WW2-Global

Bob1475 said:
Hi all. I'm back. Had to spend some time in the real world. I continued playing my Great Britain game and stopped the Axis at the end of 1940 and turned it aournd by invading China and Turkey and up into Europe until the Russians attacked. Held them off until peace and then decided I would mobilize. Discoverd that there is no negative in the game which I just read in one of the notes while I was gone. Now I know why my games are not as good as others!!

Rocoteh - I love the scenario and really appreciate your work. But somehow we need to put down the major modifications you have made in order to get comparative playtests. I am not talking about a detailed Civilopedia for units but things like multiple effects from power sources (Coal AND Hydro), no negative building effects from Mobilization and whatever other secrets there are should be included in one of your notes at the beginning. Please consider it.

Another note - I think the destroyer flotilla unit should be abandoned or changed. The AI builds these instead of battleships which definitely is not good for the US, Japan and Great Britain. In addition it seems to me that the AI prefers to use these units for transport but the result is landings with only one unit. I have seen the US and Germany do this while in the past US seems to handle landings well. Also, I don't think the unit should have bombard ability - destroyers don't so why would a large group of destroyers?

Personally I would eliminate the unit. But if you keep it either increase or eliminate transport capability.

I am going to try the Japanese as those marines are really overpowering in the early game.

Bob1475,

Notes have been taken.

I will see what I can do within the next weeks. There are 3 project
I want to complete during that time. May-September I will be away
40% of the time (without Internet-connection). Thus very limited
CIV-time during that time-period.

Rocoteh
 
LBPB said:
Japan 1.3 - Mid 1944.


The Japanese Empire is on the verge of success !!!

- My cumulated landing in Australia and New Zealand have paid !!! My troops are making a terrific blitz on the commonwealth troops.
Even with their though and proud fighting, they are no match for the Imperial Japanese Army... For example Auckland (lvl 25 city) has been carpet bombed to the ground (lvl 1 city) in one turn by my huge carrier based aircraft (I let you bet how much carrier c3 I've got on this operation).
--> So far Australia is 3/4 conquered and New Zealand is half conquered.

- The build up of my forces in Honolulu for the D-Day on california is going well ! So far I've got 1 full landing barge coming every two weeks.
Surprisingly, the US seems to be aware of my build up, and they've begun bombing operations on Hawaii with their B52 (or B17 didn't remember) coming from Los Angeles.
--> Massive air engagements have begun, but I didn't fear the US airforce, because they are way too far outnumbered.
--> I'm still planing the D-Day for late 44', or spring 45' at worse. I'm waitingfor the other half of my navy still close to Australia to finish their job and come to join the rest of the fleet at Hawaii.

LBPB,

This is a very interesting playtest!

I am really looking forward to follow how the invasion of the
US West Coast turns out.

Thank you and welcome back.

Rocoteh
 
Perhaps this reflects reality, and perhaps you know this already, but it seems several of the later, more advanced units, are actually inferior across the board to ones built earlier.

For example:
British Matilda2: Land 1940, cost: 150, a/d/m: 15/19/2, +2 HP
British Valentine MkIII: Land 1941, cost: 150, a/d/m: 15/14/2, +2 HP

So the later unit is identical to the earlier one, only has 5 LESS defense

That's the only one I recall off the top of my head, I'll look for others though, as this doesn't seem like it could be intentional :eek:

Another point: Combat engineers aren't used properly by the AI with no strategy flags. Suggestion: add attack of 1, check "join city" and check defense and terraform as AI strategies.

Also: For my use, I'm writing a simple civilopedia section outlining the stats of the units that aren't displayed automatically, namely HP bonuses, some special abilities (ie blitz), and who can build them. When I'm done, if you'd like to take a look and consider including it with the next update, I'd be happy to provide it. I was getting frustrated not really being able to tell which units I'd be able to build later, and what they could do. I'll possibly do the buildings next, to actually describe what they do, especially the city wonders. I'll post if you're interested.
 
Sasebo said:
LBPB: When you land on the West Coast, take a screenshot for us; THAT I want to see. :cool:
no problems, I will provide goods shots ;)



Rocoteh said:
This is a very interesting playtest!
I am really looking forward to follow how the invasion of the
US West Coast turns out.
Thx, I will continue until the US surrender :lol:

Last night, Australians made an unexpected powerful counter attack and retook two of their core cities :eek:
--> Finally they ve been rejected, and only two cities remain on their hands

In New Zealand, only one city is left
--> Next week it should fall !

USA are getting too much Iowa class BB from some unknowns locations. they built 4 of them in the last 6 weeks !
--> One of them has been engaged in South West Pacific and sunk, but he take one of my Yamato with him :sad:

My Northern task force is now ready (2 CarriersC3, 5 Yamatos, 2 full Landing Barges, 2 Heavy Cruisers, 3 Subs, 4 Destroyers). Her job is to land in Alaska approx 4 weeks before D-Day to drag the maximum possible amount of troops their (this is only an operation made to divert the US high command).
--> Once the order will be given, this task force will need only two weeks to begun attack on zone
 
clearbeard said:
Perhaps this reflects reality, and perhaps you know this already, but it seems several of the later, more advanced units, are actually inferior across the board to ones built earlier.

For example:
British Matilda2: Land 1940, cost: 150, a/d/m: 15/19/2, +2 HP
British Valentine MkIII: Land 1941, cost: 150, a/d/m: 15/14/2, +2 HP

So the later unit is identical to the earlier one, only has 5 LESS defense

that's the only one I recall off the top of my head, I'll look for others though, as this doesn't seem like it could be intentional :eek:

Also: For my use, I'm writing a simple civilopedia section outlining the stats of the units that aren't displayed automatically, namely HP bonuses, some special abilities (ie blitz), and who can build them. When I'm done, if you'd like to take a look and consider including it with the next update, I'd be happy to provide it. I was getting frustrated not really being able to tell which units I'd be able to build later, and what they could do. I'll possibly do the buildings next, to actually describe what they do, especially the city wonders. I'll post if you're interested.

clearbeard,

The stats are correct: Matilda2 had much better armour than
Valentine MkIII. I will change shield-cost though so it will be a
good idea to produce Valentine.

On the civilopedia update you are working on:
I will release it with the next version.
Credits will be given of course.

Rocoteh
 
enjoying this so far.... only main problem ive had, playing as germany is the fact the RAF has almost totaly wiped me out, and its only week 44 of 1939. RAF seems way too strong, or maybe i messed up? SAM's in london seem to have a 100% hit rate so i stopped bombing london.

2nd problem is the navy's With the american navy active in the atlantic, germany has no chance. Its kinda a shame the USA is at war from the start.

Anyway by turn 44, ive taken greece (italy took crete), taken poland, and ive taken most of france (brest, paris) and of coarse the low counties. Belgrade also declared war on Italy so i took them out as well.

Ive managed to sink 3 CVs, rodney, and a few other BB's but have virtualy no navy left. Just 4 DDs, 1 CL, 1 CA, Bismark is almost finished though, as well as another CL and CA.

Ive used ROP to get some German troops into the middle East, Wont be a full invasion as such, but will hopefully cause some trouble.
 
Roco,

I got some questions and remarks...

1) Is it correct that US Bomber (B17 I guess) have a such wide range of operation in WW2 ?? Cause they are currently bombing my Hawaiian base from the US coast !!!

2) Please find a way to prevent the US AI from conquering south america they is way too inacurate.

3) You should remove completely the destroyer flotilla idea. Let only one unit be one destroyer like in v1.3.

4) I want to take time to thank you 1more time for this wonderful scenario.
 
Grizx,

Thank you for the report and the screenshots.

Concerning Destroyer-flotillas: I am waiting for more feedback before
I decide if to remove them or not in version 1.6.

Welcome back.

Rocoteh
 
LBPB said:
Roco,

I got some questions and remarks...

1) Is it correct that US Bomber (B17 I guess) have a such wide range of operation in WW2 ?? Cause they are currently bombing my Hawaiian base from the US coast !!!

2) Please find a way to prevent the US AI from conquering south america they is way too inacurate.

3) You should remove completely the destroyer flotilla idea. Let only one unit be one destroyer like in v1.3.

4) I want to take time to thank you 1more time for this wonderful scenario.

LBPB,

1. It sounds strange. I will look it over.

2. It will not be easy.

3. I will wait for more feedback before any decision.

4. Thank you.

Rocoteh
 
Overlag said:
enjoying this so far.... only main problem ive had, playing as germany is the fact the RAF has almost totaly wiped me out, and its only week 44 of 1939. RAF seems way too strong, or maybe i messed up? SAM's in london seem to have a 100% hit rate so i stopped bombing london.

2nd problem is the navy's With the american navy active in the atlantic, germany has no chance. Its kinda a shame the USA is at war from the start.

Anyway by turn 44, ive taken greece (italy took crete), taken poland, and ive taken most of france (brest, paris) and of coarse the low counties. Belgrade also declared war on Italy so i took them out as well.

Ive managed to sink 3 CVs, rodney, and a few other BB's but have virtualy no navy left. Just 4 DDs, 1 CL, 1 CA, Bismark is almost finished though, as well as another CL and CA.

Ive used ROP to get some German troops into the middle East, Wont be a full invasion as such, but will hopefully cause some trouble.

Overlag

Will probably reduce the impact of AA-batterys in 1.6.
Current Spitfire will split into 2 or more version-units.

On US at war when scenario starts: The alternative is that 50%
of the time US will go to war with Britain and France.

Rocoteh
 
Rocoteh said:
Overlag

Will probably reduce the impact of AA-batterys in 1.6.
Current Spitfire will split into 2 or more version-units.

On US at war when scenario starts: The alternative is that 50%
of the time US will go to war with Britain and France.

Rocoteh
yeah the US going to war with the UK would be totaly silly, but it greatly effects the game right now. As the Japanise will have issues from the start too, they wont have "free reign" over the pacific for a few years, same as germany. I mean those American and British BB's + American CV's with aircraft are reducing brest and paris to rubble already! arrg :(

its a shame the editor doesnt have a way to make war start in 10 (or whatever) turns, but thats not your fault.
 
@Overlag: Don´t attack cities with strong FlaK. Also send fighters first to see if there are enemy interceptors. This should minimizes your losses. Also stay behind the minefields ready to attack the enemy in range. Others should wait.
@Sasebo: S- boats have bombardment to simulate the hit and run tactic of them. I do not think if it is possible to simulate that in another way.
@ Rocoteh: I am just building a DD- flotilla. I will test them.

Adler
 
Could it be a solution to reduce bombardement - range to 0 for destroyerflotillas and S-Boots. This will make them useful as escorts, but they will not be able to perform bombardement of land or sea targets, which I think is realistic since the range and firepower of their armament is limited. When it comes to making flotillas, squadrons etc could it also be a solution to ramp up their hit points and perhaps their defensive stats, but not so much their offensive stats. A hundred guys armed with revolvers won`t be able to take out a tank more than one guy with a revolver, but it will take a lot longer for the tank to take out a hundred targets than just one.

Also other ablities may increase, a flotilla should perhaps have a better radar range as many ships may perform recon better than just one ship.

I hope my suggestions will be a useful addition to the debate.

-Tantor-
 
Week 43 part 2:
I captured Luxor and Mut with ease. Also Dongala. Then I regrouped for the next attacks.
Now I will do Operation Weserübung: Norway! I attack Oslo with my special TR and can take it with 2 conscripts. Also Bergen is taken by conscripts. To Bergen I sent 31 Uboats. These boats I will use to defend Norway and to break through into the Atlantic.
In the Med the Rumanian part of my fleet sucessfully sunk 2 French DD.

PC:
Holy crap! What´s that! 4 US CL and 88 (!) DD try to break through the lines into the Med! I have to abandon the BoB and rebase my bombers here to cope with that masses. The Italians sink 7 US DD by no losses.

Adler
 
Rocoteh said:
clearbeard,

The stats are correct: Matilda2 had much better armour than
Valentine MkIII. I will change shield-cost though so it will be a
good idea to produce Valentine.
British as I remember stop producing Matilda. So may be it should be upgradable but not upgrade to Valentine...
 
Rocoteh said:
vlad1917_a,
Its possible I will remove it as playable CIV in version 1.6.
Rocoteh

However I have survive already till turn 15. Russians attack Germans and my life become a little bit easy. But Communist China have lost their most important for me city of Sian. And defense become much more complex with 4 towns to defend instead of just 2.
So far I have these forces, and all those Who plays Axis and Allies you should envy to my people of china who successfully defends their country against Japan and Thailand aggressions.
1 Heavy artillery
1 Tank
60 chinese infantries.


However I propose follows changes for the China.
1) Infantry reduce cost to 40.
Increase diffence to 8. Other wise I can not hide my tank behind diffenced in
the town.
2) Place Aqueduct in Wuhan (start Population 7), Canton (start Population 12), Chengtu (start Population 8).
3) Place Hospital in Chungking (start Population 15)
4) Place Temple in Lhasa.
5) Replace Communist Infantry with China infantry in Khotan.
6) Place airport in Chungking.
 
Tantor, S- boats were little use of convoy (=escort) tasks. To counter attack, yes. To stay and fight the enemy: no. Germany lacked of real escorts throughout the war. Destroyer and torpedoboats had to fill this as well as sub chaser and minesweeper. And they managed it quite good with little losses. The only escorts Germany really had were the captured frigates and so called Kanonenboote K 1- K 4.
So how do you think S- boats could be simulated WITHOUT bombardment ability? I mean they had to attack and return as fast as they could. This hit and run ability can only be simulated by bombardment in civ III. Tell me another way if you can.

Adler
 
Interesting. I can make naval unit Army type. well. Any body experemented with this? I see a lot of problems already but who knows...
 
For those of you fighting against the US:

The US starts out the game with virtually no ground forces. It does have a considerable naval force in both tthe Atlantic and the Pacific, but not enough to be everywhere at once. A lot of the US navy is old DD's and relatively weak subs.

In the Atlantic, 3 BB's, 1 CV, about 6 CA's, 20 subs and about 130 DD's, most of them old 4 stackers. Air power in the Atantic is limited. Quite a few Peashooters with a bomardment rate of a whopping 4. Some B-18's with a bombardment rate of 8. And a couple of Dauntlesses and Vindicators with a more decent bombardment rate of 16.

There is an opportunity here for Germany and Japan. As soon as you have built a couple of DD Flotillas, try loading them up with a couple of SS Storm Troopers, or anything, for that matter, and send them over to the Western Hemisphere to raise hell. The DD flotillas are strong and fast. Try sending them North via Iceland and Greenland. Or get them into the wide open South Altalntic. The Panama Canal is very vulnerable in the early game. Only 1 conscript infantry and 6 subs stationed there.

The Continental US early in the game is virtually undefended by groind units and the units available to the US to produce are not very powerful. Those that have good offense have poor defense. Those with good defense have poor offense.

Remember, I am talking diversion here, not a massive, full scale invasion.

The US fleet in the Pacific is more powerful, but the Pacific is much bigger and harder to cover. Alaska is undefended and acutely vulnerable to Japanese attack. Same for the Panama Canal. A Japanese human player could try and lure the US navy far away from the US and get it in a trap while landing some trrops in the Western Hemisphere.

Chile and Argentina can be your friends. Both countries like to build naval forces, to include BB's. If you can get them to declare war on the US, this will cause the US AI to divert forces to deal with them. If you can get an ROP agreement, you can land troops safely, hide them, and build them up for a surprise attack.

In the US scenario I am playing now, Peru declared war on me and there is now a parade of British ships heading East across the Pacific AWAY :( from Japan to attack Peru and it's navy of 3 subs which I already sunk. The %#%# British Navy needs to be defending Australia.

Russia can also be useful before you attack it. If you can get Russia to go to war with England or the US (or take advantage of the opportunity when it does), you can get the US and Brit AI's to divert forces. Russian naval forces can be cause big distractions for the US and the UK. I recently had 30 USSR subs show up off Alaska and try to head down the US West Coast. Had to divert many naval units and air units to deal with them.

If you declare war on Brazil, watch the Italian navy head for Brazil and then watch the SU nave and rRoyal Navy chase the Italians while you infiltrate some DD flotillas loaded with troops into Canada.

Britain has a city in South America - Georgetown. If Germany can capture it early and use DD Flotillas to send reinforcemnts that will be a major diversion for the US.

Roads and rail lines connecting North and South America are vulnerable to shelling.
The road to Alaska is vulnerable to shelling and bombardment.

Havana, Cuba is an isolated target, with no/little defense early in the game. Possible place for air attacks on the US. You may not hold it forever, but again the idea is diversion.

The initial problem is to sneak past the Royal Navy in the Atlantic and get around the flank of the US Navy in the Pacific. The South Pacific is wide, wide open.

For Germany, this is easier once Germany has ports on the Atlantic (France, Spain, Norway) which increase the number of places you can build and launch ships and subs and dispatch DDF's loaded with troops without having to go through the English Channel and North Sea choke points. Use your existing capital ships to lure the British and US navies to one place while you send troop convoys in another.

In my limited experience and humble opinion, I think the worst thing either Germany or Japan can do in the early game is to leave the US mainland alone and allow it to buld its economy and pump out forces undisturbed.

Some may think that some of this is unrealistic. And to some extent it is, given the limitiations of the game engine, etc. But if you want pure realism, then Germany and Japan lose - period.

The great thing about this scenario is that it is reasonably realistic, but even better, presents some real challenges for playing any of the major Civ's.

Sure, it may not be entirely realistic for the US to have invaded South America, but in a general sense the economic capacities of those countries were available to the West.

In the game, if the US does not invade South America then I am not entirely sure that the US could prevail over whoever wins in Eurasia - Germany or Russia. Japan may have a harder time there given the lack of good tank units.

Adler, unless you are trying to run convoys in the Med, then that is a good place for all those US DD's and CL's. What could they possibly do in the Med that could hurt you? They can't bombard, I don't think. If they are in the Med, they are not in the Altlantic. It is also a good opportunity to destroy them as you are doing, if you feel like it.

OVerlag, I agree with Adler about not attacking cities with stong flak. Good way to lose your air force. It is the old problem: do air units have to bomb to allow ground units to move in, or do ground units have to move in to take out the AA to allow air units to operate free of anti air attacks? This remains a real-world issue today.

OVerlag, I also respectfully disagree that Germany has no chance in the Atlantic against the US. Germany probably has to take down Poland, France, Spain, and Russia at least to the Urals before it can seriosuly challenge the US in the Atlantic. Germany needs to seriously expand its economic base to deal with the US. The Iowas can be a problem, but in 1.5 Germany has the Hindenburgs which should balance the equation. Also, you might consider saving up your U-boats. Wait until you have the exits to the North Sea and English Channel firmly under control and then send out large, mutually supporting wolf packs. I think U-boats in ones and twos just get massacred. Air bases in Iceland, Greenland, and the Azores are also useful. (Think DD Flotilllas). 50 or sixty U-boats hitting the North Atlantic simultaneously can be a hoot.

Rocoteh I hope you did not take my comments on DD Flotillas in my earlier post as too negative/critical. Was reallly just trying to pass on some observations and not trying to throw rocks. With or without DD flotillas, this is a truly great scenario and a great deal of fun to play.
As of right now in my US scenario, all the German DDF's have disappeared from the Irish Sea, English Channel and North Sea and invasion attempts on England have stopped. No idea where all the DDF's went to or if they were sunk. I'll have to wait and see.


Unless you are new to Civ 3 I would strongly suggest playing this scenario at Deity or Sid level for the most fun.

Grizx
 
About the DD-flotillas, I think you should delete them. I built couple of those and sent them to atlantic to see what happens. AI didn't attack them :(, not even with another flotilla! I've been able to destroy couple of british flotillas with combined attack of aircraft and own flotillas, but AI is not clever enough to do the same for me, so I can stack my whole fleet under flotilla and make hit-and-run attacks from it's cover. And are flotillas able to transport too? if so I agree with Bob1475 about the poor landigs of AI.
About my current playtest, I have now taken rest of Scandinavia and Turkey and paratroopers are assaulting the last Creek city at Crete. Now I'm preparing for operation Barbarossa, but it will be mid 1940 before my factories have built enough panzers for massive offensive that will crush soviet defences in one turn ;).
And Japanese are really conquering in this game, they have allready taken china and are now on their way to India, thay allso made RoP with Soviets and started attacking british in persia, so far 1 city razed :sad:.
That's it for now, I'll provide you with some screenies when Barbarossa is started.
 
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