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xUPT

Discussion in 'Rise from Erebus Modmod' started by Valkrionn, May 31, 2010.

?

Should we merge the (optional!) xUPT mechanic?

  1. Yes!

    73.9%
  2. No!

    11.8%
  3. I don't care!

    4.3%
  4. PIE!!!

    9.9%
  1. Merddyn

    Merddyn Scholar of the Arcane

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    Well, when I said Armies, I was referring to that in the game, they call the really-complicated-unit an "Army". An army, even a small one, is a much more complex beast, involving infantry, most likely archers, cavalry, messengers, relays, artillery, wagon trains, cooks, et cetera, et cetera. The support aspect of which is mostly merged into the units of Civilization anyway.

    And yes, I'm aware you can set it to have a higher UPT limit. But they could take it and hard-code it so it's a smaller number anyway. Personally, I'd like my idea available regardless of any UPT limits mainly because I want to be able to have units that AREN'T just limited to a single aspect, such as archers or swordsmen. I'd always want to give my Mages or archers some swordsmen as bodyguards, for example, or have swordsmen with dedicated archer/artillery support.

    Personally, one of my personal dreams is a turn based (or even more complicated, real time) strategy game that allows you to create units of troops that you can customize the composition, formation, outfitting of. For example, have a unit in, say, lets have a box formation...

    SSSSSSSSS
    SMPPPPPMS
    SPAAAAAPS
    SPAAAAAPS
    SPAAAAAPS
    SMPPPPPMS
    SSSSSSSSS

    Where S's are Swordsmen, P are Pikemen, A are Archers, and M are Mages. Basically have the mages constantly keeping up a barrier shield around the unit, while the swordsmen hold off any invaders via sword and shield, pikemen strike from the rank behind the swordsmen at those directly in front of the swordsmen, and archers constantly bombard the enemy ranks. At the VERY least I want an RTS that makes it so you can lock your unit's position relative to other units in its group, so you can make your own ad hoc de facto formations. So you could have a T shape of troops with archers at the intersection and infantry on the outsides constantly to protect them from attack, and never have to worry about the infantry wandering off on their own. You could even have it so that the troops constantly advance while the archers are firing arrows until the unit is in melee range, and never have to issue more than one order.

    But that's a bit off topic anyway... Regardless, my idea was less a literal army as much as a more diverse, and thus, powerful unit. I think you will be hard pressed to find any instance where a combined-arms approach to warfare was inferior to using a single type of troop in a battle. Furthermore, it gives cities with high production something to do, and it allows for people to make more powerful single units instead of the dependency on stacks of units for all your jobs... That and I always hated that I couldn't send multiple units at a time to attack a target when it would obviously be tactically more sound to do it. Why have only one unit of archers attack a unit at a time taking turns instead of having all 5 units attack at the same time?

    Now obviously I ALSO support that you would have to pay increased unit support costs for them.
     
  2. Sonereal

    Sonereal ♫We got the guillotine♫ Supporter

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    More of a combat problem inherited in the game than anything else but the closest I've gotten to a combined arms approach has been enabling "Archer Bombard" with "Attack Support" which, when say a stack with 3 melee and 1 archery unit attacks an adjacent unit, allows the archer unit to fire upon the enemy while a melee unit does the actual attacking (works with siege weapons too).
     
  3. Valkrionn

    Valkrionn The Hamster King

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    @Merddyn - That is essentially what xUPT and our new unitlines will do, it's just not nearly as complicated as what you suggest.

    We will have a total of 13 unitcombats (not including workers). I am recommending a limit between 5 and 8 (3 combats are naval, so honestly, 5 or 6 are best), as this requires you to actually consider stack composition. Each combat has a role... Do you want anti-cavalry (VERY IMPORTANT in your mage stacks!), or archers, for example? An extra swordsman, or that priest to heal you? You have limited choices you can make.
     
  4. Merddyn

    Merddyn Scholar of the Arcane

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    I suppose that works too, though I've still always been overly fond of combining multiple units into a single unit, even BEFORE Civ3 came out and essentially did that. Of course, that idea really works best in terms of having 1 (or 2) UPT setup... Two for handling being able to combine the units, of course. Though, honestly the largest stack of units I've really ever made in a game of Civilization was 13, not including in cities... Well, with the exception of once or twice just warrior-spamming to break a city. Anyway... And that was when I REALLY wanted something dead and I threw 5 mages, 4 knights, a crossbowman defender, Sphener, and a couple of Paladins at someone. XD

    Still, your method doesn't really incorporate the ability to use all those types of units at once in a single combat. And of course, my idea is supposed to be more of the additional units provide support for the main composition of the unit, which is what they're added on to. Adding two str 5 swordsmen together should NOT get a single str 10 unit... Strength may actually be a linear progression but I think of it as more of an exponential one. ESPECIALLY when promotions are factored in, which is why I'd favor a +% strength boost as opposed to raw strength. It'd add one more strategic option to the game... Would it be better to have the two STR 5 swordsmen, each with their own experience and health track, or a (random numbers, yay) single Str 5 Swordsmen with +40% strength?

    Honestly, if I knew how to mod, I'd probably try to do it myself and test it. Same with having the ability to ship food from one city to another. Oooh! Are there any plans to do that kind of thing? That's something that still to this day bugs me about Civilization... As a friend of mine put it, being able to move food from one place to another is the basis of modern civilization... If nothing else, Las Vegas would not exist if we couldn't. =P

    ... Although I'm more inclined to making a fantasy variant of Colonization than Civilization, honestly. I just see SO MUCH untapped potential in there...
     
  5. PPQ_Purple

    PPQ_Purple Techpriest Engineer

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    3,696
    Two things:
    1. I love SODs so please do not make this mandatory.
    2. Shipping food between two cities only really works after you discover refrigiration...
     
  6. Torugu

    Torugu Prince

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    You're obviously right, after all:

    1. There's never been an army which was defeated because their enemies succeeded in cutting their supply routes.
    2. The Roman emperors kept spending horrendous amounts of money because the advanced refrigeration systems installed on their galleys allowed them to import grain from Egypt.
    3. Grain obviously needs to be frozen in order to stay edible for more then a few days.
    :rolleyes:


    Sorry, I wasn't intending to sound so aggressive, that's just how it turned out.
     
  7. tesb

    tesb Emperor

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    why?
    you have salt/vinegar/magic to preserve food and some food does not need preservation at all. rome used to import huge amounts of corn from its spanish and egyptian provinces.

    edit:
    i got ninjad apparently :( on the other hand i put it more nicely :)
     
  8. Jarwy

    Jarwy Warlord

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    And more salt into the wounds, how pun-ny. I guess someone never build any smokehouses for the cities. ;)

    And oh, I voted pie, because while I don't mind dealing with super stacks with super many fireballs (or dominated sons of fire, fire elemental spawn), I wouldn't mind the smaller stacks for a change.
     
  9. Sonereal

    Sonereal ♫We got the guillotine♫ Supporter

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    It will be optional. If it's like the AND version, you may even be able to toggle it in-game. :D

    It seems like the opposition's biggest fear is that the feature would become mandatory.

    Grain. Salt. ;)
     
  10. Valkrionn

    Valkrionn The Hamster King

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    It will be optional. Everything discussed throughout the entire thread should make that painfully clear. ;)

    Also... Shipping FRESH food any kind of distance requires refrigeration. However, there are numerous ways to preserve food, that have been used for millennia.

    It will be toggleable, even while in game. my plan is to make a display like the AC counter, showing the current UPT. When clicked, it will launch a popup that allows you to set the UPT. If you don't want to use the system, ignore it. If you do, click it.
     
  11. mickyd47

    mickyd47 Resident Lurker

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    You forget that this is a world full magic. I'm sure there is a spell to preserve food perfectly.
     
  12. Beardy Dan

    Beardy Dan Warlord

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    Illians or Frozen :snowlaugh:
     
  13. Torugu

    Torugu Prince

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    They have armies of corpses walking around without rotting, but they can't stop their grain from getting a bit moldy. :lol:
     
  14. tesb

    tesb Emperor

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    i wonder how many more responses that one line triggers? :D
     
  15. Cyrusfan

    Cyrusfan King

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    Who says the armies of corpses aren't rotting? I figured they just weren't falling apart.
     
  16. PPQ_Purple

    PPQ_Purple Techpriest Engineer

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    One word: Superglue
     
  17. Torugu

    Torugu Prince

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    They have to stop rotting at some point of time or they would turn into skeletons.
     
  18. Jhoniten

    Jhoniten Warlord

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    There is one easy to explain method of transporting food long distance without special preservation techniques. Don't kill it first.
     
  19. Sonereal

    Sonereal ♫We got the guillotine♫ Supporter

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    In this mod, there's a good chance that they'll kill you and everyone in your city if you don't kill them first. :lol:
     
  20. arcticnightwolf

    arcticnightwolf Emperor

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    what about nexus portals ... dimensional spell sphere ... ?
     

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