YAY Nova Scotia bans cat declawing.

[Commodore]

I think that there just isn't constituency enough to convince lawmakers to make the change. Declawing happens because, lets face it, cats are destructive. And people really think, 'OK, temp pain, long term solution to a problem'. Except the pain ain't temp. So it's really cruelty to the animal for the remainder of it's life.

I'm starting to think pet ownership in general is something we should be moving away from as a society. It seems to impact both humans and the animals we own in negative ways. I even remember reading something years ago about how pet ownership actually causes more damage to the environment than gas-guzzling SUVs when you factor in the entire industry that has risen up around pet ownership.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

My wife handles the trimming for both are cats and she's never had to wrestle with either of them.


(because I'm the one holding them while she does it.)

I can wrestle a cat when it comes to claw-trimming.

Trying to get them medicated is a whole other thing. Gussy was a large, strong cat, and his view of having his ears cleaned and taking his pills (he had an ear infection that could have killed him; I had to go to a different vet because the regular one kept insisting "nothing is wrong" - yet the ear was swollen, hot, and the cat was in so much pain he was crying) was "NO DAMN WAY!".

So the ritual was that I would get into bed, the cat would curl up on top of me, and my dad would come in with the medicine. At this point the cat would realize something was up, but at this point I'd have him by the scruff of his neck and it took me to hold the cat down and my dad to actually apply the antibiotics and force him to swallow the pill.

Why do you even need to trim your cat's claws anyway? Do they never go outside?

I let my cats out when I still lived in a house. We had a large, semi-wild back yard with lots of fruit trees and perches, and the yard was fenced. It was usually pretty safe.

After I moved to my first apartment, it was made clear that the cats were not allowed in the halls or anywhere else on the premises other than in my suite. Maddy got out one night, and led me a chase up and down the stairs on 3 different floors, and thought it was loads of fun. I finally cornered her in the basement laundry room.

Before I moved to my current suite in this building, I had to share a balcony with the next-door neighbor. They had a kitten who turned up on my side of the balcony one afternoon (crawled under the partition) and she and Maddy were having a rather emphatic disagreement over turf through the balcony door.

I figured I'd better go over and let them know where their cat was, and it turned out that nobody was home. That being a really hot day, on the hot side of the building (faces west), I was worried because I had no idea if the kitten had food or water on her side of the balcony.

I decided to let her in (because there was also no shade outside at that time) and left a note on the neighbor's door to come and get her when they got home.

Half an hour later they did show up, thanked me for looking after her, and this turned out to be a semi-regular occurrence. Two adults, and three screaming children (plus one of the adults was usually yelling) is a stressful environment for a kitten. There were times when she'd come over and ask to be let in (something I did not do if I knew they were home), and finally I just started leaving a dish of water out there in case she got locked out.

Things escalated over the next few months until it just floored me to find the kitten on my balcony at 3 am in sub-zero temperatures. The parents kept telling me that the kids were letting the cat out, but I figured that just couldn't be true at that hour of the night.

So I decided to talk to the manager, who suggested reporting them to the SPCA. Apparently it's not a lease violation to leave a pet outside in weather that's too hot or two cold.

Anyway, not long after that they picked up and moved. I don't miss the noise, but I do sometimes think about the kitten and hope she's okay.

Damn, I really had no idea. I mean, I knew that declawing cats was bad, and I knew what it's equivalent to, but hearing that it's still causing you pain, and seeing examples..

Why can't we have this law in every province? Do people who own cats and do this sort of thing really have so much influence that this is still legal in so many places?

Some vets are just after the $$$$ and are willing to do anything legal, no matter if it's unethical.

If people opposed to declawing were to make the vets understand that if they support declawing they'll lose their customers to vets who oppose declawing, that might make a difference to some of them. Sometimes the only thing they understand is people voting with their wallets.

It's not like the animal has any choice or even really any understanding on why they need to be in this much pain.

Sadly a lot of [censored] landlords that claim their apartments are pet-friendly require cats to be declawed. It can be quite a barrier sometimes.

Very true. There's one place I know of here that only allows declawed cats.

The bigger issue, though, for most landlords is if the cats are fixed. When I moved in to my first apartment the landlady demanded photos of the cats plus proof of spaying. So I had to take Maddy in pronto and get her done, plus ask the vet to look through the records to find proof of Chloe having been spayed several years before.

It would have been easier with a male cat. The evidence is clearly visible - that's what I said to some officious clerk at City Hall one time when she wouldn't issue a license for the dog we had without proof that he was neutered - even though it was just a renewal of that tier of license that he'd had for years. Since we weren't the original owners, I had no idea where his original vet records were by that time. So I told the clerk, "I can always bring him in, hoist him up on the counter, and you can see for yourself." So she quit arguing and issued the license (the fee for neutered dogs was less than for non-neutered dogs).

Why cant you just use a nail file and just file the sharp end of it down by a few mm ?

I don't think a cat would sit still long enough for that. It's much faster just to do it with a nail clipper - I don't use any fancy thing from a pet store - Maddy's claws are easy enough to do with the same kind of clipper I use on my own nails. If the cat cooperates, it takes about a minute or so to get it done - maybe two if the cat's a bit squirmy.

Maddy gets lots of hugs, cuddles, and a treat afterward, to offset any upset.

And something else to keep in mind: Cats get their claws hooked in things sometimes, like curtains, clothing, the carpet... and it does hurt them a bit to try to pull free.

I'm starting to think pet ownership in general is something we should be moving away from as a society. It seems to impact both humans and the animals we own in negative ways. I even remember reading something years ago about how pet ownership actually causes more damage to the environment than gas-guzzling SUVs when you factor in the entire industry that has risen up around pet ownership.

What "entire industry"?

 

[Commodore]

What "entire industry"?

Are you not aware of all the goods that are manufactured for pet owners? Food, toys, beds, cages, silly costumes, etc. There is even an entire chain of retail stores dedicated to selling all these goods to pet owners.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Are you not aware of all the goods that are manufactured for pet owners? Food, toys, dishes, beds, cages, silly costumes, etc. There is even an entire chain of retail stores dedicated to selling all these goods to pet owners.

Yes, I'm aware of that. I buy food, toys, and beds for my cats, as well as litter boxes, litter, scoops, liners, cleaning supplies, and carriers. Maddy has a cat tree and wears a collar. I do not dress her in costumes. There are areas of the apartment that are considered her area and I try not to bother her when she wants some privacy.

I was just curious as to what you considered "an entire industry" and how it could be worse on the environment than "gas-guzzling SUVs".

Which, btw, I don't own.

 

[aimeeandbeatles]

Petting cats lowers blood pressure, though.

 

[Cutlass]

Why cant you just use a nail file and just file the sharp end of it down by a few mm ?

Is it odd that both you lost fingers from your left hands ?[/QUOTE]


Some cats, you just cannot trim their claws. They won't stand for it. And when a cat is absolutely determined to not be still, you won't make him still short of injuring him.

Is it odd that both you lost fingers from your left hands ?

Not really. Fingers are both fragile, and frequently in harm's way. I'm sure there are many people out there with similar injuries.

 

[Yeekim]

And while the declawing itself is painful enough, the real tragedy is that the pain never really goes away. As I say, it's been 35 years. I still feel it constantly.

Ouch. Then either I'm pretty lucky or you're very unlucky. Mine was somewhat tender for a year or two, but now doesn't feel any different.
Then again, I didn't lose the entire joint, just a piece of flesh and the nail, which eventually grew back in a fashion, so not a proper declawing.
Although doctors had to shorten the bone a bit before they could stitch it together.
Getting those stitches out was by far most unpleasant part of the whole experience.

 

[aimeeandbeatles]

Don't discount ignorance, though. A lot of people don't actually understand the implications of what declawing actually does to a cat. (Those who do understand and insist upon it anyways...well, the less said, the better.)

 

[SS-18 ICBM]

I was just curious as to what you considered "an entire industry"

A cursory Google search for "pet industry" reveals that tens of billions of dollars are spent in said sector. That's on the same order of magnitude as organic foods.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Yeah. I had to find out what this is exactly.
Then i went "ewww".

Then i realised that the Evul Technocrat EU has already banned this and that most countries in protestant Europe deem this a straight-up crime as per one animal cruelty law or another.


I can only talk based on third-hand sources, but i am under the impression that people in the US and Canadia do this to cats largely due to concerns for furniture.
Which obviously makes it morally worse.

Look, you obviously know the real name of the country directly north of the United States. It's been explained to you often enough.

Why is it so damned hard for you to be courteous and use it?

 

[Manfred Belheim]

Letting cats outside is really ecologically damaging

Oh god... okay... sure it is.

 

[Arwon]

Oh god... okay... sure it is.

Wait are you disputing this? After land clearing, invasive species are the biggest menace to native wildlife in Australia and domestic cats are a part of that (along with the feral version). Cats kill a lot of small mammals, birds and reptiles. There's parts of my city where outdoor cats are banned because of the proximity to bushland.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

Wait are you disputing this? After land clearing, invasive species are the biggest menace to native wildlife in Australia and domestic cats are a part of that (along with the feral version).

I mean yeah it's probably true, more just despairing that that was the response. I mean allowing the majority of human babies to live is much more ecologically damaging, but I would still find that a bizarre response to someone asking "hold on, you don't feed your baby?"

Also, Australia's Australia.

 

[aimeeandbeatles]

There's a species of bird that was hunted to extinction by a single cat, if I'm not mistaken.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

It must have been an extremely small number of birds if just one cat killed all of them. Sounds like the species would have gone extinct anyway.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Really? You're still upset about the letter?
You've noticed that others are doing it too, have you?

I'm not happy about them doing it, either. It's deliberately rude and disrespectful, and this is not only my view. This has come up in a conversation on another forum, and other Canadians have said they're not happy about it. So it's not just me.

But... you want to use an aggressive tone and - implicitly - make demands about it?
You, as a representative of the most courteous ( ) most polite ( ) and, of course, most modest ( ) people?
A people that is - supposedly ( ) - cruelly underexposed on the interwebs, so i've heard, but that's neither here nor there.

Being courteous, polite, and modest doesn't mean we're doormats.

Erm, you do realise that i am talking to you in your language and that said language, that i have learned for, among other things, the purpose of talking to you, uses a completely different name for my country and my people that sounds crude and boorish to me?
You do realise that?

Do not pretend that "Canadia" is German for "Canada."

I rarely refer to your country by name (until recently I didn't even know what country you're from). I certainly don't go out of my way to use a derogatory term for it.

But here you are, bent out of shape about (admittedly childish) humor. About a single letter.
That's rather German of you. If i may say so myself.

Once could be a mistake. Twice is worth an As many times as you and others do it constitutes something not repeatable in public.

Yes, it's childish, and I would appreciate if you would just take that part of your vocabulary to a non-childish level.

 

[aimeeandbeatles]

You, as a representative of the most courteous ( ) most polite ( ) and, of course, most modest ( ) people?

If you actually lived here you know that's nowhere near the truth, as much as we joke about it.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Maybe some different attunement to irony was at play here.
My point was that Canadians are, generally speaking, not that terribly polite, not that terribly courteous, rather passive-aggressive but generally very forthcoming regarding their stern opinion that they are the very most politest, most courteous (and most modest ) to have ever set foot on this earth.

Did you not read Aimee's post?

I didn't.

German for "Canada" is "Kanada".
I don't intend to speculate on whether that is less triggering.

At least it's a real word, albeit in a different language.

"Canadia" is not any sort of real name for Canada.

The point is: You have chosen a name. It's not ours.
So i should be allowed to choose too.
And Canadia sounds fun and cheerful enough. It doesn't have any harmful associations or connotations or subtexts. So where's then the harm?

I didn't choose what to call your country. If you object, hop in a time machine and go rant at whoever is responsible.

"Canadia" is not fun and cheerful. It shows deliberate refusal to call the country by its proper name, and you damn well know it's annoying.

Quite right, and you have demonstrated all the need to continue.

So you're going to continue this activity that I can't name in public?

 

[aimeeandbeatles]

Can you please stop it? I don't see what the hell this discussion has to do with the subject at hand.

 

[Lemon Merchant]

Moderator Action: Ok, enough fun and diversion, let's get back to the topic at hand, please. If you need a reminder, it is cat declawing.