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[Xtended] Download and Changelog

Discussion in 'Wildmana Modmod' started by esvath, Oct 7, 2016.

  1. esvath

    esvath Apprentice of Erebus

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2008
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    1,403
    Hello and thank you for playing!

    Clockwork golem (all golems, actually) have higher strength than normal units because they are:
    - not gaining any promotions
    - can not use gears
    - no "+2 strength from techs"
    - they are not alive, thus no healing spells/potions for them (only using Repair spell, which is generally weaker than Healing spells/potions)
    - high cost in lumber/stone/metal

    Check the pedia entries for each civilization to know their special strength and weakness, and also general advice on playing them.


    This is correct. Thanks, Ombatur.
     
  2. esvath

    esvath Apprentice of Erebus

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    To put Clockwork Golem in context:
    • Clockwork Golem requires Machinery (16,300 beakers) and Enchantment Mastery (900 culture + at least 300 beakers to unlock the Guild).
    • It requires 150 hammers and 500 metals, and also Artificer's Workshop (80 hammer).
    • Its strength is 32/28.
    The Malakim equivalent of a Clockwork Golem is a Vanguard:
    • Vanguard requires Focused Discipline (10,800 beakers) and Religious Law (5700 culture + at least 300 beakers to unlock the Guild).
    • He requires 100 hammers and 400 metals.
    • His strength is 13 +2 from Warrior Caste +2 from Focused Discipline = 17 str
    • But he starts with Longspear which gives +30% attack and Scalemail which gives +20% defense. So his actual Level 1 strength is 22/20.
    • He has Valiant Spirit which gives 50% chance to get Second Chance (thus avoid death).
    • Plus, he can get various promotions which further boost his strength. At level 3, he will get +30% strength = 27/25.5
    Personally, I think this is quite balanced but possible tweak is by moving Vanguard forward to Dogma (2700 culture + at least 300 beakers).
     
  3. Alexej

    Alexej Prince

    Joined:
    May 16, 2008
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    433
    @Ombatur what turn you are playing? Have you checked wb how big are your oponents cities? You have souls surplus just because there are not enough cosumption buildings accessible. I need to play few hundreds turn more to give final word on this matter. Hope I will be able to play tonight. My small cities are taking 25-40 turns to complete common buildings right now and dont forget Aristrakh are already punished by not receiving great persons.
     
  4. Zerli

    Zerli Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 26, 2008
    Messages:
    17
    Turn 394, Giant map, Marathon speed, Monarch difficulty, playing as Einion Logos of Elohim, 24 civilizations total.
    8 civilizations remain on map, all others were destroyed by barbarians - please see attached save file.
    Lanun were just destroyed by barbarians - I'm counting 60+ barbarian Wildlings near Innsmouth (conquered) AFTER Lanun's defeat.
    Similar hordes of barbarians are approaching every remaining civilization.
    Similar situation happened in about half a dozen games I played recently - some 5.4, some 5.5. In all of them I play on Giant maps, Marathon speed, with 20-30 civilizations.

    In one memorable 5.4 game, I got to about turn 350 when I was attacked by a barbarian horde that had demolished my neighbors previously. In about 40 turns, I was attacked by 100+ barbarian Savages, each with 32000+ XP and level 43, all possible promotions, practically invincible. I had a massive army, lots of captured necromancers upgraded very highly, I liberally spammed spells and faith and abused Salvation for Second Chance promotions. Barbarians attacked through a narrow pass that I could defend with a maxed up turtled city. Eventually, I still lost because there just seemed to be endless waves of 20-40 super-barbs. Most other civilizations got killed by these barbarians.

    Please note that I carefully checked and I was NOT playing with Raging Barbarians option. I do use "Double Events" and a few other options, but nothing that I can see that would spawn insane number of barbarians. Armageddeon counter was typically very low - under 10 in all cases.

    If this is intended, I think most of game features are wasted as the only survival strategy is not to play. Or more practically, settle a small offshore island and wait until all your opponents are destroyed by barbarian hordes and then win by default. No skill or attention is needed...
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Feb 23, 2017
  5. Alexej

    Alexej Prince

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    Hmm barbarians are forcing you tu build army first and on medium maps it takes maybe 100 or more turns until you can beat them easily. AIs can manage them too by that time but thats medium map. Barbarian setting is not fit for giant maps then because I never experienced this on standart maps, sounds scary.

    You should not use necromancers in Elohim army maybe that brought this doom on you :D
     
  6. esvath

    esvath Apprentice of Erebus

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    @Zerli: I'll check the save game.

    Some questions:
    - did you play any other mods?
    - if yes, have you use New Game -> Play Now option?
     
  7. Melanie88

    Melanie88 Chieftain

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    There is no question that barbarians are very dangerous since version 5. I usually play with medium-sized maps, and the first hundred turns are definitely a fight for survival. It's the goblin archers that are most dangerous, as they are overpowered in the early game.

    I haven't commented on this previously because I actually like the change. But yes, it can cause difficulties with larger maps, especially if a neighbouring civ is friendly with barbarians, and the raiders pass through in great numbers to attack you. My favourite strategy to deal with them is to choose Order religion and build crusaders for defence. After fighting off a few invasions, they can gain promotions to convert defeated foes, and one gets free defenders for easy expansion. :queen:

    I don't know how to protect AI civs from the hordes, though. Maybe reduce the spawn rate for large maps only?
     
  8. Ombatur

    Ombatur Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Germany
    Ok, here are some stats:

    I'm playing on normal game speed, Emperor difficulty. It is turn 204.
    My cities are of size 15(Capital), 8, 7, 5, 4, 1(newly founded)
    Enemy cities are of size:
    8, 7, 4, 2
    7, 6, 6, 6, 3
    11, 8, 8, 8, 6, 5, 4, 1
    7, 7, 7, 6 ,5

    So the size of my cities is comparable to the size of AI cities. My capital is even the largest city. I still have a surplus of 700 souls.
    My city with size 4 has a production of 24 hammers. I can build buildings relatively fast, only the first building in a city, which for me is usually the defiler building, takes some time, because I feel Aristarkh cites take longer to grow over one population than other cities.

    I usually play on medium or small sized maps and emperor or monarch difficulty and it's fine there. The barbarians are a challenge, but it's a nice challenge. Sometimes an AI city is captured by barbarians, but they don't destroy a whole AI civilization.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2017
  9. Alexej

    Alexej Prince

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    Ah they are slow on start then, thats good to know. I am building construction yard first and only then defiler and I am playing marathon so it feels too slow after founding new city, ok.
     
  10. Sifaus

    Sifaus Adramelech

    Joined:
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    259
    It's been a long time since i've played Fall from Heaven. Just came here to see if Master of Mana is still updated and I'm really happy to see that you are continuing this great mod (or modmod (or modmodmod))).
     
  11. Alexej

    Alexej Prince

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    Damn them Bannor they totally steamrolled Khazad in my game Aristrakh game, now they have 10 cities in turn 337 : 2x12 2x10 2x6 4x4. Need to be ready when they come! :D
     
  12. Zerli

    Zerli Chieftain

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    I also occasionally play Caveman to Cosmos.

    I haven't used the New Game -> Play Now options - do you think that would make a difference?
     
  13. esvath

    esvath Apprentice of Erebus

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    If using more than one mod, it is advisable to use New Game > Play Now when switching between mods to clear options which may affect the later mod.

    I am not sure if this is the case with your games. It's just I have never seen Barbarian units with 1000 xp. Barbarian threat lies in their quantity, not quality or both.
     
  14. Alexej

    Alexej Prince

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    I am also playing caveman 2 cosmos, history rewritten, realism invictus and never used play now.

    Update Aristrakh : Turn 400 - my soul vault is 224 so no excessive surplus though I am not at war, only hunting barbs and animals not too far from my territory since Bannor already asked for 770gold which I refused

    ME - Capital : 14 Other cities : 6 5 2 (I still think that +4 soul consumption would not hurt and not make Aris too strong) 488 score

    Svart : 13 / 11 10 8 4 4 1 Score 856
    Hippus : 11/ 10 5 3 2 1 Score 569
    Bannor : 14 / 13 13 11 10 10 8 7 5 5 Score 1536

    Took imperialistic trait to help build buildings in other cities. Both Bannor and Svart are on sorcery they hope to outcast me. I am behind in research but working on writing and planting new city soon. If I can manage to survive Bannor crusade will provide more info :)

    Upd : Turn 450 still no one attacked me :O can it be because of hordes of Skeletons (no support cost) from Necromantic Rite? My soul vault is on 85 I will need to build catalyst soon or attack someone. It is good that player can choose in my opinion.

    Upd2 : Turn 465 Rivanna the Wraithlady asked help against Bannor so I sided with her, though it will be defensive war for quite some time. I am not eager to face those demon hunters and clerics in field with my undeads this soon :D

    Upd3 : Turn 560
    Capital 18 Other cities : 8 7 5 2 1
    Svart : 14 / 11 10 6 6 - being conquered by Bannor
    Hippus : 22 / 19 10 9 8 8
    Bannor : 23 / 22 20 17 16 ...

    I am now at war with Bannor and Hippus + have 2 void catalyst and have to completely disagree that soul generation is too high because I am moving between 0-75 souls in vault.
    Capital with its soul consumption 3 palace + 1 tainted well + 1 undead city +1 unholy glyphs + 4 catacombs + 5 cabal shrine +2 circle of blood = 17 souls per turn
    Other cities 1 tainted well + 1 undead city +1 unholy glyphs = 3. In turns when there is no big fight all souls from vault devours capital and other cities stop growing so I do still VOTE for unlocking catacombs to other cities

    Upd4 : Turn 800
    Now that I have taken charismatic trait and backed SOD with Nikephoros I can finally go and raze any city I`d wish, now I have surplus of souls around 600 but until now it was struggling for every soul :D

    @esvath can it be done so Aristrakh could rebuild defiler when barbarian necromancer with skeletons builds cemetery there (defiler takes resource away)? Should have protected it but have to get one more spell tech to train Tomb Lords. Or give some nice yields from cemetery for Aristrakh?
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2017
  15. Thonnas

    Thonnas Warlord

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    First of all, thank you so much for your version of this modmod. I have really enjoyed it.

    Secondly, can you point me to whatever, if any, changes you have made regarding any animations in the past few months. I have had to disable animations because I kept getting a graphics driver crash (amd) only while playing this mod. Needles to say, this does not improve the experience. Any suggestions on which units to start testing first would be appreciated.

    Finally, could you look into and consider adding a component for technology research increases based on technologies discovered by neighboring civs and trade partners, like what exists in Realism Invictus. I find the AI's requests and demands for technologies quite tiresome, and so prefer to disable tech trading, and as such, the technology spread mechanism would be a nice addition.

    Thanks again.
     
  16. esvath

    esvath Apprentice of Erebus

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    Thanks, hopefully you enjoy the modmodmod!


    I see. Have you ever seen barbarian units with 1000+ xp?


    Maybe early soul generation (against barbarian) is too high? I am thinking about blocking Undead from generation souls so Aristrakh can't farm skeleton barrows. Any thought?

    Catacomb will be buildable in all cities in 5.6


    Yes, this is possible. I prefer graveyards built by Necromancers to give something, maybe mana and culture?


    Thanks for the kind words.
    I do not change unit animations, though. Which version runs well in your machine?

    Unfortunately adding that kind of mechanism requires DLL modding, which I don't know how to do.
     
  17. Alexej

    Alexej Prince

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    No never seen such strong barbarian, to be honest never observed they are growing in strenght. I do allways refuse their proposals or even threaten or taunt them, but I do play mid-size maps only.


    Yes indeed if it is possible block getting souls from barb skeletons and machines too, Bannor gave me enough souls to call Nikephoros by fielding unprotected trebuchets xD But someone still needs to fire those machines so I`ll let you decide.

    This will make them more in line with other civs, thanks. Though I`ll need to change tactics and build more catalysts when playing them again


    Sounds good to me.
     
  18. dommain

    dommain Warlord

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    Has any one else have issues with the screen choosing a religion poping up after discovering the tech for it? I can force click on the tech on the science page for the religion I want but it said I cannot convert.
     
  19. esvath

    esvath Apprentice of Erebus

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    What is the issue exactly?
    The pop up for choosing religion should pop up the turn after you completed Ancient Chants.
     
  20. dommain

    dommain Warlord

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    It just doesn't for me, does it for you?
     

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