WW2-Global

[I_batman]

I batman,

The idea with the power of the mines is that Royal Navy not shall
be able to make unhistorical raids into the Baltic.
The mines also reduce the value of the great Soviet submarine force
in Leningrad. This is also realistic since in reality German minefields
in the Baltic prevented the Soviet submarines to do much damage until
late 1944.

Ah, thank you for the history lesson. I have learned so much world history much over the years playing Civ.

Thoughts on CIV IV and the future:

I think Firaxis made a mistake when they did not release a editor for CIV IV
like the one in CIV III. They say its simple to write code for CIV IV.
OK if its so simple why no editor? I mean then it can not cost much
to include an editor!

For example people like Sarevok, El Justo and me does not write code
and we are used to work with an editor. Now we have to learn how
write code or cooperate with someone who can.
I am an old-timer and will choose the second alternative.

Users online are x4 compared to before the release of CIV IV and that is
for sure both impressing and positive.
However its hard to say how great the interest for CIV IV will be
6 months from now when there are probably still no custom units
around and only a few mods and scenarios.

Rocoteh

Yes, I think it is just a surge with the advent of the game. I think once they get the bugs worked out, people will be playing the game in its base form for longer than 6 months, more like a year, before they start looking for scenarios within Civ IV.
That is assuming they can work the bugs out, and assuming the game design was as good as Civ II or Civ III.

By then they may release a simpler editor, or you can rely on some coders like me and I am sure dozens of others on the web.
Keep in mind, I thought I read somewhere that Firaxis expects scenarios to be built by teams now, not individuals.
Maybe this is how they expect it to work.

 

[Bob1475]

Rocoteh -

You have asked whether we will ever see a good AI? I think I just met him in CIV IV. Maybe not so much a good AI as the reconfiguration of the game takes away so much of the human advantage.

Controls have been place in trading so you can't really take advantage of the AI and shop techs like you used to. Border controls are truly interesting, no more placing troops in another civ and then violating your agreement. All units must return to your CIV or neutral territory before war.

Most interesting to Global scenarioi is the new combat. You simply cannot bombard foes into total submission (my favorite was always stacks of artillery or in Global "mobile rockets". Yes you can bombard but only City defenses or improvements. To affect units you must attack with your artillery (cannons, trebuchet, whatever). In the attack you cause collateral damage against all opposing units in the square - stacking can now be very expensive! Typical attack on a city require bombardment of city defenses down to below 20% - personally I like zero. Then you must attack with your artillery to get collateral damage - you will lose at least 50% of your artillery in this way but it really "softens up" the defenders. Accordingly artillery can be used by AI very effectively which I think will take a significant advantage away from the human player. You can always choose to attack with just armor but if you do not soften up, opposing units who have fortified will be tough to take out.

AI seems to have absorbed this and always attacks in mixed unit formation!

It is not apparent to me that CIV IV has effectively addressed the role of a navy. I need to play more to understand but it appears that trade routes do not seem to be affected by opposing naval formations.

On the other hand espionage has been changed and I think improved. Sending those invisible spies around is interesting. If you enter a city you get to see everything as many times as you want. In fact you can move all around the city screen just liked you owned the city (without changing anything - although that might be interesting!).

Best of all - you can occupy the same square as another civs units! I have not seen this in allied warfare but it will be very interesting! Imagine having Italian infantry on an Finnish transport crossing to attack Norway in the same square as a German destroyer! Global (or any other version you want, will be a great Multiplayer game!). I have never played Multiplayer but now I think I will want to because of these improvements.

Well, back to the game. Hopefully you get the game Nov 5 and see for yourself. While CIV IV is not perfect it is a great game and I suffer from the "one more move" syndrome. I only caution that it takes a little while to get comfortable with the interface.

 

[oljb007]

Rocoteh,

You suggested Poland start as french control in regards to my comments about them being week. I think the easiest solution is to just put some garrison's in there cities so that there starting positions are stronger than just one unit in 2/4 cities.

Someone else's playtest report I believe stated they took all of poland in the first turn.

 

[Rocoteh]

I batman,

"Yes, I think it is just a surge with the advent of the game. I think once they get the bugs worked out, people will be playing the game in its base form for longer than 6 months, more like a year, before they start looking for scenarios within Civ IV.
That is assuming they can work the bugs out, and assuming the game design was as good as Civ II or Civ III."
I batman


Agree. I think there will be a crisis in interest after 6 months given
no custom units, scenarios and mods have appeared.
What I have understand its even not clear if will be possible to
create custom units.

"By then they may release a simpler editor, or you can rely on some coders like me and I am sure dozens of others on the web.
Keep in mind, I thought I read somewhere that Firaxis expects scenarios to be built by teams now, not individuals.
Maybe this is how they expect it to work."
I batman

Yes teamwork will be a must.
Looking forward to work with you!

Also: I have send you WW2-Global BETA 1.8.

Rocoteh

 

[Rocoteh]

Rocoteh,

You suggested Poland start as french control in regards to my comments about them being week. I think the easiest solution is to just put some garrison's in there cities so that there starting positions are stronger than just one unit in 2/4 cities.

Someone else's playtest report I believe stated they took all of poland in the first turn.

oljb007,

Yes I will choose that solution.

Then it will take maybe 2-3 turns to occupy Poland instead of 1.

Rocoteh

 

[Rocoteh]

Bob1475,

"You have asked whether we will ever see a good AI? I think I just met him in CIV IV. Maybe not so much a good AI as the reconfiguration of the game takes away so much of the human advantage."
Bob1475

That is very good news!

"Controls have been place in trading so you can't really take advantage of the AI and shop techs like you used to. Border controls are truly interesting, no more placing troops in another civ and then violating your agreement. All units must return to your CIV or neutral territory before war."
Bob1475

Sounds very good.

"Most interesting to Global scenarioi is the new combat. You simply cannot bombard foes into total submission (my favorite was always stacks of artillery or in Global "mobile rockets". Yes you can bombard but only City defenses or improvements. To affect units you must attack with your artillery (cannons, trebuchet, whatever). In the attack you cause collateral damage against all opposing units in the square - stacking can now be very expensive! Typical attack on a city require bombardment of city defenses down to below 20% - personally I like zero. Then you must attack with your artillery to get collateral damage - you will lose at least 50% of your artillery in this way but it really "softens up" the defenders. Accordingly artillery can be used by AI very effectively which I think will take a significant advantage away from the human player. You can always choose to attack with just armor but if you do not soften up, opposing units who have fortified will be tough to take out."
Bob1475

What you mention above sounds like a real improvement.

"It is not apparent to me that CIV IV has effectively addressed the role of a navy. I need to play more to understand but it appears that trade routes do not seem to be affected by opposing naval formations."
Bob1475

I really hope they have improved the naval aspect.

"On the other hand espionage has been changed and I think improved. Sending those invisible spies around is interesting. If you enter a city you get to see everything as many times as you want. In fact you can move all around the city screen just liked you owned the city (without changing anything - although that might be interesting!)."
Bob1475

That is good. Espionage in CIV III is not a strong part of the game-system.

"Best of all - you can occupy the same square as another civs units! I have not seen this in allied warfare but it will be very interesting! Imagine having Italian infantry on an Finnish transport crossing to attack Norway in the same square as a German destroyer! Global (or any other version you want, will be a great Multiplayer game!). I have never played Multiplayer but now I think I will want to because of these improvements."

Agree. This is really good news and a heavy improvement!

"Well, back to the game. Hopefully you get the game Nov 5 and see for yourself. While CIV IV is not perfect it is a great game and I suffer from the "one more move" syndrome. I only caution that it takes a little while to get comfortable with the interface"
Bob1475

It will probably be November 7 instead. I am really looking forward
to play it.

Rocoteh

 

[IarnGreiper]

Maybe they have fixed the memeroy leaks until the. Right now the performance is horrible (2,4 GHz, 1,5 GB DDR here).

 

[candaboy]

First off – This scenario looks great. I have been reading about it since July but for one reason or another was unable to download it.

Right now I am trying to get this scenario to work on my laptop but it gives me this error message:

Missing entry in "text\pedialcons.txt": ANIMNAME_PRTO_1939DD

I search for this message on the forum but can not find it. Do I need to re-download the scenario? Or am I just doing it wrong?

Also I find your install directions a little bit confusing. Do I put the little down load in the bid download or just copy them both into the Scenarios-folder? Also, I have 2 Scenario folders.

I have more then the recommended minimum computer capacity of 512 RAM and 2 Ghz.

I would be grateful for any help you can give me.

 

[Rocoteh]

Maybe they have fixed the memeroy leaks until the. Right now the performance is horrible (2,4 GHz, 1,5 GB DDR here).

IarnGreiper,

Yes, I have 3,0 GHz and 2 GB RAM.

Really hope there will be no install problems.

Rocoteh

 

[Rocoteh]

First off – This scenario looks great. I have been reading about it since July but for one reason or another was unable to download it.

Right now I am trying to get this scenario to work on my laptop but it gives me this error message:

Missing entry in "text\pedialcons.txt": ANIMNAME_PRTO_1939DD

I search for this message on the forum but can not find it. Do I need to re-download the scenario? Or am I just doing it wrong?

Also I find your install directions a little bit confusing. Do I put the little down load in the bid download or just copy them both into the Scenarios-folder? Also, I have 2 Scenario folders.

I have more then the recommended minimum computer capacity of 512 RAM and 2 Ghz.

I would be grateful for any help you can give me.

candaboy,

Probably you have installed the downloaded files into the scenarios-folder
of CIV III instead of the scenarios-folder of Conquests.
This is a very common mistake.
Thus you only have to move the downloaded folder and the file
into Conquests/Scenarios.

Please post again should this not work.

Rocoteh

 

[oljb007]

rocoteh,

I haven't seen the "area of control" work yet, but I must admit I haven't been moving past fortresses that much.


oljb007

 

[Gallowglass]

I can't say I really agree with starting Poland under French Control; I beleive thats whats being suggested anyways. Going by history Germany was able to overrun Poland easily for several reasons, first their army was not well equipped to deal with German Armored and Mechanized units, they were not correctly deployed for a defense in depth and thus could not regroup fast enough to effectively defend their cities after the initial German advance shreded their lines along the border, and their Air Force was almost completely destroyed on the ground giving the Germans unquestioned air superiority.

So all in all after playtesting quite a bit (I love playing Germany in the WWII scenarios that come out) I think the way it has been set up now is just fine. Poland can try to put up a defense as long as they can with varying degrees of success, just like what happened during the actual invasion, but also accurate is the major resistence in Poland being crushed within 1-3 (3 being almost unheard of in my games on Sid i.e. Poland really got lucky) weeks.

Just my two cents.

- Gallowglass

 

[Rocoteh]

rocoteh,

I haven't seen the "area of control" work yet, but I must admit I haven't been moving past fortresses that much.


oljb007

oljb007,

It should work.

However I am not sure there will be an automatic attack
every time a zone of control move is made.

Rocoteh

 

[Rocoteh]

I can't say I really agree with starting Poland under French Control; I beleive thats whats being suggested anyways. Going by history Germany was able to overrun Poland easily for several reasons, first their army was not well equipped to deal with German Armored and Mechanized units, they were not correctly deployed for a defense in depth and thus could not regroup fast enough to effectively defend their cities after the initial German advance shreded their lines along the border, and their Air Force was almost completely destroyed on the ground giving the Germans unquestioned air superiority.

So all in all after playtesting quite a bit (I love playing Germany in the WWII scenarios that come out) I think the way it has been set up now is just fine. Poland can try to put up a defense as long as they can with varying degrees of success, just like what happened during the actual invasion, but also accurate is the major resistence in Poland being crushed within 1-3 (3 being almost unheard of in my games on Sid i.e. Poland really got lucky) weeks.

Just my two cents.

- Gallowglass

Gallowglass,

Agree. Poland will not be French control.

It shall never take more than 3 weeks for Germany to occupy Poland.
For that reason only some garrison units will be added.

Rocoteh

 

[Hornblower]

Germany - Beta1.8 - Emperor
Wk15 1940: Germans conquer Switzerland.
consolidation and pacification of western europe begin.
Wk29: Gibraltar taken thanks to Spanish granting ROP
Wk33: Soviet Union attacks after demanding Germans give Wines. (previous trade of wines to SU worth 55gpt until SU cancel the trade some turns earlier)Soviets went to war with 34 T34's, 40 Light tanks and 114 Mot Inf.
Germans had 22 PzIIIe's and 40 PzIIIg's. Not a great force but Germans held off attacking and watched the Soviets smash themselves against my carefully prepared strongpoints on the border.
24 Stuka's and 12 He111's took advantage of Soviets stacking their armour and driving between my strongpoints into a preplanned tank trap. suckers!
Wk35: USA declares war on Spain. Earlier I had detected a 2 Heavy cruisers escorting a transport towards the Med. I think they ran afoul of a Spanish submarine as the next turn only the transport remained.
Germans commence offensive with 22 PzIIIe, 60 PzIIIg's 30 Mot Inf and about 100 Inf Div's. Vilnius and Liepaja fall whilst I send my second prong against the southern cities.
Wk36: Riga falls.
Wk37: Lwow and Lutsk fall.
Wk38: Kishinev and Odessa fall.
Wk40: British paratroops drop on German occupied Corsica! Well only one paratroop (who looked like an infantryman) who dies attacking the garrison but it was the first time I have seen the AI do that!
Wk45: Sebastapol finally falls with the SU mounting a massive do or die attack against my artillery stack that I had heavily defended. I was hard enough breaking through the fortress there without the added pressure of T34stacks of doom attacking from the north, ship bombarding from the sea and bombers (who got smashed by my CAP in Odessa) coming from all over. It was a good battle and required a steely nerve.
The SU has really ramped up production and despite me killing about 15-20 T34's a turn they now have more than 80 of them and ever increasing. There will be no treaties here since I will never be able to beat them down if I do.
Japan continues her city raising tour of the far east. She has moved into Burma now but only one third of the original cities remain. I don't believe that the defence and constant bombing is doing it. I think the AI is deliberately raising due to the logistical problems of holding such a massive area.
I would be interested to see what someone who is playing Japan in this map has to say!

 

[Rocoteh]

Hornblower,

Thank you for the report.

"Germany - Beta1.8 - Emperor
Wk15 1940: Germans conquer Switzerland.
consolidation and pacification of western europe begin.
Wk29: Gibraltar taken thanks to Spanish granting ROP
Wk33: Soviet Union attacks after demanding Germans give Wines. (previous trade of wines to SU worth 55gpt until SU cancel the trade some turns earlier)Soviets went to war with 34 T34's, 40 Light tanks and 114 Mot Inf.
Germans had 22 PzIIIe's and 40 PzIIIg's. Not a great force but Germans held off attacking and watched the Soviets smash themselves against my carefully prepared strongpoints on the border."
Hornblower



All this is realistic! Stalin planned to attack Germany. Probably July 1941.
Its possible such a attack had ended the way you describe above.

"Wk35: USA declares war on Spain. Earlier I had detected a 2 Heavy cruisers escorting a transport towards the Med. I think they ran afoul of a Spanish submarine as the next turn only the transport remained."
Hornblower

No doubt the old "submarine bug" is a problem.
I wonder if this have been corrected in CIV IV.

"k36: Riga falls.
Wk37: Lwow and Lutsk fall.
Wk38: Kishinev and Odessa fall."
Hornblower

That is very good, just 5 weeks after the Soviet attack.

"k40: British paratroops drop on German occupied Corsica! Well only one paratroop (who looked like an infantryman) who dies attacking the garrison but it was the first time I have seen the AI do that!"
Hornblower

Strange attack!

"W45: Sebastapol finally falls with the SU mounting a massive do or die attack against my artillery stack that I had heavily defended. I was hard enough breaking through the fortress there without the added pressure of T34stacks of doom attacking from the north, ship bombarding from the sea and bombers (who got smashed by my CAP in Odessa) coming from all over. It was a good battle and required a steely nerve."
Hornblower

I understand that. Its many fortress units there!

"he SU has really ramped up production and despite me killing about 15-20 T34's a turn they now have more than 80 of them and ever increasing. There will be no treaties here since I will never be able to beat them down if I do."
Hornblower

I think you are right.

"Japan continues her city raising tour of the far east. She has moved into Burma now but only one third of the original cities remain. I don't believe that the defence and constant bombing is doing it. I think the AI is deliberately raising due to the logistical problems of holding such a massive area."
Hornblower

With the wonders added in BETA 1.9 this will stop. At least 90% of it.

Thank you and welcome back.

Rocoteh

 

[I_batman]

Hi Rocoteh:

1. Was computer shopping tonight, and it looks like I will be 2 weeks before I get my dream system, and dive into Civ IV, and hence ramp up my coding skills to where they once were, in university.

2. Just got my first StuG IIIG in my 2.0 game
Cyclopedia says it has bombard of 15, 3 times, and the unit icon indicates the same thing. But there is no bombard button associated with the unit when I click on the unit.
Anybody else see this?

3. I managed to avoid war with the Soviets in my game, and concentrated on booting the Brits out of North Africa after conquering the British Isles.
It seems to have paid off, because the Soviets just declared war also against the UK, and I witnessed a massive movement of armour off the German/Soviet border. The Soviet troops I hope are destined for Asia.

 

[Adler17]

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=132476

This thread is about modding civ IV. I didn´t have that much time to read me through but it seems to be more possible, but also more complicated to mod. However I saw the first proposials of tools to use XML and Python. So I think if you have time, it is worth to learn. I mean you have to learn a bit programming, but it shouldn´t be so tough to be a programming crack to mod Civ IV.
You can now mod civilizations (Python, XML) and maps (World builder ~ = Civ II cheat mode), but not do more like introducing new units what won´t be possible until Firaxis launches the SDK editor, but that won´t happen this year.
Civ IV has much more possibilities than Civ III. But it lacks a bit the easyness of modding. But perhaps the one can´t fit with the other. We´ll see.

Adler

 

[Rocoteh]

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=132476

This thread is about modding civ IV. I didn´t have that much time to read me through but it seems to be more possible, but also more complicated to mod. However I saw the first proposials of tools to use XML and Python. So I think if you have time, it is worth to learn. I mean you have to learn a bit programming, but it shouldn´t be so tough to be a programming crack to mod Civ IV.
You can now mod civilizations (Python, XML) and maps (World builder ~ = Civ II cheat mode), but not do more like introducing new units what won´t be possible until Firaxis launches the SDK editor, but that won´t happen this year.
Civ IV has much more possibilities than Civ III. But it lacks a bit the easyness of modding. But perhaps the one can´t fit with the other. We´ll see.

Adler

Adler,

Thank you.
However I will have less time in the future to spend on scenario-creation
than I had during the last 3 years.
Thus I will instead cooperate with individuals like I batman and Phoenix
that can write code.

Rocoteh

 

[Rocoteh]

I am going off-line now and will be away for some days
without Internet-connection.

I hope you will continue to post reports and comments on the scenario.

Rocoteh