WW2-Global

[oljb007]

Germany 1.7 SID

1939
wk 36: took amsterdam
wk 37: took Brussels, Danzig and Warsaw (polls are gone)
wk 38: took out british airfield and planes
wk 39: Took Paris, Istanbul and Brest
wk 40: Took Ankara, Samsun and Izmin (turkish)
wk 41: Took Adana and Belgrade
wk 42: Took Antalyz (razed), Trabzan, Erzurum
wk 43: Took Damascus
wk 44: Took Lyon (very costly)
wk 45-46: troop movements and repositiong
wk 47: Took Bordeaux and Tabrix

russia Declared war on Japanesse, repositioned military in preparation and all air power

wk 48: russia attacks japan and we go to war
wk 49: Took Lublin and Vinius (russian)

Counter attack was moderate/minimal but almost lost vinius. redistributed some ME 109's to Turkey for air defense againts brits.

wk 50/51: hammering Soviet troop positions and trying to shore up defenses. All lines are holding and its obvious Russia ran out of Marines as they began attacking with some cosacs and inf

 

[Rocoteh]

Germany 1.7 SID

1939
wk 36: took amsterdam
wk 37: took Brussels, Danzig and Warsaw (polls are gone)
wk 38: took out british airfield and planes
wk 39: Took Paris, Istanbul and Brest
wk 40: Took Ankara, Samsun and Izmin (turkish)
wk 41: Took Adana and Belgrade
wk 42: Took Antalyz (razed), Trabzan, Erzurum
wk 43: Took Damascus
wk 44: Took Lyon (very costly)
wk 45-46: troop movements and repositiong
wk 47: Took Bordeaux and Tabrix

russia Declared war on Japanesse, repositioned military in preparation and all air power

wk 48: russia attacks japan and we go to war
wk 49: Took Lublin and Vinius (russian)

Counter attack was moderate/minimal but almost lost vinius. redistributed some ME 109's to Turkey for air defense againts brits.

wk 50/51: hammering Soviet troop positions and trying to shore up defenses. All lines are holding and its obvious Russia ran out of Marines as they began attacking with some cosacs and inf

oljb007,

Thank you for the report.
It seems like you have a good start for the playtest.

In version 1.8 the Marine unit will only be available from auto-production.
it will no longer be available to China, not even from auto-production.

I am also considering to remove the grassland-tile west of Istanbul
and replace it with a coastal-tile.(With a minefield)
This way Germany-AI will hopefully attack Soviet instead of going
for Turkey.

Welcome back.

Rocoteh

 

[andis-1]

I am also considering to remove the grassland-tile west of Istanbul and replace it with a coastal-tile.(With a minefield)
This way Germany-AI will hopefully attack Soviet instead of going
for Turkey.

I doubt that alone will work, since German AI just makes RoP with Soviets and attacks from north. BUT, if you place garrisons to those areas in the pic Germans wont' be able to attack mid-east and turkey untill they take Soviets.

 

[Rocoteh]

andis-1,

Very good idea!

I will test it.

Rocoteh

 

[oljb007]

im starting to relise a great mistake i made.

going after the middle east and africa (french/uk cities) first, felt really easy and a clever thing to do, but right now my panzer IIIg's are no match for russians T34s. im loosing pretty much every battle in defence and attack. Im in a rush to research for the panthers, which is 13 turns away and the war will probably be over by then.

The only thing ive been able to do is draw all my armies back to the Russian front, and take some cities that way. I will also use my Ju88s/109s/190s to take out most of the russian roads so if peace IS declared before my panthers come online, at least ive done some damage to russia.

the hint out of this? you gota kill russia faster. Its still possible i guess now, but its much harder!
__________________
From Adam Webb, Overlag

This is historically accurate! I dont recall what the meetings were called but German top Brass and Hitler discussed their military advantage, how long it would last and how best to use it. Opening the Eastern front was a turning point in the war and if you recall Germans had huge success in the beginning pushing the Russians all the way back to Moscow's door step. Had Germany only started their operation as originally planned, early summer instead of the 2-3 months later they may have made it all the way to moscow. But then Russia's greatest ally came to play, winter! And the rest is history. So, it would seem as though you have recreated one of WWII's big blunders! You gave russia time to arm!

Wouldn't weather be an awesome feature in Civ4, seasons, climates! :O

 

[Rocoteh]

The Marine unit can no longer be produced.
It will be auto-produced in Britain, France, Germany, Italy and Japan.
Thus its no longer avaolable to China.

The British Commando will now also only be auto-produced.

Static Soviet Garrison units will make it impossible for Germany
to make a ROP with Soviet and then attack Turkey from Caucasus.

4 Fortress units placed west of Istanbul should also make a German
invasion of Turkey less interesting.

The idea with all this is of course to make Germany-AI to go
for Soviet instead of Turkey.

10 more victory point locations have also been placed in Russia.

Rocoteh

 

[Bob1475]

Rocoteh -

I have serious questions regarding your changes to ver 1.8 re Germans and Turkey. First we need to acknowledge that Turkey is in a key geographic position in a Global fight. Therefore it is logical that it will be attacked by someone. (In my games it is usually the French who have the first war with Turkey and take a few cities - later the Russians come to take out Turkey). Therefore I don't think it is appropriate to block only the Germans - this gives a further advantage to the Russians, French, British, etc.

I also don't like the idea of using Fortress units to attempt to block the flow of units - it will have unexpected results. I would prefer eliminating roads through the Caucasus.
I would suggest it is just as likely that the Germans will go to Greece or some other neutral. They want to avoid Russia because of the risks and running two front war. If you want them to fight the Russians then put them in the alliance - if not allow them to make whatever mistakes or errors that they bump into - it isn't that the attack on Russia was the greatest stroke of Hitler's military career!

 

[Rocoteh]

Rocoteh -

I have serious questions regarding your changes to ver 1.8 re Germans and Turkey. First we need to acknowledge that Turkey is in a key geographic position in a Global fight. Therefore it is logical that it will be attacked by someone. (In my games it is usually the French who have the first war with Turkey and take a few cities - later the Russians come to take out Turkey). Therefore I don't think it is appropriate to block only the Germans - this gives a further advantage to the Russians, French, British, etc.

I also don't like the idea of using Fortress units to attempt to block the flow of units - it will have unexpected results. I would prefer eliminating roads through the Caucasus.
I would suggest it is just as likely that the Germans will go to Greece or some other neutral. They want to avoid Russia because of the risks and running two front war. If you want them to fight the Russians then put them in the alliance - if not allow them to make whatever mistakes or errors that they bump into - it isn't that the attack on Russia was the greatest stroke of Hitler's military career!

Bob1475,

Turkish Special Fortress units have also been placed at the Russian
border and the border with French controlled Syria.

I think its very realistic that Soviet units now stop German units
from moving through Russia to attack Turkey.
Such a move is 100% unrealistic.

Rocoteh

 

[oljb007]

i messed this all up.

 

[Overlag]

just as i started to make advances, italy declared peace! aarrrrrrrg i hate that

 

[oljb007]

Bob1475,

Turkish Special Fortress units have also been placed at the Russian
border and the border with French controlled Syria.

I think its very realistic that Soviet units now stop German units
from moving through Russia to attack Turkey.
Such a move is 100% unrealistic.

Rocoteh

This is true regarding german troops moving through russia.

However, I believe that Turkey should still be a viable option for Germany. Its widely debated that Germany should have pushed to the middle east then attacked Russian from the south and quickly taken control of her oil fields north of turkey. this would have been dire for russia to get back in the fight.

However, in the realistic world, this option was "tougher" as a result of moving tanks and heavy equipment over the rugged Turkish mountains. This could be simulated by removing RR's and limiting/reducing the roads over those mountains.

So i am against blocking turkey!

 

[Rocoteh]

This is true regarding german troops moving through russia.

However, I believe that Turkey should still be a viable option for Germany. Its widely debated that Germany should have pushed to the middle east then attacked Russian from the south and quickly taken control of her oil fields north of turkey. this would have been dire for russia to get back in the fight.

However, in the realistic world, this option was "tougher" as a result of moving tanks and heavy equipment over the rugged Turkish mountains. This could be simulated by removing RR's and limiting/reducing the roads over those mountains.

So i am against blocking turkey!

oljb007,

A German attack on Turkey will not be blocked!

Rocoteh

 

[andis-1]

Hey, this is not complete blockade of Turkey . It's not an issue for human player to take down those fortresses. Couple ju87's will do the job. But this way we can re-direct AI to attack Soviets, what is more realistic than attacking mid-east and conquering africa.
Rocotech, since German AI is so poor making any effective attacks, you could make own version for it. Adding some extra units and lowering costs of tanks, planes etc. should make them more dangerous. If those don't help, then make some wonder that raises production in all german cities 100-200%. Just some thoughts.

 

[Sasebo]

Just a few comments on the recent discussions. On the Escort Fighter idea; I would say play test it first to see what use the AI makes of it, I see the AI use Me-109s say to bomb all the time. So they do sometimes use "escorts", but it is only luck if they send in the fighters first. If a specialized class will correct the AIs use, and if the AI will build them in the first place that kind of unit would be good, but that is a couple of big "if's".

If you mean Special Fortress and not the big 0-70-1 types then that is not too bad an idea for the Turkish situation. The AI does tend to avoid the big ones. I like the idea of the static garrisons, I do that all the time in games so I can have mobility and still block the AI from using my roads. One pitfall I see is the German/Italian/Finns will not see said garrisons until they come into view,but at least they won't waste much time since they will have free use of the roads. I am curious to see what the Axis will do when they find they are boxed in!

Germany seems to do well in France as soon as they get the Panzer IIIg unit. I did not see you mention the Soviets getting the Marine autoproduction in 1.8 but since it is already there I assume you will leave it in? You have the interval set well I think. Are you going to do the same thing for Airborne? I've seen the AI use airdrops so it would be a shame to lose them, but I don't think you have much choice of the AI insists on being stupid. Only the US, UK, Germany, and Soviets used major Airborne units, correct???

 

[Rocoteh]

Hey, this is not complete blockade of Turkey . It's not an issue for human player to take down those fortresses. Couple ju87's will do the job. But this way we can re-direct AI to attack Soviets, what is more realistic than attacking mid-east and conquering africa.
Rocotech, since German AI is so poor making any effective attacks, you could make own version for it. Adding some extra units and lowering costs of tanks, planes etc. should make them more dangerous. If those don't help, then make some wonder that raises production in all german cities 100-200%. Just some thoughts.

andis-1,

Yes, I will probably make a version with a strong Germany-AI.

I am surprised that there were some very negative reactions so fast,
since the idea is not to make Turkey an unplayable area!.
The intention is to make AI to play in a way that more simulates
historical patterns. Its hard for me to see what is wrong with that.
In reality Stalin would never, I repeat never would have allowed
German troops in transit move over Russian soil!

Rocoteh

 

[Rocoteh]

Just a few comments on the recent discussions. On the Escort Fighter idea; I would say play test it first to see what use the AI makes of it, I see the AI use Me-109s say to bomb all the time. So they do sometimes use "escorts", but it is only luck if they send in the fighters first. If a specialized class will correct the AIs use, and if the AI will build them in the first place that kind of unit would be good, but that is a couple of big "if's".

If you mean Special Fortress and not the big 0-70-1 types then that is not too bad an idea for the Turkish situation. The AI does tend to avoid the big ones. I like the idea of the static garrisons, I do that all the time in games so I can have mobility and still block the AI from using my roads. One pitfall I see is the German/Italian/Finns will not see said garrisons until they come into view,but at least they won't waste much time since they will have free use of the roads. I am curious to see what the Axis will do when they find they are boxed in!

Germany seems to do well in France as soon as they get the Panzer IIIg unit. I did not see you mention the Soviets getting the Marine autoproduction in 1.8 but since it is already there I assume you will leave it in? You have the interval set well I think. Are you going to do the same thing for Airborne? I've seen the AI use airdrops so it would be a shame to lose them, but I don't think you have much choice of the AI insists on being stupid. Only the US, UK, Germany, and Soviets used major Airborne units, correct???

Sasebo,

On Escort-fighters: Yes, I agree. It will need much playtesting.

In Russia there will be a line of low-value Garrison units with only
one role to fill: To block German ROP moves.
The Turkish borders will be defended by a combination of fortress
and special fortress units. The intention is that Axis, Allied and Soviet (AI)
all shall abstain from attacking Turkey.

Clarification on the Marine unit: Yes Soviet will get it from auto-production
also.

On Airborne units: In addition to the nation you mention, Italy Japan
and France can produce it also.
I will probably make Airborne units auto-production only also.

Otherwise there is a high risk that AI will mass-produce Airborne
units instead of Marines.

Rocoteh

 

[allin1joe]

Sasebo,

On Escort-fighters: Yes, I agree. It will need much playtesting.

In Russia there will be a line of low-value Garrison units with only
one role to fill: To block German ROP moves.
The Turkish borders will be defended by a combination of fortress
and special fortress units. The intention is that Axis, Allied and Soviet (AI)
all shall abstain from attacking Turkey.

Clarification on the Marine unit: Yes Soviet will get it from auto-production
also.

On Airborne units: In addition to the nation you mention, Italy Japan
and France can produce it also.
I will probably make Airborne units auto-production only also.

Otherwise there is a high risk that AI will mass-produce Airborne
units instead of Marines.

Rocoteh

Overall, it sounds good to me. In my game as the Germans, the Italians have sent a TON of troops through Russia. I have no idea where they are going, but it'll help me when I actually declare on them. The Italians will be in position to take the brunt of the Russian counter attack However, it would be nice not to see that happen any longer.

As for my game, I have taken all of Europe and am in the process of re-positioning my troops into 3 invasion armies into Russia. One in the north (was on the border of 2 cities, but Lwow got a cultural expansion), one central and one south. I've decided to abandon the non-draft house rule and started to draft to fill in each army with some infantry. If I remember right, we are in week 47 of 1939. I should be ready to start the invasion by week 50. I lost a healthy amount of airforce battling the French, British and Americans on my road west. I'm hoping to have enough to fend off the Russian Air Force, but it'll be close.

The British have lost about 5 Battleships and a host of other ships to my U-Boats (but I did take heavy losses). The Americans lost a Carrier, 3 Battleships and a couple of Heavy Cruisers(with some other minor losses too). That fleet was bombarding the northern Spanish city (the allies were at war with Spain) when I captured it, so I moved my fleet over to sink them. If I remember right, I only have about 10 U-Boats left. However, I think it's a small price to pay for sinking so many capital ships.

 

[Rocoteh]

Overall, it sounds good to me. In my game as the Germans, the Italians have sent a TON of troops through Russia. I have no idea where they are going, but it'll help me when I actually declare on them. The Italians will be in position to take the brunt of the Russian counter attack However, it would be nice not to see that happen any longer.

As for my game, I have taken all of Europe and am in the process of re-positioning my troops into 3 invasion armies into Russia. One in the north (was on the border of 2 cities, but Lwow got a cultural expansion), one central and one south. I've decided to abandon the non-draft house rule and started to draft to fill in each army with some infantry. If I remember right, we are in week 47 of 1939. I should be ready to start the invasion by week 50. I lost a healthy amount of airforce battling the French, British and Americans on my road west. I'm hoping to have enough to fend off the Russian Air Force, but it'll be close.

The British have lost about 5 Battleships and a host of other ships to my U-Boats (but I did take heavy losses). The Americans lost a Carrier, 3 Battleships and a couple of Heavy Cruisers(with some other minor losses too). That fleet was bombarding the northern Spanish city (the allies were at war with Spain) when I captured it, so I moved my fleet over to sink them. If I remember right, I only have about 10 U-Boats left. However, I think it's a small price to pay for sinking so many capital ships.

allin1joe,

Thank you for the report.
I am looking forward to follow how the the campaign in Russia turns out.

My first AI-version of WW2-Global will be human Germany versus AI.
Thus it will only be playable as Germany. Should the response be positive
I will produce more AI-versions.

Rocoteh

 

[oljb007]

Rocoteh

I am also considering to remove the grassland-tile west of Istanbul
and replace it with a coastal-tile.(With a minefield)

This is what I was commenting on regarding Turkey and leaving them as a viable option for attack (I dont have a map and think I recall the terrain around istanbul) as I re-read it I take note of the "considering". However, this would remove the option for attack; that is why I quickly chimed in with my thoughts against this.

Recent posts though have been more geared towards proper play of the AI, which I agree with.

I would also like to re-iterate my idea of removing railroads through turkey in an effort to simulate the difficulty germany would have faced moving tanks through the mountains in that region.

 

[oljb007]

allin1joe,

Thank you for the report.
I am looking forward to follow how the the campaign in Russia turns out.

My first AI-version of WW2-Global will be human Germany versus AI.
Thus it will only be playable as Germany. Should the response be positive
I will produce more AI-versions.

Rocoteh

I mentioned something along these lines back in the day, however, it would be quite time intensive and you agreed. None-the-less it is the best option for making the game as balanced and realistic as possible. I think the response will be extremely positive and hopefully you will be encouraged enough to make unique scenarios for all the major players. I am already waiting inpatiently!