WW2-Global

[Grizx]

Rocoteh,

Some feedback on my USA SID Ver 1.5 Game

1. AI's are producing only Destroyer, Flotillas, - no other naval units except for Germany's automated U boat production.
2. Britain now has 95 Destroyer flotillas and counting.
3. The are now only 3 German U-boats in the game, 2 VII, one IX.
4. The only other subs in the game are US subs (me) and 40 USSR subs in port at Sevatopol.
5. Becasue of the Destroyer Flotilla ability to transport infantry, Britain has produced no tanks - or at least has none in the game now.
6. Japan does not have any tanks either. That may be more becasue of Marine SNLF than becasue of Destroyer Flotillas, but hard to tell.

I have stoppped my game because it has turned into something other than a WWII scenario.

I am going to try a new game with some changes to destroyer flotillas

1939 Destroyer Flotilla
Cost = 400 shields vice 300
Movement - 7 instead of 8
Attack Strength - 11 instead of 16
Defense Strength - 8 instead of 10
Bonus to Hit - 5 instead of 20
Rate of fire 1 - instead of 2
Air Defense 1 - instead of 3
Transport 1 Inf
Blitz capability
All other characteristics the same

1941 Destroyer Flotilla
500 Shields vice 450
Movement - 8 instead of 9
Attack Strength - 12 instead of 18
Defense Strength - 9 instead of 12
Bonus to Hit - 6 instead of 20
Rate of fire 2 - instead of 3
Air Defense 2 - instead of 3
Blitz capability

By dropping the stats down to just slightly above the equivalent 1393 and 1941 DD's
but giving the Flotillas the blitz I hope to simulate more closely several ships in a flotilla/squadron. Don't know if it will work but I am going to test it.

On the 1941 DD Flotillas, I have given them stats just above the 1939 Flotillas to allow for possible introduction of 1942 and 1944 DD and DD flotilla classes. If those 1942 and 1944 DD classes are not added to the game then I would tweak the 1941 DD Flotilla up a bit. But for a play test this should suffice.

Not sure what to do about Britain not building any tanks. And Japan too. Hopefull the high cost and slower speed may persuade the AI's to build transports. Otherwise, might drop the ability of DD flotillas to transport troops to solve the Britain problem and then give Japan a certain number of special DD flotillas capable of carry troops a the start but unable to produce any more.

If the AI persists in building just DD flotillas even with the new stats, then I would be in favor of dropping DD Flotillas althogether. DD flotillas might just be a good idea that does not fit into this scenario because of game engine limitations. AS far as the naval war goes, Ver 1.3 was really pretty good.

To compensate Germany for the DD flotillas I am going to give the U-boats back the blitz.

I'll let you know what happens.

Grizx

 

[Bob1475]

I am nearing the end of 1940 in my Japan game and will post a report soon. However, I have two things I wanted to post.

1. Destroyer Flotilla - This unit is causing some strange activity by the AI and from my point of view adds little to the game. AI is building Destroyer Flotilla and attempting landings with only one unit. Yes, I know AI does that sometimes with transport but on the other hand sometimes its loads the transport. I am not seeing loaded transports with the Destroyer Flotilla available and AI is not building BBs. Net of this is that the unit should be removed from the game to give the AI a chance and make it a more realistic game.

2. Mobilization - Having recently learned that I can build libraries and marketplaces with mobilization I have used it in my Japan game. I admit to not using Mobilization much in regular games so maybe what I am about to write is not news but I cannot build Intelligence Agency while in Mobilization which does not make sense to me.

More importantly while playing Japan under Mobilization I noticed that the extra shield effect does not apply to all units. I have tested this on all Japan units I have with the following results:

UNIT Mobilization Production Bonus?

Heavy Artillery No
J Militia Yes
Shokaku Class Carrier No
39 Destroyer Flotilla No
Special Transport No
Artillery No
J Infantry No
Type 97 Yes
Type 95 Yes
J Marine Yes
Type 99 No
Flak Yes
Yamato No
Transport No
Paratrooper Yes
Zero Yes
Carrier No
Sub Yes
39 Destroyer Yes
Carrier C2 No
Light Cruiser Yes
Heavy Cruiser Yes
AA Cruiser Yes
D3AVal No
Sally No
Nate Yes
Kate No
Recon No
Zero Yes

I honestly can't see a pattern here. You modders probably know how to do this. If this is true in other civs it is something to consider when you view the cost of a unit. May explain why AI has loved the marines and paras?
What is going on here?

 

[Overlag]

just great.......for some totaly unknown reason Italy declared war on the USSR, and now, im just watching Russian tanks, who was in my borders already, just take city after city in the middle east.

Italy has yet to even take a city in this game, other than crete and cyprus

WTH!

 

[Elponitnatsnoc]

Hi, I followed the download instructions but i cant seem to find the scenario anywhere in the "civ content" or "scenarios" section of the menu. This the first one iv ever dled so im a noob at this. Please help

This looks great, im really looking forward to playing it,

 

[Grizx]

LPBP

Regarding the Iowa Blitz:

Each country in the scenario has different and asymmetrical strengths and weaknesses. I believe it is these asymetrical differences which give this scenario its character and appeal, and make it such a fun and challenging scenario to play.

Yes, the Iowa with the blitz is a very powerful naval unit. It gives the US a tremendous advantage on the sea. On the other hand, Germany has much better tanks units much earlier in the the game than the US. Germany's challenge is to figure out how to take advantage of its panzer strength and how to overcome the US advantage of the Iowas. The US challenge is to figure out how the Iowas can be used to best advantage and how the German superioity in high quality tank units can be overcome when the US has decidedly inferior tank units.

The US has a potential long-term economic advantage and a severe ground unit disadvantage at the beginning. Germany has a significant ground and air unit adavantage early in the game, but a weak surface navy and a potentially serious long term economic disadvantage. Germany must figure out how to use its air/ground superiority at the beginning to overcome its potential economic and naval disadvantage.

Britain has a strong navy to start and some very good air units. But it is spread all over the globe. It will have a very hard time winning unless it can move troops by sea. Britain has exterior lines of communication vulnerable to German U-boats while Germany has internal lines of communication and can potentially win the game without a navy. Britain is a sea power, Germany is a land power. The US, is to all intents and purposes, an island nation and needs to control the sea to win.

The genius of this scenario is how well it reflects these, and other, overarching historical realities.

I tend to think that Iowas with the blitz contibute to this overarching pattern of asymetric challenges with makes the scenario so good.

For the record, I also think German U-boats should have the blitz.

I think that we should be careful that in discussing the desired capabilities of individual units that we not get so bogged down in myopic technical detail that we lose sight of the overall scenario and that it is a global scenario.

Take S-boats. I have nothing against S-boats. The Germans certainly used them. But on the global Richter Scale in WWII, they hardly registered. If S-boats can be added to the scenario without messing it up, fine. They can add flavor at the very least. However, Germany has only so many port cities. What is the Ai going to build? If it decides it likes S-boats it will likely build a ton of them instead of U-boats and other naval units. The dominant naval units in WWII were obviously BB's, CA's, CV's, CL's, DD's and submarines. Those were the biggies at sea, and in a global scenario, those should be the key players in the scenario. Yes, the AI may end up building a historically unrealist number of any one of them, but at least it will be building historically realistic key units in the global war.

For another example, take the DD Flotillas. A very good concept. Probably most DD's in WWII acted and fought as part of some larger squadron, flotilla, or fleet. The Japanese most definitely used them to carry infantry. The Germans too (Norway). However, in their current configuration they have completely unbalanced the game. They have totally overpowerd the U-boats very early. They can sink battleships regularly.

All AI's have found them to be so good they have produced no other types of naval units. That includes troop transports. Since DDF's can carry troops. why build transports? And since DDF's cant carry tanks, the British and Japanese AI's have decided not to make tanks, putitng them at a further disadvantage on the ground.

With no tanks and 95 DDF's so far in the scenario, Britain rules the waves and has lost most of Africa. And the AI's no longer make the battleships, cruisers, destroyers, carriers and transports which made the war at sea so interesting and historically realistic.

A couple of other thoughts: Iowa battleships cannot capture Moscow or Berlin. The blitz can easily be turned off in the editor if we don't want it for a particular game, so I would rather start with it on, knowing I can eeasily switch it off.

Also, Version 1.3 was pretty damn good. With a fix to the DDF's, 1.6 will be even better. A truly excellent scenario relatively soon is still better than a perfect scenario 2 weeks before Civ 4 comes out.

Those are just my thoughts, and I don't mean to sound like I have all the answers. Rocoteh must be rolling his eyes when newbies like me come up with things he has considered 10 times over.

Grizx

 

[Bob1475]

Just discovered that Japan armies can have three units? At last marines? When did that happen and how do you mod an army for one civ? I guess this was part of Rocoteh responding to concerns about Japan's ability to survive. Just have to discover all this stuff as you play.

 

[Bob1475]

Japan - v 1.5 - Emperor
1940 Report

As reported at the end of the previous year our land forces had met major goals during 1939 although we had reversals in naval engagements. The War Council had decided to primarily support action on the Asian mainland during 1940 with the goal of reducing the threat from the Soviet Union with the proviso that our naval forces be rebuilt and ready to take the offensive in 1941.

I am pleased to report excellent progress during 1940. At the beginning of the year we took Nanning and razed HongKong which met the primary goal of pushing back the British forces and coupled with the 1939 seizure of the Phillipines essentially protected the homeland from naval attack from the South.

Our European friends did not do as well. While the Germans have taken three French cities they have been unable to make progress. The Russians and the Germans did not make much progress against each other except that the Russians did eliminate the Finns and took Damascus while the French took Basra thereby eliminating the German threat to the British. We have noted increased British pressure in Asia after the German reversals in the Middle East. The Italians are slowly losing North African cities (down to one) but are holding there own in East Africa. We wonder how they will do without a German threat.

For the above reasons we must move against the Russians and British to try and support the Germans. However we will make modest offensive moves against the Americans to keep them busy.

During primarily the first half of the year our forces continued their steady progress so that we have taken all of Vietnam. freed the Thai city of Nakhan Ratchasisma from the Dutch and also taken Batang and Kumming. This left the Chinese in the mountains and we did not seriously pursue them as they are no longer a threat.

We established a program of continuous bombing of the British held cities of Rangoon, Mandalay and Myitkyana which along with additional air attacks on targets of opportunity kept the British from being any problem for us during the year. This allowed us to build forces for the inevitable war with Russia.

During the spring we built our road so that we could be in a position to take the Infantry Wonder city of Alma Alta when the war began. In late June the Russians declared war on the Germans and we launched our attack with first goal me in week 31 with the seizure of Alma Alta. Holding this and its sister city of Lepinsk our forces surged in two pincers and as you know we now hold all of the eastern part of the former Soviet Union. Unfortunately most of these cities are small but they still represent significant territory. Our attack was stalled at Novosibirsk but in the meantime we have taken almost all of the rest of our targets with no Russian access to the Pacific.

With the gradual rebuilding of our naval forces we held back any American or British attacks with the exception of the loss of the Marcus Islands in week 12. We have a carrier force near there and have eliminated any American forces on the island but have chosen not to occupy until we are ready to take the offensive in the Pacific.

As the year ended we had a peace agreement with Russian and took the offensive against the British and easily took Rangoon. The Russians then declared war on Germany and are attacking with significant armor towards Ansi and Lanchow. Our Russian infantry from Alma Alta are doing well in slowing down this advance until we can redeploy artillery and air.

Our Army complains of increasingly powerful units coming from the British and Russians while we can only improve our naval and air units. However, our marines are doing well in all fronts and we look forward to sweeping the Russians back and pushing the Americans back to Hawaii.

 

[Grizx]

For anyone whpo might have answers

Questions on mobilization.

I have never used it much so these questions may seem pretty basic.

1. Civilopedia says mobilzation, once selected applies to all cities ina Civ. Is there any way to mobilize just one city?

2. Is there any way in the editor to turn off the mobilization ability for a scenario?

3. The civilopedia says that once mobilized a civ cannot demobilize untel peace is made. In this scenario with lots of locked alliances and locked enemies, could it be the AI is getting stuck in mobilization mode and would that explain why it sometimes does not seem top make many improvements to its cities?

4. If a civ/city mobilizes and has a barracks does it still produce a veteran unit?

Thanks
Grizx

 

[Bob1475]

Grizx - I may have started this but I do know a little.

1. Civs go inot mobilization, not cities, just like gold vs knowledge decisions.

2. Don't know.

3. Coud be that AI can get stuck. Hoewever, given all the little wars that go on they can get out. All you need to get out is ONE peace treaty. Even if you are at war with four civs, the moment you sign a peace treaty with one the mobilization ends i.e. US at war with AXIS,mobilizes, declares war on Venezuela, signs peace treaty with Venezuela, mobilization ends.

4. Mobilization has no effect on veterans - still need a barracks.

 

[Sasebo]

Grizx: Don't know for sure on #2, but I suspect you might be able to turn it off. What you suggest for DDF's sounds reasonable so far, let's see what Rocoteh thinks. I have yet to fight them myself, but would think with defence of 10 they would be easily defeatable. Yes, you will lose some units, but you should win. Especially units with good attack, like SS,CL and CA or better. I would rather keep the current stats, drop the transport ability, and maybe introduce an early unit with a limited number of DDF(DDF 1938?) with the transport ability to start, not buildable otherwise. I think Germany should be on that list since I think they used DDs as tranports at Narvik at least that I remember.

Rocoteh: I see from some other's 1.5 reports that Japan at least still loves to build Marines. A lot of that is probably the improved stats/DDF Infantry transport, but I am really starting to feel that the AI places high value on hit point bonuses when choosing what to build, as well as overall stats. It would explain the AI's love of Paras/Marines and the DDF at least; they are all high hp bonus units. Germany likes the SS Inf for that reason too I bet. I would like to see a test with the the Para/Marine units reduced to the same bonus as regular Inf.(+2) to see what the AI would build then. For Paras at least that would be realistic too, since they are fairly light on equipment;their stats can reflect their excellent training.

I think if you fiddle with the DDF like I suggested above you might be able to keep the stats as they are now, I would like to see them with more then +5 hp as Grizx suggests,but if you give them more then BB they may not build any BB. If the AI still builds them then giving the Type VII back the blitz might be warrented. Also, I don't see many times when that would have been a factor for me, Adler17 has a lot more luck then I do with them.

Oh, and yes the Royal Navy gave me the royal treatment. My entire Fleet off Gibralter sunk: 1 BB,1 CA,1 CL,2 DD,9 Type VII,1 Type IX. They gave me a turn's reprieve, so I decided to try and get a fleet into the Med, instead of running North to Brest. I guessed wrong. We did wipe out a further 8 SS and 6 DD, but I am still not happy about it. Losing my Heavy ships was not worth it! My sole surviving Capital class ship is the Scharnhorst, which defied the Royal Navy and ran back to the Baltic from Iceland despite their fleets having a possibility of catching it. After the loss of our fleet, our navy had to save face somehow. We also ran a strong fleet of U boats and escorts to Brest through the Channel right under the noses of the UK, and our tiny squadron in the Eastern Med participated in the Amphibious assault on Suez.

Yes,Suez. The UK has shown unexpected weakness in the Middle East. I hap planned on just holding Turkey and Damascus, but small probes, and no opposition to my large air forces there have changed matters. I currently hold Tikrit, Amman, Jerusalem, Suez, and I chose to raze El Alemein, which was another amphibious attack from Crete. When the UK puts air into the nearby cities, my bombers destroy them before they can get set up to defend. Italy has lost only the tip of East Africa(1 city), so the Med east of Malta is "Axis lake".

I have an idea why German AI does so poorly in France. France has excellent Vet. Infantry; in their large cities(+100% def.),especially on the hills(+80% def.), they are more then a match for most German offensive units. I use armies, and it is still hard, I almost lost several armies in fights to single veteran Inf. units. Without massive support from it's air units, it is going to be a tough job for German AI to take Paris, there are like 7-8 artillery in there! ...which makes it even harder, naturally.

After I got them into my controlled territory,and out of fighter support range, I started bombing the Maginot Line. The Forts died frighteningly fast! I have no explanation for this, even on rough terrain the Heinkels and Ju88s wrecked them easily.

 

[clearbeard]

@Grizx
Questions on mobilization.

I have never used it much so these questions may seem pretty basic.

1. No, whole civ only

2. Yes. The ability to mobilize comes with a given tech, a flag set in the editor for advances. If no tech available in a scenario has the mobilization flag checked, than it is not possible. Similarly, it can be enabled for only specific civs by giving them a non-tradable tech that allows it, and not to others.

3. All the improvements (except a couple overlooked that should be fixed in 1.6) can be built in this scenario while mobilized. As for de-mobilizing, it is actually automatic when ANY peace treaty is signed, such as with Spain or another neutral. You have to re-mobilize manually if you want to after signing any such treaty. I'd tend to think that the AI actually gets stuck not mobilizing, which is why it seems to struggle so when it's initial units are defeated.

4. Vetran depends on having a barracks, mobilization does not effect this.


One other thing I've found, something of a "cheat" perhaps, but....
If you build a military unit, you get the production bonus. If you switch to anything else on the last turn of production, say something with about the same shield cost, the bonus shields stay, so you can effectively build ANYTHING at the mobilized rate! It takes a bit of micromanagment, but really just scanning down the list on the domestic advisor and looking for any unit with one turn to completion, and changing it to what you want.

 

[soldierblue2]

SiT rep as Dec 31st 1939 for British Commonwealth Forces and world situation WWII

Europe: The BEF abandons it's airfield in France and returns to Plymouth. Poland Falls early and Amsterdam is razed (Germans can't use the port-good). Paris Falls in Wk 50 1939 and Brest is under seige. RAF bombers (approx half) lost in raids over France. Fighters beat back one German raid (Battle of Britain won?) and since then no German planes have been sighted.

After fall of Copenhagen and Rekyavik exposed: Britain had to take Iceland (strategic importance) in case German forces did same.

Naval: German fleet destroyed and Italian fleet in Med decimated (mainly by France and Spain). Battle of Malta sees Royal Navy defeat the Italian fleet.

Africa: Italy loses all African bases except Addis Ababa.

Middle East: Turks declare war on everyone and attack Damascus. France retaliates and takes Adana and Izmir. In wk 50 Brits take Erzurum and negotiate a peace settlement with Turks.

Asia: Looking bad: Japanese have pushed china back and threaten Mandalay and Rangoon (did not expect Burma battles until 1941) Thailand city of Nakon Rat taken by Chinese and then by Japanese. Hanoi and Hue fall and France only has Saigon left.
Brits: Took Singora but unsure if can hold it. Hong Kong under threat. New Guinea falls and Port Moresby is under seige.

Naval: Nippon fleet terrorises the area and is threatening Singapore. American fleet arrives near Hong Kong.

Borneo, Palemberg, and The phillipines fall to Japanese.

The situation in the far east is looking desparate but troops from Australia should arrive in Port Moresby in Wk 2 1940

*** Has anyone got any tips on how to slow down the Japanese advance. I don't seem to have any tropps that can stand up to them ***

Long time before a Matilda can be built anywhere and so may not be able to defend Burma and malaysia.

(How realistic is this game??? - brilliant Scenario)

 

[oljb007]

Japan 1.5 Diety
Wk 51 1939

Sent 2/3s of starting navy to Wake and took it. then encountered US Navy, took out 3 Carriers 3BB's and some supporting escorts. Then entered about 8-10 CC's. Retreated to Wake where I rushed a harbor and redirected majority of airforce. Bombarded and sank about 7CC's and sent 3 BB's (flagships) back to hawaii for repairs. All told, only lost 1BB, moderate amount of subs and DD's and about 6 aircract, that kinda hurt.

Redistributed remaining air power to mainland and began pushing on china. Have taken all mainland China to the hills with the exception of Kumming, which will fall in 2-3 weeks. Hong Kong is in the midst of constant air bombardment. Also Took Hue and Saigon, all of the philipines, Borneo and At Surabaya, the other city on that Island will fall before '40.

Transports are in route to bring troops for Medan, Padan and that 3rd city down there.

Taking the easy cities first then hitting the British colonies afterwords. Mainland China is in infastructure building phase which is going well.

US hit mainland Japan with BB, DDF and cruiser, one marine attack and then left! (well, except the marine! )

Germany has made no inroads to France but took Poland quickly. Italy has not major city changes either. Must be big navy battle!

Thanks again Roc this awesome!

 

[clearbeard]

*** Has anyone got any tips on how to slow down the Japanese advance. I don't seem to have any tropps that can stand up to them ***

Long time before a Matilda can be built anywhere and so may not be able to defend Burma and malaysia.

(How realistic is this game??? - brilliant Scenario)

How to stave off Japan as the UK:

Get your rail line connected from the cities in Africa all the way to Singapore, and take at least Hanoi to connect up to Hong Kong if possible. I have over 250 workers worldwide, and it only takes 12 to railroad a plains tile, so by this point I've connected every city, and am working on production improvements in key areas. Also, finish off the Italians in Africa ASAP, and hunt down the remainder of the Italian fleet to free up your Med fleet for other operations. With those steps, you can strip the bases in Africa bare, and quickly re-deploy anywhere in Asia. I've also built a line of fortifications in the mountains above Mandalay, which so far has kept the SNLF Marines bottled up with their consuests of China. Your combined infantry and artillery with a few bombers re-based from Britain and the few armor units you start with (I dropped off two transports full of re-inforcements from Britain, Gibraltar, and Malta in North Africa, to help the cause) should be sufficient to keep Japan from making much headway. By the end of first quarter 1940 I smashed a group of about 12 Japanese marines that I lured with unprotected workers finishing the road to Hong Kong, which is the bulk of Japan's offensive forces (confirmed by my inflitrator: I'd suggest building the Intelligence agency with your first GL, so you only have to de-mobilize for a single turn). Hope this helps!

 

[clearbeard]

Here's a screenshot of my game in southeast Asia. Note (if you can tell at this resolution zoomed out) the stack in the fortress near Hong Kong, and the BB's off the coast of Singapore bombing to destruction the air units Japan rebased to Palembang.

 

[Adler17]

Rocoteh, please forget what I said. I don´t have the unit (as I thought) and at CDG all DL links are removed. I don´t know where to get them from. Perhaps asking wyrm directly...

Adler

 

[clearbeard]

More importantly while playing Japan under Mobilization I noticed that the extra shield effect does not apply to all units. I have tested this on all Japan units I have with the following results:

The pattern is this: Buildings with the "militaristic" flag checked are buildable while mobilized. In vanilla civ that's only things like barracks, harbors, walls, etc., while here it's everything that wasn't accidentally overlooked (like the Intelligence Agency). For units, they MUST have non-zero attack AND defense values to get the bonus. I think that they also must have at least one of the offense, defense, naval power, or air defense AI strategy flags checked, and I also think they cannot have any others. Thus no artillery or bombers will get it, nor do transports or carriers. That explains almost all of what you observed, with a couple exceptions I can't fully explain:

-The DD flotillas do not, but seems they should. This is what leads me to believe having AI strategy flags other than the three listed above nixes the bonus.
-Japanese Infantry definitely should, are you sure here? My British Infantry gets it. I have no clue why Japanese Inf wouldn't.
-Yamato is lacking the Naval Power AI flag, which it should have. This will also prevent the AI from building them!

I think that's all of them. Hope it clarifies things. Please double check the Jap Inf though, I can't figure that one out!

@Rocoteh
Make a note of the Yamato not having Naval Power. This should be fixed, else they will NEVER be built by the AI.

 

[Adler17]

Week 46:
I captured Gwador, which was not defended and also in Africa Ouessa. My African campaign is running excellently. I regrouped and turned over to the PC:

PC:
The Allied fleet is heading to the North sea. I will sent my planes to Hamburg but after sinking the three US BB that bomb Lisbon again and again and again.
Stalin blackmails Wines. I give it to him because I do not have the potential to fight on two fronts. First I will take Africa and then Old Joe can make his testament.
Finally Bismarck and Graf Zeppelin are ready.

Adler

 

[clearbeard]

Funny realism note:

Having commissioned my second KGV battleship, I thought I'd look around the net and find what the later ships of the class were named. Having found that information, I thought it quite amusing to note how long your typical battleship like the King George V took to build: about 3-5 years. In game time from laying the keel to commissioning: 7 weeks in London!

 

[Adler17]

Week 47:
Gwadar is taken. Quetta is taken by infantry. There a new leader is created.
In Africa Leopoldville and Brazzaville are taken. Yaundé is also mine. Nairobi was hard to conquer becaue of the mountaineous area. However no losses there (although it was tough). Therefore Libreville is taken without big problems.
In the North sea 2 British DD are sunk. USS Texas, New York and Arkansas are history. They are sunk by my Luftwaffe. My Uboat flotilla in Brest sinks 4 US DD.

To be continued.

Adler