yet another mushroom thread ...

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r16

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with due deference to the importance of the day . What ı was directed to is a English translation of a certain famous rant ı have always loved . Omitted a few to shorten it

The huge successes of the panzers in the early parts of WW2 has inspired expenditure of far too much ink and paper ; but the victories are apt to be explained by the quote :

"The real strenght of armour in fact lay not in battle but pre-emption of battle ."

An enormous amount of experience from the Great War was still in place ; all the staff officers breathed the same air . There has been much comment on the military ability of the French , the inventors of the Maginot mentality , on how they were so primitive in theory , so ponderous in action . The French calculated it would take Germans 9 days to reach Meuse ( from the unpassable Ardennes ) . So what , so did the ever inventing fast acting German Generalstab . Defense through armour plate + mobility allied to firepower never gave the French a chance to stop or delay the German attack which was much superior in numbers at each point of contact , it was assured whatever resistance the Allies could offer would be brushed aside . 9 days took the Germans to the sea , very nearly ; it was 2 to the river . This was tank speed . Anyone attempting laugh at the French cavalry trying to stem the Panzers should remember that the same Panzer divisions were much harried and impressed by the Russian cavalry in their drive in the Caucaus . There wasn't much in the panzers , it was their divisions that were unmatched in 1940 .

1930s had seen much debate on the uses of armour . Especially the British had seen tanks as a career move , extravagant pro and anti claims had been made for deep battle and the need for getting specially prepared for the eventuality : one is always reminded how the exasperated British High Command finally stopped upstarts and their bid to take over by copying Gandhi himself , a major exercise was won by the infantry laying down in the path of oncoming armour , guided by the wives of the defending officers .

As party line is always important and Churchill had to stress the importance the 1000 German heavies that tore the Allies apart ( despite the fact that Germans had none , Tigers on the drawing boards and Panthers , well not even dreamed of ) it was a relief to hear about the superlative performance of O'Connor in the desert , it proved there was nothing wrong in the make up . In the face of puny anti tank defences a Matilda was worth an infantry battalion and now the undisputed British mastery of arms could be put on the table . Rommel , Wadi Halfaya and his grand total of 12 pieces of 88s , that was somewhat into the future . Especially the 2km frontal penetration shots .

Then came the Balkan idea . Churchill is supposed to have suffered greatly from the Dardanelles fiasco , never minding that he was still in the Cabinet when WW1 ended . So we are told he attached great importance to the Balkans and stopped O'Connor's forces just short of total victory . Not exactly so .


Much has been said on the importance of Romanian oil to the German War effort . Greek neutrality in WW2 was an effective shield against those scary bombers that burn Ploesti down to cinders . Bombers were highly regarded in those days . RAF planned for one Blenheim squadron to destroy the oil facilities in Southern Russia to stop oil deliveries to the de facto Communist ally , the Nazi Germany . As such Germans had no troubles with the Greeks , until the reckless Italian attack and the subsequent miserable failure took away the shield . Axis honour had to be restored , as prestige carries far too much crecedence until the day of the gun comes and the history shows Germans had planned a limited operation to capture Northeastern Greece to add some buffer zone to the defence of Ploesti , the conquered territory to be given to Bulgaria to ensure their full cooperation in the Axis . Bulgarians fighting the second round of a battle that the Greeks had won 30 odd years ago taking the just occupied shores to the Aegean . A turncoat movement in Sofia would bring those Blenheims to next door . Greek goverment calculated all that and begged the Great Britain not to help . It was the Germans that counted , rest of the Axis , they could wait a couple years to defeat . The suffering of those Greeks in the to be occupied Greek territory would be alleviated by Axis compensation after the Allies had won the war .

This always falls on deaf ears but Metaxas , the Greek dictator and the adamant refuser of British aid , conveniently died at the peak of British pressure to assist the just cause of Athens . Metaxas' rise was much due to the fact that he had always opposed the invasion of Anatolia in 1919 - 22 . As he wasn't tainted in any way by that debacle , Greek politicians had to entrust the military to him . Off topic but true .

It is indeed correct that the Yugoslav goverment of the day concluded a deal with Germans for "secret" use of the Belgrade - Nis railroad . What this means to the average armchair strategist is that the limited numbers of German troops operating from Southern Yugoslavia would be at the end of their tethers contributing somewhat to the fighting every inch of the way type Greek retreat from Albania and Northern sections of their country . Millions of Serbians would watch and resent every moment of it forcing Germans to be careful to avoid a new war that would suck in far too many troops , distracting them from the ultimate job of invading Russia .

The Allied strategists didn't see it that way . The scary move in 1941 was a nice train ride across the Russia to arrive in Iran , Middle East , yes , you guessed it right , the oilfields . Now any conspiracy theory worth its name must accept Nazism was nurtured to fight Bolsheviks and their various offspring . Liddell Hart , you have and will come across his name in textbooks , the strategist , journalist and historian mentions it explicitly , if only because he was instrumental shaping the British Army of WW2 by advising the pre war defence minister and could well be accused of gross negligience . The West was counting on Hitler to finish Stalin ; it was just an accident that he got involved with the West . Never claim the Soviets were angels , ever , but remember they were never left alone . Sorry for the world , but the capitalists always think too much of their profits and they stole from the material in their crusade against the Godless Communists . Anyhow , the West was pretty upset in the summer and autumn of 1940 . Germans had won massively in France and appeared to be peaceful with the Russians . American public opinion was divided , simplistic in nature many believed in the promise of the Nazis to destroy the Bolshies and bring order to the world . If everything failed doughboys would cross the ocean once more to get it done . Those who didn't actually despise the British wanted it done before British failed . In the higher ups of America nobody doubted Washington would fight , only the aims were debated .

The result was British espionage and their American proteges did everything possible to convince the Russians that Adolf Hitler was against them , he would attack . Their efforts actually did much to blunt Russians' own intelligence efforts . It made sense for Russians to buy time before fighting the famously professional German armies , anyone who talked against the notion was branded prowestern . One thing to remember here is that the military experience of the British Empire over the centuries have always involved small expeditionary forces fighting either savages far away from their England or large Continental powers ; in either case the British strategist has developed a keen sense of buying people to fight against the enemy , limiting damage to their comparatively limited in theater forces . Russians had no doubt that London would love a fight to death between Soviet Union and the Germany , which kind of pushed them into semi friendship with Nazis . The result was that it seemed unlikely that a fight would start soon , sending the British to their libraries to find an answer and they soon had one . In Greece , Churchill and his entourage saw the Portugal of Wellington . They just needed a Spain .


Because the reputation of British capability to cooperate had reached a record high in Mers El Kebir which any pro-Brit will sell as a necessary action , the task fell to the Americans . The future head of the organization that became CIA , Donovan arrived in Belgrade and simply declared that if they didn't fight Nazis now , the Yugoslavs would be punished later . Everybody knew it was the millions of American soldiers that decided the Great War , the threat was ominious enough . Funnily , nobody tried to punish Franco , the guy who sent a volunteer division to Russia . Who could blame the Yugoslavs for failing to guess that Stalin would end the war stronger and there would be a cold war ? It even looked auspicious when the Brits landed in Greece with massive forces .

The reasoning was solid . Once the Serbs staged a coup and took over Germans would have to react , since there had been a revolution in the way wars were fought , the attack would have to be spearheaded by the panzers , since the country was full of mountains the rate of advance would be slow , Serbians had some spectacular defensive successes in WWI that had been etched to their bones ; every yard the Germans occupied would be covered by the blood of resolute Serbs and the Germans they killed . Once the Germans knocked out Yugoslavia they would have to descend on Greece as the Allied bomber bases had to be overrun and the every day they advanced the front would be shortening in Central Greece increasing the density of defenders . Now that it was proved the Matilda was a super tank , the German panzers would be destroyed in Greece , and the comparisions with the Persians and the Greeks of the past centuries would just do wonders for public affairs , democracy winning against totalitarianism in the ancient fields of glory once again . The guerilla war in Yugoslavia would be useful in eroding the remaining German forces , to ease the counter attack . And no nice train rides across Russia , too ... That alone was worth the price , of not clearing the North Africa . Rommel arriving in the desert was wellcomed , as Germans would have to support their forces through sea , open to British naval interdiction . Less panzers for Greece and spies said there were no heavies anywhere , it was just a lie .

What happened was this . Germans were given an operational opening . Instead of doing weak diversionary attacks limited in scope by the need to not to disturb Serbians and grinding through the Metaxas line , they could outflank it en masse and the Macedonian front that was to be the first line of defense for British oil had no anti tank guns , not one . And the mass of decision , the German infantry marched 500 km in three weeks to kick the British out of Greece outflanking Thermopyhlai on the way .The only thing that the entire episode proved was that the German studies of the classics were much better . So much for the wisdom of college societies .

It is in the Liddle Hart book that Hungarians took part in the invasion but were not fond of doing it . Their tank force managed to run out of fuel in the first day and they remained where they were . Remember what oil does to those who are too poor to own oil companies . Yugoslavia as a country had no gas stations at the time ...

Winston Churchill's vision of 50 Balkan divisions fighting and dying on behalf of a good cause was not the only thing that went down the drain . Rommel's situation was hopeless so he bluffed and attacked and got to the gates of Egypt . The British forces in the Middle East had to be reinforced to the extent of weakening their forces in the Far East . The Japanese were looking for an opportunity as 1940 had knocked out the French and the Dutch , maybe they could bluff and get some more advantages before Americans joined the war and kicked the hell out of Germans . As Russia was so big and surprisingly strong as they had just given a bloody nose to Imperial Japanese Army , the next target of Washington should be Moscow and Tokyo planned on Western pardons in return for cooperation in Manchuria and beyond , to win their lebensraum in the Asian Continent . They invaded French Indochina in July 1941 to be returned in goodwill talks if things went well . If they did not , Germany could still defeat the Russians and they wouldn't return Vietnam . The West's brightest minds were so offended . To punish the second rate Japanese who had attempted to play the game without the blue eyed boys' permission , to underline the Anglosaxons were so democratic by punishing the dictatorial regimes when popular opinion was beginning to feel sorry for the Communists peasants who were now suffering under the Nazis , to scare everybody they issued an ultimatom that implied Japan would either take flight or the fight . It took the Japanese 4 months to agree to fight . On August 6th , 1941 they pleaded with Washington for an easier way . Four years on they would still be pleading about the option of colloborating in return for those goodies in Siberia . You must listen Americans claiming the two are unrelated . When the West showed no understanding because the Mediterranean option had painted them to a corner politically , because all mattered was public opinion since it could bring the unwashed to power in the next election if not properly controlled , because the boys had to look tough , the Imperial Japan started what has been called the greatest land grab in a defensive war .

The war aims of Japan was to acquire the mineral wealth to resist Western attacks until they understood the prize was elsewhere , say to their North-West and much bigger . Also it was absolutely necessary to establish a defensive line that would prevent any bomber reaching the Japanese Home Islands . Bombers were highly regarded in those days . Funnily enough the German war plans in Russia also drew a line about 2000 kilometres from Berlin specifically intented to keep bombers away . That was B-29 performance , something beyond any bomber could do in 1941 . You must see the way Americans reject that the Axis powers were so impressed by the type and the unitary warhead it would drop ...


1939 was a strange year . March 11th , the British foreign minister declared a golden age was upon the world . Next day , Nazis started the process of invading Czechoslovakia . Which London accepted without any fuss and at the end of the month declared it would defend Poland . The Western Allies made such a poor attempt of talking to the Russians that Moscow got a better deal from Berlin its declared archenemy . Next year under the guise of helping the gallant Finns the Allies intented to block iron ore exports to Germany by invading Norway , parts of Sweden and Finnland , which in the end would have meant they would fight the Soviets not to mention a sizeable proportion of Scandinavians .Indeed they would succeed in getting the Soviet Union into the Axis . Finns surrendered first . Since I read Liddle Hart recently , I have to quote him that Mannerheim the Finnish dictator feared the Allied help... One other next year and we have Allies pushing the Japanese to war despite the situation that wasn't particularly good for them . Yet especially American morals seem to be really high especially because of their new B-17s based in the Philippines that could reach Japan proper , once more according to Liddell Hart who himself doesn't believe in the claim . You should watch Americans stressing that they don't condone one way trips nor they did ever design a Kamikaze type bomber interceptor that the American pilot would crash into the enemy ; hear them claim there are no factory drawings for the last mentioned . It appears , but I won't confirm , everybody was expecting some new , totally new form of warfare to appear and their country would be the one to do it so that maps would be redrawn in a day . So there was no need to be subtle , all that mattered was public relations , getting people to accept the wholesale slaughter of the enemy was to be the norm in the new war . Interestingly the Allies were still planning to bomb Russian oilfields even after the Nazi attack ; because they were so smart they had taken everything Stalin had told them as gospel truth : such gems as the Nazis had attacked with 30 000 tanks achieving a 2.5 to 1 superiority to the Russian armour in theater and so far had lost only 8 000 . Which meant they were unstoppable and would capture the said oilfields , better start bombing them now as it would take time to destroy the targets . By 1941 there were doubts about the efficiency of bombers , their accuracy was a misnomer in that they rarely appeared to hit anything they attempted to hit . In a then famous attack 57 or so German bombers devastated Rotterdam in some sort of a fire support mission for German paratroopers who had captured bridges in the city center . Some wag has suggested to achieve the effect the bombers took aim at the bridges ! With such problems with aerial bombing one must suppose the new weapons were to be more efficient or any pretension to dignified behaviour had to be abandoned or both . Bomber Harris was a man who subscribed to the second method , he was all for bombing of cities because they were cities . Always seeing a danger in the specialized crews attacking pinpoint targets he sent the first Lancaster raid of the war on an especially dangerous and half thought out mission and there were the Dambusters , both attacks achieved success at horrific cost but they served Harris well , he could burn the heart of Germany showing this was more economical in percentage of losses until his lack of manners started to erode the moral high ground for the new type of war . Americans who were closest to the golden age , on the contrary , started a campaign of city busting to justify their long awaited moment of glory , there was no difference in the final results achieved ; destruction of factories and instruments of goverment alonside the workers and civil population which was to deter armies from effective fighting . After all Belgrade must be the only city in the annals of air warfare officially targeted out of hate . Guernica had its bridge , London had its docks , Hiroshima had the largest shipyard in Japan and a naval base and an Army Headquarters .

The stinkiest secret of the war .

The only thing doesn' t make sense is the early expectation that the material would be simply ready at the command of the dignified scientists . This is known as the bathroom method , because of the answers it produced . Politicians didn't have much understanding of the scale of the effort that gave results nor they wanted to remember the joke where the Native American says umpah to everything the American negotiator tells . But that didn't stop the politicians in their drive to redraw maps in a single day and their preparations for the public affairs that entailed .

By the way if you ever have to exchange bad words with a Serbian try American puppet . It seems to work .
 
I wasn't sure how to comment, but I think we are dealing with a bit of a language barrier and a rather 'unique style'.. There appear to be several disjointed threads, each of which could merit a full discussion:

1) the role of armour in WWII
2) the politics of the Balkans and British intervention
3) allied conspiracy theories and Pacific strategy
4) strategic bombing doctrine

There are some flawed comparisons but interesting insights nonetheless, and some controversial leaps of logic I can't decide if they need to be challenged or are examples of sarcasm. Somehow the last paragraph is supposed to tie it all together, but I'm still not sure what the stinkiest secret of the war was, or what it has to do with the Serbians. :dunno:
 
what is this i don't even
 
Is this thread about mushrooms at all?
 
Well, the guy who wrote this probably had some "medicinal" mushrooms.
 
GUSGe.jpg
 
6 replies that shows ı am back in style . Thanks to those all who read it . God willing in ten years time about 75% will be mainstream history .
 
6 replies that shows ı am back in style . Thanks to those all who read it . God willing in ten years time about 75% will be mainstream history .
When all six of those replies question your sanity and mock your writing style, I don't think it's a good thing buddy.
 
A lot of it is pretty interesting but it's really rambling. What was the stinkiest secret of the war?
 
A lot of it is pretty interesting but it's really rambling. What was the stinkiest secret of the war?

Probably the concentration camps. I can't imagine Auschwitz smelled too great.
 
I used some ointments and i no longer have this problem.
 
I wasn't really mocking the style, just pointing out that it is unique, maybe delusional, but definitely unique..
 
Well I kind of skimmed through this but I have some issues with this:

The huge successes of the panzers in the early parts of WW2 has inspired expenditure of far too much ink and paper ; but the victories are apt to be explained by the quote :

"The real strenght of armour in fact lay not in battle but pre-emption of battle ."

Where does this quote come from?


Liddell Hart , you have and will come across his name in textbooks , the strategist , journalist and historian mentions it explicitly , if only because he was instrumental shaping the British Army of WW2 by advising the pre war defence minister and could well be accused of gross negligience .

Complete lies. The British army hardly listened to him at all actually.


An enormous amount of experience from the Great War was still in place ; all the staff officers breathed the same air .

Sort of but not really. In Britain there was a lot of Arguements about the use of Armor

In France their were 3 Military schools of thought in the Interwar period:
1. The Creation of a large defensive line. Major proponent- Maginot
2. Building of many large fortresses in the same vein as Verdun. Major Proponent- Henri Petan
3. Large scale mechanization of the army. Major proponent- Charles de Gaulle

There has been much comment on the military ability of the French , the inventors of the Maginot mentality , on how they were so primitive in theory , so ponderous in action . The French calculated it would take Germans 9 days to reach Meuse ( from the unpassable Ardennes ) .

This seems contradictory


1930s had seen much debate on the uses of armour . Especially the British had seen tanks as a career move , extravagant pro and anti claims had been made for deep battle and the need for getting specially prepared for the eventuality : one is always reminded how the exasperated British High Command finally stopped upstarts and their bid to take over by copying Gandhi himself , a major exercise was won by the infantry laying down in the path of oncoming armour , guided by the wives of the defending officers .

What???


Winston Churchill's vision of 50 Balkan divisions fighting and dying on behalf of a good cause was not the only thing that went down the drain . Rommel's situation was hopeless so he bluffed and attacked and got to the gates of Egypt . The British forces in the Middle East had to be reinforced to the extent of weakening their forces in the Far East . The Japanese were looking for an opportunity as 1940 had knocked out the French and the Dutch , maybe they could bluff and get some more advantages before Americans joined the war and kicked the hell out of Germans . As Russia was so big and surprisingly strong as they had just given a bloody nose to Imperial Japanese Army , the next target of Washington should be Moscow and Tokyo planned on Western pardons in return for cooperation in Manchuria and beyond , to win their lebensraum in the Asian Continent . They invaded French Indochina in July 1941 to be returned in goodwill talks if things went well . If they did not , Germany could still defeat the Russians and they wouldn't return Vietnam . The West's brightest minds were so offended . To punish the second rate Japanese who had attempted to play the game without the blue eyed boys' permission , to underline the Anglosaxons were so democratic by punishing the dictatorial regimes when popular opinion was beginning to feel sorry for the Communists peasants who were now suffering under the Nazis , to scare everybody they issued an ultimatom that implied Japan would either take flight or the fight . It took the Japanese 4 months to agree to fight . On August 6th , 1941 they pleaded with Washington for an easier way . Four years on they would still be pleading about the option of colloborating in return for those goodies in Siberia . You must listen Americans claiming the two are unrelated . When the West showed no understanding because the Mediterranean option had painted them to a corner politically , because all mattered was public opinion since it could bring the unwashed to power in the next election if not properly controlled , because the boys had to look tough , the Imperial Japan started what has been called the greatest land grab in a defensive war .

This here seems to be a load of BS. What does it even mean
 
starting from the last : Don't have connection at home , ı go to web cafes when in town . So give me have some time to find the books and pages . Liddell Hart and his influence is much based on a Charles Messenger book . The claim that nobody cared for Hart is just like his pressure on Guderian , to clear himself a bit . For the rest let's see if we can improve ?

moderators , ı have to cut the so called article into pieces as a sop to style that is expected to conform . Please do not take this as an attempt to increase post count

as previously noted the first post is basically a copy and paste of an anti American diatribe that continues thus

A couple of words on the American ... His forefather is a tax evading English smuggler who gets real angry at this king who sent patrols after him , so he starts a show of a rebellion to mark his words . It gets out of control and the forefather finds himself in the country freezing . He attempts to surrender but as it is the Christmas day , the opposing army has taken the day off . The forefather wins handily and now demands more . Meanwhile one of the most capable British admirals has legal troubles at home so he sells cannons to the forefather to cover his legal expenses and leaves . The British replacement is a political choice and he loses to the French , which happens to be the only time the French have beaten the English at sea . So the forefather uses the cannons on the unsupported British Army and wins . London is so pissed off with Paris that spies start a libertarian rebellion in France . It gets out of control , becoming so big that London has to wait until Napoleon gets stuck in Russia to start the long planned destruction of America , but it also gets out of control . I don't know why but British generalship tends to go downhill when their troops outnumber the enemy . Your history teacher will correct a few of what I am saying but this is essentially it .

goes on like this seemingly forever , accusing the good people of Washington in nefarious plotting to destroy Turkey , between Bosnia and Kosovo . Was there when delivered , was among those who chuckled there and there .

highly political one might say . Arrant nonsense others might add .

not me obviously but there are people who notice the only fatality of that anthrax scare was a journalist in Florida and his comments on the American electoral process has now been well catalogued . Low level geniuses never understand the timidity of their superiors ; if only given a chance they would show the entire world .

of the people who notice , a new round of posts in various forums suggest Turkey has been given 5 extra months to live .Now that any plan worth calling a plan has to have a timetable to be adhered to ; a little declaration that clarifies who is represantative of whom and a rotten structure falls , it has been calculated and put on paper . And this is the 22nd reprieve since June 1990 , by the way . Posters talk of the man who wrote down the succint details of the plan on the foldout and pinned Bonnie Marino on the wall .

1896 , 97 or maybe 98 was the year of a short story , that was probably written by Winston Churchill , that talked of a fleet forcing a narrow sea passage to force down a tyrant , that was agreed to be the basis of operations , that included seperatists of the day occupying goverment buildings , that called for foreign advisors to slowly place flanges into steam pipes to halve the general speed of the fleet they were assigned to , that was religiously adhered to , that was catastrophic in the end because it had planned a humiliation of the rotten structure of the period yet it had failed to recognize a general war situation called for real force instead of a fear of troubles or even war that might wilt the will . Partyline is not Bible , you don't , actually can't flaunt it .Flexibility , the thing one always hears about , is when caught with your hand in the cookie jar , you claim that you are counting them today and tomorrow you are removing an ant . Flexibility is not going out to buy chocolates .

this country is solemnly lied to . Though ı don't care , ı am of the irritating web crowd who forward certain spam.

the dimwits of this country would have found a correlation between the day Americans declaring they were examining their relationship with Turkey and the day the seperatists declared a ceasefire for the duration , simply because they were the same . Luckily all the news channels are full of explanations that would drown any childish notion of this kind . ı don't care , ı always play modded .

the ultimate horror in US of A , yet another bunch of accountants , have released a report on Turkey , from which every newspaper and channel took a line or two according to their political taste . One ı heard was the success of the United States would be determined by the correct analysis of the motive that guides recent changes in political outlook .Even the Americans are telling their friends to behave , yet the friends are busy polishing their image acording to the old tenets . One group has promised to carry on the process under a new name , one other has offered the use of the intelligence service in industrial espionage , for a fee , on TV . These are the guys reporting on how the people they don't like are cracking .The cracking they hear is of the ice of the lake they are standing in the middle of , but they won't believe that , trusting the paved road under their feet . Although the cracking the West hears is of the LOX kind . Luckily nobody is calling off that bluff ...

oh yeah , nothing will change , the plan is awesome , the plan is secret , nobody knows it , nobody can oppose it .

in Civ terms this means Washington is allied to everybody including nominally me , yet he has Civ1 kind diplomats under different colours to buy off my cities and units , his allies have attacked me but ı can't since Lincoln will honour his commitments , leads in culture , gold , power , territory and the space race and he will be perfectly happy if ı give him 1gpt forever . Next game from turn one even if we haven't yet met , or even Abe is not in the game .

in real life terms this means US needs continious reminders that secret supercool plans that give er_ctions to to the planners are a bad way to go and a sure way of getting Uncle Sam handed his teeth .

in r16 terms , ı obligingly copy and paste .Have no fear , as ı said ı always play modded .

for those who care the problem is that who used to care are no more . THe oldtimers are long gone , and the new breed who haven't seen in this on paper fail to grasp what has been said to them . The oldtimers would , time to time , blush when August 6th , 1941 and August 6 , 1945 were mentioned in the same sentence . The new generation goes " What ? " , and in good faith declare that there is no secret foolproof , supercool , unbelieveably smart plan against paranoid losers who been around long enough . Nor there were any against anybody , unfortunately even those who were demonstratably evil .

" ... an excited news commentator read us the first bulletin of the attack on Hawaii .All we learned was that "unidentified planes had made an attack on Pearl Harbour."

Foolish grins betrayed our initial excitement at this Orson Wellesian announcement , but our natural impulse skepticism won out.

"Some dope dropped a smoke bomb on Waikiki Beach" one of us ventured .

" Army planes got lost again . I wonder if they jettisoned their bombs this time ."

" Maybe a Jap Admiral got a bug in his noggin and sent in an attack group. " "

These are taken from a wartime book about American navy pilots flying torpedo bombers .

" ... A small group of parachutists were landed on one of the [Hawaiian] islands , bulletins affirmed . The radio hinted at future press censorship . As these reports filled the air it only gradually dawned on us that a major attack on Hawaii had been effected .

" Our conception of the Japs as ridiculous cameramen with buckteeth began to change , although we still didn't think of the new enemy as intelligent and courageous foe . "

" At the hangar we were ordered to stand by . We wandered about among the planes watching ordnancemen loading new and fresh looking 500 - pound bombs under the bellies of SBD Douglas dive bombers . We were a bewildered and slightly disbelieving lot . We couldn't comprehend that there was no simple explanation for the attack and the whole affair would not be smoothed over on the morrow "

"... during the afternoon varying reports of the radio informed us the Japs had attacked Hawaii but not Manila, taken Wake Island ... placed landing parties on Borneo and Australia ...

"As the evidence mounted during the evening that Jap action undoubtedly was backed by their goverment , commentators had no doubt we would declare on the morrow . "

" San Diego was undergoing its first blackout .The presence of fifty to sixty unidentified planes in the San Fransisco area a few hours earlier was the reason . "

please be informed that in 1944 USN reported or rather allowed the reporting of an attack on the Midway based Avenger unit

"The planes were not ten minutes out on their heading when two enemy craft plummeted out of the brightening sky above them and made a pass . Earnest [pilot of the only survivor out of 6 planes that took off ] thout they were Messerchmitt fighters (Me 109s) .They made only one run , firing all the way in but didn't hit anybody ."

typical Kraut action , jumps you 10 000 miles away from where he should be and just wastes the chance to pinprick the US as he is dumber than the cows he should have been attenting to in the Bavarian hills . British loss of Prince of Wales and Revenge , as anyone knows was also due to either Tirpitz or 1000 Japanese planes that took of from carriers , one is always allowed to take a pick . Or maybe , one needs to explain how came every single torpedo bomber unit of the USN found the Japanese fleet but the fighters and dive bombers did not , that is until the weakly controlled Zero screen descended to wipe out the torpedo squadrons , resulting "in the openest goal in the history of naval warfare ." Since this is not easy to do , one then must blame " luck - the constant and baffling major factor in naval warfare " . Talking of parties , groups , gangs whatevers inevitably leads to wild eyed , foaming mouth type conspiracy bubbling which will inevitably mention before Pearl Nimitz was number 29 or so in the succession list of USN . When one reads the author Mears writing so highly of Waldron the squadron commander and rationalize the events , it comes as no surprise to see he was also killed in action later in the war . Compared to Pearl , Bin Ladin is just a guy with a beard .

and to road to Pearl starts from a nicely furnished room where the boys just came up with a great plan to fool the Hitlerite armies into a trap . Evidence ? What evidence , we don't work with evidence . All one needs is a preconceived notion that to cover up the failing the supreme master plan , those responsible just went deeper . Excitement and diversion of new events would allow pulling wool over the eyes of who would have wondered the ugly word of why . So the yellow tinted , weird eyed , easy to laugh at Japanese weighing 100 pounds each were given all the ropes they needed to hang themselves . USS Ward , the Japanese midget she sank , and the net left open invariably lead to seriously angry Navy guys if they know where the talk leads , hurts when foreign landlubbers talk of such idiocy . Distraction is the saviour , excitement is the winner and the smart boys keep their room . And by God , their mantra is passed on .

the immediate salvation for the super duper Mediterrenean strategy was to be a success in the Pasific . The Japanese didn't have the potential to stand up to the West , in 1938 the Popular Mechanics published the strategy to win a war in the Pasific in 60 days according to Ernest Hemingway, the victory was assured . So we have the British who have totally cracked the Japanese codes , who open fire on a confused convoy of Japanese invasion troops who had arrived early one day before Pearl , who need American goodwill and a little more and the Americans who apparently haven't cracked the Japanese code as throughly - we have been assured over the years this is indeed so . It was in one of these mushroom threads that Halsey "went on the warpath " before Pearl , as the Japanese were showing signs of not being fully up to date on how this world was run , they had to be taught . One or two ships of IJN scouting would be found and destroyed by Enterprise and that would be it . Whole affair being smoothed on the morrow . Those little people of Tokyo , what could they do ? To make the navy guys totally mad one is advised to remind what Bull Halsey did on the day of the Japanese attack . Advised the second wave of Japanese aircraft were retiring North , he turned South to locate the Japanese fleet . American history says the direction was sent mistaken , 180 degrees off . As if Anglosaxons are the only people who can crack codes and log transmissions . When faced with 100+ waves , it would have been easy for the officers of the Enterprise to deduce that there would be those one or two scouts and a bit more , slightly more than they could reasonably chew . There would be a day of reckoning , was surely due , but it was not that 7th of December .

the officers were so confident of themselves .They were of the boys , a race apart . The book names the 6 pilots of the Midway Avenger unit ; the 5 officer pilots are given name , surname followed by a parentheses containing rank , initials , surname and a few words that describe the man , the enlisted one is only "short , stocky Woodside" . The officers were confident of holding the reins . And no doubt those officers were still in Halsey's command center when he was chasing the decoy carriers as the Japanese battleline burst onto Kincaid . Wrong history again mate , Kincaid did really transmitt "The whole world wonders where [Halsey] is ? "

the boys expected the Japanese to be of the type that loses everyday , everyway . No proof will be offered , but Mears looks to be of the kind who expects something to happen and it will end undoubtedly good . ı know , from being members in some weird forum , a couple of guys who have survived point by point sessions against Americans despite claiming Captain Elles , an USMC legend who knew which beaches the Japanese would land years before they landed in December 1941 , was , well ...

oh yeah , them sure know how to infiltrate .

what the boys are doing today is well beyond my scope of understanding . Though one can just suppose they have found a match in certain people in the East . Certain people who take pride in their long history of skillful diplomacy that no longer needs to pay heed to the days of Tomrys as the world has surely changed . Certain people on whom silly words do not register , foolishness just disappears into thin air . Certain people who brush off weird sentences that advise not to hijack other's idiocy or stupid threats that go on like do not get us into tower building .

when caught between the hammer and the anvil , the tradition calls for the destruction of either the hammer or anvil , whichever seen first .

Moderator Action: Posts merged. Please don't make multiple posts like that.
 

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lolwhut?
 
again, lolwhut.

carrying on from last year , every what ı recieve in reply to my posts is added to a list , will earn me a couple of things when it reaches the dozen thousand . So thanks , everything helps .
 
Moderator Action: r16, if people are criticising your writing style, it is not because you have written long posts and need to break the material over several posts. It is because your individual sentences dance mesmerisingly between the minimally comprehensible and the completely obscure, taking in the occasional absurdity along the way. If you want a sensible discussion please try to write more clearly. Imagine what reading your sentences is like for someone who isn't you.

Now at least someone tried to engage with what r16 wrote rather than express bafflement. Please, if anyone can't manage to do likewise, refrain from posting.
 
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