Yield value discussion (food vs others)

[Wario Mario]

You're forgetting that every wonder you build increases the cost of future wonders.

G

I'd have to know something first to forget it

 

[Atlas627]

You're forgetting that every wonder you build increases the cost of future wonders.

G

Yeah I do keep forgetting that because it isn't indicated anywhere

Nevertheless, getting to the Wonder's unlock first is still pretty much guaranteed to result in a successful build. And isn't the Wonder's effect worth more than those extra hammers?

Also, its only an anti-snowball mechanic, not a comeback mechanic. So the leader builds fewer wonders, but the 2nd place guy just builds them instead. Players 5-8 are easily still screwed.

 

[Gazebo]

Yeah I do keep forgetting that because it isn't indicated anywhere

Nevertheless, getting to the Wonder's unlock first is still pretty much guaranteed to result in a successful build. And isn't the Wonder's effect worth more than those extra hammers?

Also, its only an anti-snowball mechanic, not a comeback mechanic. So the leader builds fewer wonders, but the 2nd place guy just builds them instead. Players 5-8 are easily still screwed.

That's about all you can do. Leaders tend to win and winners tend to lead. Some snowball is inevitable in a game with ever-upward growth.

G

 

[Atlas627]

That's about all you can do. Leaders tend to win and winners tend to lead. Some snowball is inevitable in a game with ever-upward growth.

G

Snowball is fine! But nothing should be so one-dimensional. Some things should work better if you're ahead, and some should work better if you're behind. Wonders never work better if you're behind.

Maybe that should be the one category in the game that has no comeback potential, but I don't think so. Its not a big deal either way, but I think moving some wonders to policies only is easier and better than what you're looking at doing.

 

[tu_79]

Snowball is fine! But nothing should be so one-dimensional. Some things should work better if you're ahead, and some should work better if you're behind. Wonders never work better if you're behind.

Maybe that should be the one category in the game that has no comeback potential, but I don't think so. Its not a big deal either way, but I think moving some wonders to policies only is easier and better than what you're looking at doing.

Scientific Civilizations will still arrive first to some wonders, and now Cultural Civs will arrive first to most of them (science is cheaper when you are behind, culture isn't).

Militaristic Civilizations don't spend their time building useless wonders. Instead, they raise armies to conquer those wonder cities. The turns the don't misuse building wonders are better spent in hammers and units. The only wonders they'll ever need are now secured in a Social Policy Tree.
Diplo Civs are the only ones that may find it difficult to build any. They'll have to balance science and culture.

I think a comeback mechanic can be to let Trade Routes bring culture. Rigth now, Trade Routes bring money (obviously, trade do that), religion pressure (some of your merchants are converted) and beakers if that city knows a tech that you don't have (your merchants have seen those things and share the knowledge). It makes sense to send trade routes to a culturally advanced civ and receive some culture to your nation. It also helps the other civ to have more tourism (if I remember correctly, some buildings grants tourism from trade routes).

It could be something like "Trade Route grants (K * Era * (Their # of SP - your # of SP)) culture", where K is a constant that allows for tweaking.

If this is implemented, Science Civs will prefer to trade with Culture Civs. Domination Civs will trade with Science and Culture Civs equally, but will receive less gold for the fewer incoming trade routes (it is a reason to desire vengeance and conquer those pity selfish nations). Diplo Civs will prefer to trade with CS, just trading with a CS allows for friendship and they can earn much more trading with allied CS (surpassed only when trading with a civ that has rocketed its science or culture). Culture Civs will receive more incoming TR than anyone and will need to spread their trade routes to get more tourism, dedicate some for Science Civs and focus it later on civs that resist being influenced (usually other culture powers). Civs that focus on gold and trade routes will find it easier to catch up.

EDIT: Maybe it scales better with this other formula "Trade route grants ((Their # of SP) ^K / (My # of SP)) culture", where K is a real number between 1 and 3. It doesn't take era into account, and allows for fast recovering if you are very backward.

 

[Moi Magnus]

Scientific Civilizations will still arrive first to some wonders, and now Cultural Civs will arrive first to most of them (science is cheaper when you are behind, culture isn't).

Militaristic Civilizations don't spend their time building useless wonders. Instead, they raise armies to conquer those wonder cities. The turns the don't misuse building wonders are better spent in hammers and units. The only wonders they'll ever need are now secured in a Social Policy Tree.
Diplo Civs are the only ones that may find it difficult to build any. They'll have to balance science and culture.

I think a comeback mechanic can be to let Trade Routes bring culture. Rigth now, Trade Routes bring money (obviously, trade do that), religion pressure (some of your merchants are converted) and beakers if that city knows a tech that you don't have (your merchants have seen those things and share the knowledge). It makes sense to send trade routes to a culturally advanced civ and receive some culture to your nation. It also helps the other civ to have more tourism (if I remember correctly, some buildings grants tourism from trade routes).

It could be something like "Trade Route grants (K * Era * (Their # of SP - your # of SP)) culture", where K is a constant that allows for tweaking.

If this is implemented, Science Civs will prefer to trade with Culture Civs. Domination Civs will trade with Science and Culture Civs equally, but will receive less gold for the fewer incoming trade routes (it is a reason to desire vengeance and conquer those pity selfish nations). Diplo Civs will prefer to trade with CS, just trading with a CS allows for friendship and they can earn much more trading with allied CS (surpassed only when trading with a civ that has rocketed its science or culture). Culture Civs will receive more incoming TR than anyone and will need to spread their trade routes to get more tourism, dedicate some for Science Civs and focus it later on civs that resist being influenced (usually other culture powers). Civs that focus on gold and trade routes will find it easier to catch up.

EDIT: Maybe it scales better with this other formula "Trade route grants (Their # of SP) ^K / (My # of SP)", where K is a number between 1 and 3. It doesn't take era into account, and allows for fast recovering if you are very backward.

Not necessarily the best idea : if trading with other give them culture, trade-route will become counter-productive for tourism victory. (whereas it is supposed to be one of the main way to produce tourisme)

 

[Sub6]

Here's the current WIP list, for those interested:

It seems interesting.
However, how about releasing a new non-beta version before you proceed to the next step?

 

[tu_79]

Not necessarily the best idea : if trading with other give them culture, trade-route will become counter-productive for tourism victory. (whereas it is supposed to be one of the main way to produce tourisme)

Yeah, I thought so. It can be offset by the extra tourism it provides, or, if it proves to be insufficient, increase the tourism gained by trade routes. So culture gained through trade routes won't help to avoid being influenced.

It was just a suggestion to allow to recover culture for culturally backward civs, as asked by GamerKG.

I really prefer to left it as it is, and give other kind of advantages to civs that can't build as many wonders (like easier fights for warmongers or stronger UN Decisions for diplomats).