Rocoteh]

are you planning to put russia in a locked war agianst germany in the special AI version? or is it going to start just like the regular scenario?

eaglefox,

It will be like in the regular version.

Rocoteh