WW2-Global

There can be only one of one type of Great Wonder in a game :)
So you'd need lots and lots Great Wonders, each with a different name.

Making settlers buildable won't do anything, the small countries might want to settle in the open spaces, but the ones who raze the cities probably won't. So you got Russia destroying a city and Belgium sending a settler through enemy territory to occupy the free space.
Although this might be caused by the high resistance chances. The AI captures a city and sees that it'll take a lot of turns and a lot of units before the city is rid of resistance and might become valuable and thus disbands it.

The only thing to counter razing is making sure that the AI wants to keep cities it captures, ie, not be above the optimal number of cities, almost no corruption, etc etc...

This in turn makes the human player stronger since he is better at keeping cities and making them productive.
 
I have been playtesting as Germany and will type up a very overdue report later on.

On the subject of numbers of ships per icon I agree with Eric except i'd maybe go as far as to make destroyers in particular 4 ships per icon ... from what I have witnessed from the English and Russian AI, they tend to take forever just moving all their Destroyers and Subs in large clusters to the same spot ... as you will see from the report to follow later, this is how I wiped out 17 Russian Destroyers and 34 Subs on successive turns by lying in wait for them. Therefore it follows that you could reduce the numbers of these units and speed things up a little.

As for Settlers, Zeekater is right ... the thoughts of a Belgian city appearing in Siberia is to weird to imagine. I would rather see a few cities razed than see that happen.
 
eric_A said:
The AI is terrible at moving forces by ship across oceans. It will do it, but
only one transport at a time escorted by two or three ships, which makes
them sitting ducks for a carrier task group. I have seen this many times
in my TOS scenario. In that scenario I did disable airlift for most units.

You could just disable the airlift capability for all units except paratroopers,
in the multiplayer version only.

HTH
Eric

eric_A,

Interesting what you mention about transports and and the lack
of relevant escort.
I will consider to disable airlift for all units except paratroopers
in version 1.3. It is realistic. I just hope AI can reinforce areas far
away without airlift.

About 1 naval unit represent more than 1 ship:
Only 3 weeks have passed since the release of WW2-Global.
Should feedback show there is a strong opinion for
naval units representing group of ships there will probably be
such a solution in the future.

Best Regards

Rocoteh
 
Zeekater said:
There can be only one of one type of Great Wonder in a game :)
So you'd need lots and lots Great Wonders, each with a different name.

Making settlers buildable won't do anything, the small countries might want to settle in the open spaces, but the ones who raze the cities probably won't. So you got Russia destroying a city and Belgium sending a settler through enemy territory to occupy the free space.
Although this might be caused by the high resistance chances. The AI captures a city and sees that it'll take a lot of turns and a lot of units before the city is rid of resistance and might become valuable and thus disbands it.

The only thing to counter razing is making sure that the AI wants to keep cities it captures, ie, not be above the optimal number of cities, almost no corruption, etc etc...

This in turn makes the human player stronger since he is better at keeping cities and making them productive.

Zeekater,

On the wonders: Yes I am aware of that.

On razing of cities: There are a lot of problems connected with
allowing settlers. (My WW3-Global is an exception, since settlers
here are a part of the concept.)

I think what you say about resistance is correct. It will be lower
in version 1.3.

Rocoteh
 
KristiB said:
Not sure if this is even doable, but maybe just put a worthless Great Wonder in ALL cities to prevent the AI from razing? Is there any way to just make a generic great wonder that you can put in every city? Like one that doesn't affect culture values and what-not?

KristiB,

Now and then there have been intensive discussions concerning
the problem with AI razing cities.

There have been several theorys on how to stop razing.
What I know Firaxis have never made any comments on the
theorys.

The "Great Wonder theory" have a strong point: No one have reported
a city with a Great Wonder razed by AI (again what I know).

One must make one separate wonder for each city.

Before I start with that I appreciate reports on which cities
"like" to raze. Then I place wonders in them.
The reason to why I not start to place wonders in all cities is
that the "Great Wonder theory" is not confirmed, its a theory.

Rocoteh
 
Dazz_G said:
I have been playtesting as Germany and will type up a very overdue report later on.

On the subject of numbers of ships per icon I agree with Eric except i'd maybe go as far as to make destroyers in particular 4 ships per icon ... from what I have witnessed from the English and Russian AI, they tend to take forever just moving all their Destroyers and Subs in large clusters to the same spot ... as you will see from the report to follow later, this is how I wiped out 17 Russian Destroyers and 34 Subs on successive turns by lying in wait for them. Therefore it follows that you could reduce the numbers of these units and speed things up a little.

As for Settlers, Zeekater is right ... the thoughts of a Belgian city appearing in Siberia is to weird to imagine. I would rather see a few cities razed than see that happen.

Dazz_G,

I am looking forward to read that report.

On 1 naval unit represent more than 1 ship:

I do not think AI waiting time will be reduced so much with
less naval units.

When it comes to handling a large number of units (I now refer to
a human player.) its a good idea to maybe only move some 20%
of the naval units each turn. Its not in any way unrealistic and moving
ships will thus not be a burden.
The problem with CIV and realism is that a player can have all units
in action during one turn.
This was solved many years ago in conventional wargames by the introduction
of action-points that players had to spend when moving units.

Remember the Japanese Battleships Haruna and Kongo raiding Henderson field?
It was a very effective raid.
Why did they not return on more raids.

The answer is that the Japanese Battleship-raid spend 4% of the
Japanese Navy oil supply!

On settlers: I guess a majority will not like that solution.
However the "Great Wonder theory" may be the only 100%
way to stop AI from razing cities.


Rocoteh
 
I have not got deep into France but I will report it anyway since I have a few other things to add also. First things first; about the razing: In my China game I got almost to the end of 1940 before I stopped. By that time well over a dozen cities were torched. While a FEW places, like Spain seem to get torched every game, I think whoever said it is the AI thinking it can't hold the city that is causing the razings. I watched France take on Spain as Italy and they bled themselves white taking the two northern cities and both ended up being razed.

I also thought about mentioning going to DD squadrons and Wolfpacks, etc.,just because I figured it would reduce the Naval units on the board by at least 80%. The AI is very aggressive with it's fleets so no matter how many you give them they are going to lose them eventually. I keep my ships in ports and come out and fight during my turn; the AI leaves it's ships at sea far too often. If you change the naval stats to balance the defense vs. offense it will of course become bloodier. At the very least it would reduce my massive "flak fleets" of DDs hiding in my port cities and shredding Air attacks. As it is I will not dare attack a city I know to have navy hiding in it with Air units;the loss rate is 50% or worse! I am 50/50 on going to task groups though. I would suggest just using single ships as the icons, we don't need more RAM hogs please!

I think there are two reasons why the AI is War declaration happy. Especially the Allies vs. Spain and perhaps Japan vs. Soviets. First is the sub issue. Now DDs can spot subs, so I assume it is other types of ships that are bumbing into subs and starting a war? Maybe you could give ALL ships the ability to see subs? I mean after all, the AI knows where all your units are anyway,right? If they can see them perhaps they won't start wars by accident?

Second is something I remember from a forum members' website with stories of his GOTM exploits(Cracker?); I don't remember exactly who it was unfortunately. :( Anyway in a game he had described involving India he discovered that If you have cities with closely overlapping cultural borders that cause their cities to "lose" tiles to work, especially the first ring,it REALLY pisses the AI off. I am thinking specifically of Gibralter, and Tangiers / Valencia / Madrid; they are right on top of each other! Those northern border cities with France are in the same boat I think. In three games so far either the Allies have declared on Spain like turn 1-2, or Spain has declared on them...I don't think that is an accident. If you played with the city positioning I bet it would help. If you ever do the larger map version that would help with things like this immensely. Now realize, it can be a tool to use in your favor. Copenhagen's pressure on German cities will almost certainly cause a war, which would follow the history of the War. I also think there might be one or two cites in Manchuria that 'press' on Soviet cities and that may be contributing to the early war,but since it always seems to be Japan declaring I still think the sub issue is the problem there,not aggresiveness.

Only two turns to report as France, all I had time for. I think I will be getting in one a night this week,sorry. :(

Week 36- So far as my forces go I feel incredibly powerful right now;it must be residue from having played China and Italy just previous. ;) Nothing happens in France itself except about 10 air raids; I don't do as well as I had hoped but I do shoot down 3-4 with flak. I reinforced both the German and Italian borders and they basically left me alone. I should note here that the first turn of a loaded game the AI has yet to set Air Superiority missions so ou have a free hand with your bombers for ONE turn...I tore Germany's central road net up just to prove it to myself but that was cheating. :mischief: DON'T DO IT! :mad:

I spend the turn busily whomping on the available naval targets: 7 Type VII UB,and Italy lost 2 SS,35 DD,5 CL,3 CA My losses were 7 SS,5DD, and 1 CA. I take a long look at Spain via espionage, and decide those 3 special forts + friends in each of the two border cities is more then I want to handle, so I leave Spain alone. Of course, Britain foils this plan by declaring on Spain. :sad: Oddly enough when turn two rolls around I am informed that due to Spanish attacks I am drawn in by MPP!! Must have been the Spanish navy getting in pre-emptive strikes. I notice Poland took Stettin during the between turn phase but Germany took it back and Lodz too on their first turn.

Week 37- Well, I had massed my troops on the Spanish border before I went and did the research, so getting dragged into the war was bad...for Spain. I burned Barcelona to the ground! (didn't want it;space is at a premium in Europe.) Also Tangiers fell and was spared razing due to I needed a place to hide my CA after sinking a Spanish CA. I plan on abandoning it next turn. I lose 1 SS Italy loses 6 SS,7DD,1 CA. Italy's navy is swarming out into the med, and I can't kill them all without exposing myself to their counterattack. I can see I have a big job to do down here...

Overall quite good;it may take a long time but I think the Axis is dead meat. If anything,France is too strong! German AI seems to be unwilling to attack the 0-70-1 fortresses and they don't seem to declare war on Dutch either. You may want to start with them at war with Germany in 1.3 just to give the AI the hint. I have not gotten very far yet, but I feel so very safe! Of course, going into Germany is quite a different matter... :eek:

I have a couple more questions for you Rocoteh: If I decided to finish my old 1.1 version game, can I use the 1.2 biq file, or would I have to put the old 1.1 version back in? I saved that file just in case. Also, since I got the saved games to work, if I load the full scenario now will I get to choose to play some of the minor nations? I am one of those people who would like to play Turkey or Spain say. :mischief:

Last thoughts: About the MG units. It seems the nations that get them(UK, US,Germany) have no real use for them. Nations like Soviets,China,Italy, and even France DO have a use for them;do they get them?

To clarify what I said about the Soviet MRDs in that last thread: I was suggesting something like 16-13-1/3 hit point regulars for 170-ish shields early,then 18-15-2/4hit point regulars for 150-ish in mid game; then 21-19-2/5 hit point regulars for 130-ish toward the end. Maybe the shield costs should be reversed if you think that is too much, but with a pattern like that in there Germany better win quick or they are SO dead! :help:
 
Rocoteh said:
Dazz_G,

I do not think AI waiting time will be reduced so much with
less naval units.

When it comes to handling a large number of units (I now refer to
a human player.) its a good idea to maybe only move some 20%
of the naval units each turn. Its not in any way unrealistic and moving
ships will thus not be a burden.

Rocoteh

What i was really getting at is this (and it is nitpicking at best) ... it gets a bit of a pain when you watch GB move a Destroyer 8 squares up the former French (now Greater Germany) coast ... then watch it do the exact same move with a second Destroyer ... then another ... and another ... after watching the same move 30something times you just want to scream at the AI for being so dumb. If the AI is going to keep doing this with Destroyers then the fewer units it has to move (and I have to watch) the better.

That being said ... as Germany, I now have a huge fleet of Elite U-Boats ... if the AI is going to keep being dumb with its ship moving habits with such large numbers of units then it gives us a very easy time getting ships promoted :D
 
Sasebo,

Thank you for the report.

"In my China game I got almost to the end of 1940 before I stopped. By that time well over a dozen cities were torched"Sasebo

Version 1.3 will experiment with Great Wonders placed in many cities,
among them, all Spanish cities.

"The AI is very aggressive with it's fleets so no matter how many you give them they are going to lose them eventually" Sasebo

Yes I think this is overall a great problem with CIV-AI.

"I would suggest just using single ships as the icons, we don't need more RAM hogs please!" Sasebo

Yes, I agree.

"Maybe you could give ALL ships the ability to see subs? I mean after all, the AI knows where all your units are anyway,right? If they can see them perhaps they won't start wars by accident?" Sasebo

It would make building destroyers pointless though.

On changing positions for cities.
It may be done in versions after 1.3.

"I notice Poland took Stettin during the between turn phase but Germany took it back and Lodz too on their first turn." Sasebo

I will prevent that in version 1.3.

"If anything,France is too strong! German AI seems to be unwilling to attack the 0-70-1 fortresses and they don't seem to declare war on Dutch either."
Sasebo

However other playtest-reports (Human playing Germany) says France
is to weak! It maybe possible to make different AI-adjusted editions
for Barbarossa of one basic version, but due to limited time this
is not realitic for WW2-Global.

I have a couple more questions for you Rocoteh: If I decided to finish my old 1.1 version game, can I use the 1.2 biq file, or would I have to put the old 1.1 version back in? I saved that file just in case. Also, since I got the saved games to work, if I load the full scenario now will I get to choose to play some of the minor nations? I am one of those people who would like to play Turkey or Spain say. Sasebo

I assume you must continue the saved game on version 1.1.
Right now only 8 Civs are playable (although one can always add
Civs with the editor of course) In version 1.3 I consider to add Argentina,
Turkey and Spain. Playing one of these Civs will be like "Mission Impossible"
level.

Last thoughts: About the MG units. It seems the nations that get them(UK, US,Germany) have no real use for them. Nations like Soviets,China,Italy, and even France DO have a use for them;do they get them? Sasebo

No not now. That will be one more change in version 1.3.

All the stats for Motorized Rifle divisions will be changed in 1.3.

Thank you and welcome back.


Rocoteh
 
I don´t think the idea of spotting Uboats by any naval unit is so good. Historically I do not know a case in which cruiser or even battleships detected and sunk a Uboat which was not surfaced but attacking.

Adler
 
Adler17 said:
I don´t think the idea of spotting Uboats by any naval unit is so good. Historically I do not know a case in which cruiser or even battleships detected and sunk a Uboat which was not surfaced but attacking.

Adler

Adler,

Yes I agree.

In fact when it comes to naval units I really hope there will be
a naval system in Civ 4 that reflects Anti Submarine Warfare.

In such a system only ships with ASW (during WW2 in most cases
destroyers) and special ASW-planes should be able to attack subs.

The problem with the current system is that once a submarine
is detected, you can hit it with everything including battleships.

Rocoteh
 
Dazz_G said:
What i was really getting at is this (and it is nitpicking at best) ... it gets a bit of a pain when you watch GB move a Destroyer 8 squares up the former French (now Greater Germany) coast ... then watch it do the exact same move with a second Destroyer ... then another ... and another ... after watching the same move 30something times you just want to scream at the AI for being so dumb. If the AI is going to keep doing this with Destroyers then the fewer units it has to move (and I have to watch) the better.

That being said ... as Germany, I now have a huge fleet of Elite U-Boats ... if the AI is going to keep being dumb with its ship moving habits with such large numbers of units then it gives us a very easy time getting ships promoted :D

Dazz_G,

OK, I undestand that what you describe above can be frustrating.

Again, going from the current 1 unit = 1 ship system to another
system is a large step and I want more feedback on it.

Thus, to you who want to keep the old system:
Please post (or send a PM if you for some reason do not like to post)
and tell it.

If feedback only says:"the new system sounds better", it will be
implemented in the future.

Rocoteh
 
Well in history a whole banch of destroyer could cope with a battleship, especially regarding to their torpedoes. However I ask myself if Britain has 100+ destroyer if this would be senseful. However I think it is now a good idea. It reflect the Naval warfare as it was. And if you have so much Uboats you can easily cope with that amount. However I´m waiting for version 1.3 to test it... I hope, Rocoteh, you will ad the boats I mentioned. I think you could have a look on SOE. There they included many clases...

Adler
 
Adler17 said:
Well in history a whole banch of destroyer could cope with a battleship, especially regarding to their torpedoes. However I ask myself if Britain has 100+ destroyer if this would be senseful. However I think it is now a good idea. It reflect the Naval warfare as it was. And if you have so much Uboats you can easily cope with that amount. However I´m waiting for version 1.3 to test it... I hope, Rocoteh, you will ad the boats I mentioned. I think you could have a look on SOE. There they included many clases...

Adler

Adler,

I see.

However there is a 100 MB limit for downloads at CFC that
SOE does not need to worrie about.

With that rule I must delete graphics if I want to add new.

Rocoteh
 
Rocoteh said:
Adler,

I see.

However there is a 100 MB limit for downloads at CFC that
SOE does not need to worrie about.

With that rule I must delete graphics if I want to add new.

Rocoteh

How about including graphics in a seperate file?

Also, I figured out my slowdown issue. I disabled Norton Anti-Virus. Now, the computer turns (along with my build orders) takes about 15 minutes.
 
allin1joe said:
How about including graphics in a seperate file?

Also, I figured out my slowdown issue. I disabled Norton Anti-Virus. Now, the computer turns (along with my build orders) takes about 15 minutes.

allin1joe,

That is very good news.

142 MB out of total 145 MB (uncompressed) is unit graphics
so a separate file will not solve the problem.

Rocoteh
 
The only thing you could really do is split the graphics files into two downloads but as this means the downloader whould have to copy and paste, this may cause more problems for some people.
 
Dazz_G said:
The only thing you could really do is split the graphics files into two downloads but as this means the downloader whould have to copy and paste, this may cause more problems for some people.

Dazz_G,

The problem is as you say it will cause problems for many people.

Install is already a problem as one can read about in this thread.
In addition I also have got many PM:s and E-mail about how to install.

Anyway: Just a few minutes ago I send a PM to Thunderfall
concerning the 100 MB limit for downloads.

Rocoteh
 
Two things I have noticed as playing as the Germans ...

Ju-87B Bomber has AirSuperiority capability ... a mistake ?

U-Boats cannot Stealth Attack Transports ... this may be intentional but I would have thought that Transports would be a Stealth target ?
 
Dazz_G said:
Two things I have noticed as playing as the Germans ...

Ju-87B Bomber has AirSuperiority capability ... a mistake ?

U-Boats cannot Stealth Attack Transports ... this may be intentional but I would have thought that Transports would be a Stealth target ?

Dazz_G,

Yes, its a bug.
It will be corrected in version 1.3.
Should not cause problems though.

On U-boats an stealth against transports:

You have a point there. I will consider to change it.

Rocoteh
 
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