WW2-Global

Sorry for slightly hijacking your thread Rocoteh ...

[http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=109319]

This is the link for a WW2 Global PBEM for anyone interested. We are waiting for one player to take Germany although I would switch to Germany if anyone wants to play Britain instead.


Rocoteh said:
On razed cities:
There is not much left to do with regard to razed cities.

One theory says that AI never raze a city with a Great Wonder.
In such a case it would mean many wonders to add.

Rocoteh

That is pretty much what I expected but I thought i'd mention it anyway.
 
Playtsest update as Britain:
The first thing I have to say is I don't think the RAF has too many fighters. Whereas I have about 15 bombers I only have about 8 fighters (at around two per city). I would consider this the same as the Luftwaffe whenever I raid a German city.
I'm currently focusing on Africa and using artillary combined with Brit Infantry have taken every city in Italian North Africa except the one near Malta (which I can't remember the name of!) and most of Ethiopia. Germany has destroyed Poland but been quiet otherwise- though I destroyed most of their fleet. Spain declared war on Italy, and their power has helped against the Italian navy, who destroyed many of my ships early on and I'm now just sending runs out from Malta, from which I am hoping to send a force to Sicaly and Sardinia to stop the Italians from stacking ships there and healing them.
As I said earlier, Poland captured Stettin but then got overrun, though they held out valiantly. My bombers have been taking out resources in German territory and cutting roads to try to slow the German advance- it's working!
 
Mei,

"The first thing I have to say is I don't think the RAF has too many fighters"
Mei

Interesting with a second opinion concerning that question.

My bombers have been taking out resources in German territory and cutting roads to try to slow the German advance- it's working! Mei

That is very interesting!
I am really looking forward to hear how AI responds on strategic bombing.

Will you focus on Japan after taking control of Italys positions
in Africa?

Thank you for the report.

Rocoteh
 
hey sorry for not posting in a long time, but your scenario still keeps on exiting the game automaticly. :( I know it works, because the civilopedia is complete when i choose my civ, but when i press the start button, the game just exits. I know it couldnt be a failure in the system because it only happens whenever i open the scenario. But i think that you did an excellent job, ive seen it in conquests edit :goodjob:
 
Rocoteh:
I downloaded your scenario in prepartion for the multiplayer PBEM and
gave it a short test in single player mode as the USA. Hope you
don't mind a little constructive criticism:

Airlift:
There is far too much airlift capability for historical accuracy.
By rush building an airport in Manillia I can airlift most of the
US army (except for the mech units) to the Phillipines in
a couple of turns. US infantry division were not airmobile
in 1940.

Naval Movement:
I think the game would work better if the movement cost for coastal
areas was increased to 2, then give all ships 1 extra movement
point. This is to simulate the effects of mines, reefs, etc..
Ships will move faster in the open sea but will be slowed down
in narrow channels.
 
FuTuREteCh said:
hey sorry for not posting in a long time, but your scenario still keeps on exiting the game automaticly. :( I know it works, because the civilopedia is complete when i choose my civ, but when i press the start button, the game just exits. I know it couldnt be a failure in the system because it only happens whenever i open the scenario. But i think that you did an excellent job, ive seen it in conquests edit :goodjob:

FuTuREteCh,

I have never heard about this type of error earlier.

If someone have a idea to solve this problem, please post it.

Rocoteh
 
eric_A,

There is far too much airlift capability for historical accuracy.
By rush building an airport in Manillia I can airlift most of the
US army (except for the mech units) to the Phillipines in
a couple of turns. US infantry division were not airmobile
in 1940. eric_A

Agree.
That is really a problem. Within the game-engine hard to solve though.
Special air-transport units maybe. The question is: Can AI handle such units?

"Naval Movement:
I think the game would work better if the movement cost for coastal
areas was increased to 2, then give all ships 1 extra movement
point. This is to simulate the effects of mines, reefs, etc..
Ships will move faster in the open sea but will be slowed down
in narrow channels" eric_A

OK,I will consider it with regard to version 1.3.

Rocoteh
 
I did play a lot as Germany and offer this to those who inquired -

1. British air defense (notably fighters) is a force not to be attacked directly. As someone else noted just bring a force of panzers across and take the island. Save your bombers for the Russians - you will need them!

2. Germany is powerful in the beginning and should have little problem taking most of Europe. In 1.2 the changes to Russia make them unstoppable whenever they choose to attack. Possible counter to this is to hold the Allies at bay (they don't really launch any attack) and crush the Russians before they build too many forces. I have not tried it but it could be a road to victory before the MRD destroy you. (Note to Rocoteh - you have noted the MRD issue, but I believe it is not just the defensive rating but the entire unit structure vs cost.)

3. For naval maneuvers it does not pay to move your fleet out into the Atlantic except for subs. You will need to address Russian fleet eventually and the British are just too powerful. Move out your subs (at least one a turn is produced) and harass British and American forces. I move mine out off of Iceland, create packs and take out a few units from time to time.) Key here is to take out the British Isles. After that your major issue is dealing with American Battleships and convoys.

Anyone playing 1.2 will need to deal with the Russians.
 
Bob1475,

"(Note to Rocoteh - you have noted the MRD issue, but I believe it is not just the defensive rating but the entire unit structure vs cost.)"Bob1475,

OK, all the stats concerning the Motorized Rifle division seems
to nedd more analyse. I welcome more opinions and playtest-reports
on the matter.
I also intend to make a new analyse of the Motorized Rifle division
compared with the German Panzer division.

Rocoteh

WW2-Global Multiplayer 1.0 now available for download:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=79035
 
I'll have a rec. on the MRD and maybe will do a few turns as France; I think I am done with Italy for now due to Soviet issues. A summary of my more recent turns of Italy 1.2 follows:

Week 39- Manila falls to Japan,Foochow razed. Japan declares war on Soviets! I am currently invading Greece,took Thessaloniki.

Week 40- Romania DEAD! :eek: Stacks of Soviet armor show up on my border near Belgrade.

Week 41- Hungary DEAD! :eek: Palawan Falls to Japan. I begin to mass air & artillery in Belgrade. I kill a couple MRD.

Week 42- I finish Greece off, invading Crete. Soviet armor builds. I kill 1 or two more. I am not mentioning it, but they are chopping up my units, even fortified in cities.

Week 43- US declares vs. Turks. I neglected to mention Turks & Greece were at war for most of the game. Turks chased Greek navy to the atlantic. ;) Germany takes Lublin. Japan razes Wuhan. :(

Week 44- Cyprus falls. Yay! :) Petsamo,Kuipiu in Finland falls. I lose 5 infantry, kill 5 MRD in response.

Week 45- Kemi, Warsaw,Lublin,Honto fall to Soviets. Japan takes Panay. I kill 4 MRD and a tank Division near Belgrade. US fleet of 3 BB shows up near Spain, and I kill a small task force of UK near Sicily including a Transport.

Week 46- Vaasa, Tampere fall to Soviets. Germans take Vilnius. I forget to wake up my infantry and move five more into Belgrade, and I am pretty much ready to hang it up for now. Some thoughts...

Italy seems fine so far as balance. They have to struggle hard to make anything, but their navy rules the med! I did take Yugoslavia,Greece and Cyprus. Those one square Islands are going to be really hard for Italy to take without marines, and they don't have any to start. :( But the pace seemed right, and you have a fighting chance. I needed those offshore platforms pretty bad, it was good you included them. I still felt weak economically vs. what I managed in China but that was the Allies strength. I notice I don't have the ability to build Heavy Artillery, why is that??? Also, after a ton of naval bombard, I think there MAY be something wrong with CA bombard. I hit almost never with them. BBs seem to do much better even though they only have 2 more firepower. I was able to bomb roads on plains say with a bomber fairly easily; the CA just don't seem to get it done, I can't figure out why. I am talking about maybe 4-5 bombard hits out of say 55 tries? It just seems off. Maybe bump their ROF to 2?

I noticed a lot of food resources are outside of City radius', was there any reason you did that? It is kind of annoying. :p

I massed something like 18 artillery, my 3 DB and 3-4 bombers in/near Belgrade. I DID kill MRD,quite a few of them actually. They just had endless numbers it seemed. I think Germany is strong enough to hold their own even against the 1.2 version, but it will kill their Axis allies straight off. I don't know if you want to simulate the Axis advance into USSR but if you do then you need to seriously weaken the Soviets or it is all over. I am not complaining here either, I know you are well aware of this and I see in your last post you wanted more feedback.

I look at the raw stats and you have USSR paying 130 shields for a 21-19-2 while my best defender is a 5-8-1 for 100...and their cites are spread out more and I am betting are way more shield productive. No way can we hold those #$$%$ off. Both in Italy and China games Axis minors got pounded and taken out.

Not sure how you want to correct this but I have some ideas. I notice you had early versions of Soviet troops in your Barbarossa scenario that upgraded later,1941 say. If you made early versions that were low on hit points and bumped them with extra hit point versions in 41 and 42-43 this would help a lot I think. I know from playing China that starting with 3 hit point regulars is a very tough row to hoe attack wise. I know they have the raw numbers of equipment,and you want to show that in the stats, but their showing on the real battlefield indicates you need to really chop they down in the first couple years. So less hitpoints AND lower stats; even if you dropped the MRDs defense down to 13 like it was in 1.1 that attack of 21 was deadly. Even the 14 attack T26s were killing me;I was losing like 7-8 units a turn in Belgrade at the end,they chewed right through my infantry. I could not sustain that loss rate which is one reason I gave up the game, I could see the writing on the wall.

I'd suggest 16-13-1 in 1939, then 18-15-2 in 1941, then 21-19-2 in 1943. Adjust the cost a bit higher maybe too,you really can't tame these demons too much. I wasn't even into 1940 yet, and they had already overrun eastern europe. :rolleyes: Take a hard look at the Soviet armor in general. If you can make early & late versions for more of them it will help a lot.

You also might want to do what you did with Turkey, and give the Axis minors some Special Fortress 1-15-0 units in their home cites. The idiots take all their infantry and leave them half empty! Take away some of their starting Infantry to make up for the increase in strength. If you give the minors these, you might not have to do too much to the soviet tanks. It's that high attack vs. their 8 defense that is slaughtering them. The minors may get their armies in the field decimated, but their home cites will keep them in the game a lot longer. 2 to 4 of those Fort Infantry per city should do it.

Maybe you should give in a bit, and allow colonists to replace the razed cites. Make them dirt cheap so it doesn't waste the AI's production. The AI is usually good at filling up empty space in that regard at least. Just an odd idea.

Really sorry this was so long! You said you don't have many reports coming from France, so I think I will try them next, although I am dying to try Japan or Germany. I suspect France will be cake though. ;) Once again, great job! :goodjob:
 
Sasebo,

Thank you for the report.

"Week 40- Romania DEAD!
"Week 41- Hungary DEAD!" Sasebo

That was not good!
Changes must be made.

"I notice I don't have the ability to build Heavy Artillery, why is that???"
Sasebo
A bug. It will be corrected in version 1.3.

"I think there MAY be something wrong with CA bombard."
"Maybe bump their ROF to 2?" Sasebo

Very good idea! It will be implemented in version 1.3.

"I noticed a lot of food resources are outside of City radius', was there any reason you did that? It is kind of annoying." Sasebo

Maybe a rest from the about 30! pre-release versions. I will look it over.

On Soviet and the need for better balance: I have made notes on
the changes you propose. One thing is clear: There will be many
changes on unit-stats and units in version 1.3.
However I need more playtest-reports on Germany versus Soviet,
before I know how far changes will go.
Also: Version 1.3 will introduce the Italian Mountain division which
have much better stats than the Italian Infantry division.

"You also might want to do what you did with Turkey, and give the Axis minors some Special Fortress 1-15-0 units in their home cites" Sasebo

Sounds like a good idea. One way to go would also be to integrate
Hungary with Germany. I need feedback on that idea.

"Maybe you should give in a bit, and allow colonists to replace the razed cites. Make them dirt cheap so it doesn't waste the AI's production. The AI is usually good at filling up empty space in that regard at least. Just an odd idea." Sasebo

Not odd at all! In fact I thought about it many times, but abstained from
implement since its hard to see if it will give some very strange results.

"Really sorry this was so long! You said you don't have many reports coming from France, so I think I will try them next" Sasebo

No problem. Long reports are very interesting.

Looking forward to see your report and comments on France.

Rocoteh
 
A couple of things (sorry if they were brought up earlier, but I'm not reading 41 pages of history :)).

1. I assume there is no way to build a settler. If not, why? It would definately help to be able to replace any city the AI razes.

2. This takes an insanely long time on my compter (AMD Athlon 2gHz with 512MB of RAM). It took a little over an hour to configure the scenario, and it takes about an hour a turn (15 minutes for my moves, 45 in "please wait" mode). Is there anything I can do to speed this up?

3. I'm playing as the Americans, and I have to agree on the airlifting(being overpowered). The first thing I did was build(rush) airports in the pacific so I could ship immediately re-enforcements over there. My navy followed up next. I played for about 7 hours yesterday, and got done with maybe 8 turns so it'll be a while before I know how effective my first battle fleet is (I left a decent amount behind for defense. I dont want any surprises back home).

4. I like the fact that building railroads takes longer. It's a very powerful feature. I'm trying to improve the home front (woefully inadequate shield output), and the first time I went to lay down tracks I almost fell off my chair :) I have now combined the workers I've made to try to get done with things in less time.

Thank you for your work on this mod. It's unbelieveable. I found that I forgot I was playing Civ from time to time. I fell into strategies that I would take playing Axis and Allies or something similar.
 
One way of drastically reducing the wait times on the game IMO would be to do away with the 1 icon = 1 ship rule... I know that probably doesn't appeal to the Italians or English, but frankly I think the current policy is the majority of the reason that the AI takes so long on moving stuff.

I'd actually much prefer a 'task force' icon that represented more than one ship. Rather than building an actual battleship, for example, extend the production costs and have the 'battleship' actually equal a battleship, a couple frigates, and a cruiser or two... I haven't played the United States yet, but I can imagine them having well over 200 ships. Even the sheer amount of German uboats can get unwieldly.

I know that it would entail a complete reworking of the sea icons, but it sure would speed up the scenario ALOT...
 
allin1joe said:
A couple of things (sorry if they were brought up earlier, but I'm not reading 41 pages of history :)).

1. I assume there is no way to build a settler. If not, why? It would definately help to be able to replace any city the AI razes.

2. This takes an insanely long time on my compter (AMD Athlon 2gHz with 512MB of RAM). It took a little over an hour to configure the scenario, and it takes about an hour a turn (15 minutes for my moves, 45 in "please wait" mode). Is there anything I can do to speed this up?

3. I'm playing as the Americans, and I have to agree on the airlifting(being overpowered). The first thing I did was build(rush) airports in the pacific so I could ship immediately re-enforcements over there. My navy followed up next. I played for about 7 hours yesterday, and got done with maybe 8 turns so it'll be a while before I know how effective my first battle fleet is (I left a decent amount behind for defense. I dont want any surprises back home).

4. I like the fact that building railroads takes longer. It's a very powerful feature. I'm trying to improve the home front (woefully inadequate shield output), and the first time I went to lay down tracks I almost fell off my chair :) I have now combined the workers I've made to try to get done with things in less time.

Thank you for your work on this mod. It's unbelieveable. I found that I forgot I was playing Civ from time to time. I fell into strategies that I would take playing Axis and Allies or something similar.


allin1joe,

Thank you,

1. Its due to the time-period, but why not? It will no doubt
counter the effects of AI razing cities.
I will consider it for version 1.3.
Again: The fact that there is no 100% way to stop AI from razing cities
is a severe problem within the current game-engine.
If I can get reports on which cities AI "like" to raze most, I will place
Great Wonders in these cities. That maybe will help.
These Wonders then will have no effect. They will be there just to
prevent AI from razing the city.

2. On Pentium 4 3GhZ, 2 GB RAM configure time is 15 minutes
and waiting time is 5 minutes between turns.
With regard to the capacity your computer have, load time (configure)
and waiting time seems to be long.(Although a huge RAM is very important
when playing CIV3/C3C. Right now I have no idea how to speed it up,
but maybe someone who read this have advise.

3. This is also a game-engine problem. One can solve this problem
with the creation of special air-transport units. Using these units
would then be the only way to air-transport units. One problem left:
Is AI smart enough to handle these units? Even if the answer is no, it
may be a way to go.

4. Agree. The railroads are a very powerful infrastructure and for
that reason I think its good many worker units are needed to build them.

I am glad to hear that you liked the scenario.

Thank you and welcome back.


Rocoteh
 
KristiB said:
One way of drastically reducing the wait times on the game IMO would be to do away with the 1 icon = 1 ship rule... I know that probably doesn't appeal to the Italians or English, but frankly I think the current policy is the majority of the reason that the AI takes so long on moving stuff.

I'd actually much prefer a 'task force' icon that represented more than one ship. Rather than building an actual battleship, for example, extend the production costs and have the 'battleship' actually equal a battleship, a couple frigates, and a cruiser or two... I haven't played the United States yet, but I can imagine them having well over 200 ships. Even the sheer amount of German uboats can get unwieldly.

I know that it would entail a complete reworking of the sea icons, but it sure would speed up the scenario ALOT...

KristiB,

In TGW 1 Capital ship unit represents 1 Capital ship,
1 Armored Cruiser Squadron represents 4 Armored Cruisers,
1 Destroyer Flotilla represents 10 Destroyers and so on.

Changing to the TGW-concept would mean a large step away
from the WW2-Global concept.

I will not rule it out, but as I think you understand I want first
a massive opinion for such a change in the feedback since it
would change the whole character of the scenario.

Rocoteh
 
Germany and Soviet. Population and Shields

Population:

Germany: (Within 1939 borders.) 87 millions.

Soviet: 171 millions.

Population and Shields in WW2-Global:

Germany: 158 population points (in 9 cities). 306 Shields.

Soviet: 337 population points (in 62 cities) 496 Shields.

With regard to WW2-Global 1.3 I intend to reduce both number
of population points and Shields for Soviet.

Rocoteh
 
Rocoteh said:
eric_A,

There is far too much airlift capability for historical accuracy.
By rush building an airport in Manillia I can airlift most of the
US army (except for the mech units) to the Phillipines in
a couple of turns. US infantry division were not airmobile
in 1940. eric_A

Agree.
That is really a problem. Within the game-engine hard to solve though.
Special air-transport units maybe. The question is: Can AI handle such units?

Rocoteh

The AI is terrible at moving forces by ship across oceans. It will do it, but
only one transport at a time escorted by two or three ships, which makes
them sitting ducks for a carrier task group. I have seen this many times
in my TOS scenario. In that scenario I did disable airlift for most units.

You could just disable the airlift capability for all units except paratroopers,
in the multiplayer version only.

HTH
Eric
 
Rocoteh said:
KristiB,

In TGW 1 Capital ship unit represents 1 Capital ship,
1 Armored Cruiser Squadron represents 4 Armored Cruisers,
1 Destroyer Flotilla represents 10 Destroyers and so on.

Changing to the TGW-concept would mean a large step away
from the WW2-Global concept.

I will not rule it out, but as I think you understand I want first
a massive opinion for such a change in the feedback since it
would change the whole character of the scenario.

Rocoteh

If you just made destroyers and subs as two ship units and adjusted
the cost and combat capability to match, that would help a lot.
I don't think think it would change the look and feel of the game
too much. You could use multi-unit graphics with two ships.
 
Not sure if this is even doable, but maybe just put a worthless Great Wonder in ALL cities to prevent the AI from razing? Is there any way to just make a generic great wonder that you can put in every city? Like one that doesn't affect culture values and what-not?
 
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