"You are a bad Belgian and you have signed your own death warrant."

[Bozo Erectus]

Perhaps Patrick Buchanan is a reasonable equivalence of the various European nationalist parties - he can't get large numbers of Republicans because he can't win a general election, but I suspect that were he to get media coverage similar to what the "big two" always get, he'd have 5-10% of the public ready to vote for him in the absence of the strategic voting realities.

I dont know about that. Buchanon is really a lone voice in the wilderness. Do you mean that in the absence of the locked in two party system, he'd get around 10% of the vote nationally? Its possible I suppose, but Im not feeling it. He's just one loose cannon out there shooting his mouth off, mostly as a TV pundit, theres no grassroots political support for him out there. Anyone who is too extreme gets buried and never gets a chance to have much of an impact. He's sort of a right wing Ross Perot. His popularity has more to do with his personality than with his politics, if he were out of the picture, his 'movement' such as it is, would fizzle away.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

His popularity has more to do with his personality than with his politics,

Bingo. That is exactly the main reason for LePen, Bossi, Fini (formerly), Schönhber, Haider. You nailed it.
Actually, most of the so-called right-extremist parties in Europe are in fact Populist parties. Not even their supporters care a lot about the program, it's all about personality.

Btw, we do really differentiate between those two types of parties here. Fortuyn is a prime example for a Populist who could hardly be called a Fascist. And while Populist Parties may gain a lot of votes in a short time, on the long run they almost always vanish (like the German Republikaner), or revert to their former politics (FPÖ). LePen only seems to life forever...but the FN won't be that important without him.
On the other side, there are those dedicated Nazi parties. And once they get controlled by actually smart people (again, German NPD), they turn into a real problem. For example, in large parts of rural Eastern Germany, "Skinheadism"/Nazism is the predominant youth culture today, thanks to a well-organized NPD.

 

[Goonie]

In all seriousness, probably everyone that disagrees with you are stupid.

Clearly my comment did go way over your head, because my comment had nothing to do with intelligence, nor did it have anything to do with people agreeing or disagreeing with me.

Perhaps you need to have a dictionary open beside you when you post.


@Stapel, why do you make me go hunting? You said it, you know you did. Here it is :

I do have what you might refer to as veil-hatred.

 

[Stapel]

@Stapel, why do you make me go hunting? You said it, you know you did. Here it is :

Can't you see the difference? You deliberately have taken the nuancation away.

I have what YOU might refer to as hatred.

It disturbs me you thus conclude I actually hate something.

I guess there is no way arguing against your bias.....

 

[amadeus]

The closest we've gotten recently to that sort of thing was David Duke back in 80's who was a KKK racist running as a Republican.

No-no-no-no-no-no-no-no aaaaaaahhhhhhh everybody's heard about the Byrd! Byrd, Byrd, Byrd! Byrd is the word!

 

[JohnRM]

More fun with burkhas:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4223307.stm

Veil hatred continues to sweep through Europe, this time Belgium. Youd have thought that after 9/11 it would be the U.S. behaving this way, not Europe. Is this anti Muslim feeling going to keep growing? What are the root causes of it? Where is Europe heading in regard to Muslims?

ACHTUNG ALL FASCISTS: Go make your own threads

Europeans hate all religions equally.

 

[mrtn]

Clearly my comment did go way over your head, because my comment had nothing to do with intelligence, nor did it have anything to do with people agreeing or disagreeing with me.

Perhaps you need to have a dictionary open beside you when you post.
...

You posted a pejorative oneliner, and then told Stapel to stop posting pejorative oneliners. I called you on that and you abuse me? This make me need a dictionary?
Perhaps you need a book on good manners beside you when you post.

 

[Goonie]

@mrtn, no not true. You did not know the meaning of pejorative in those first two posts you made regarding my statement. I see however that that has changed. Congratulations.

@Stapel, how was that comment to be interpreted? Inference can be a tricky thing.

 

[Stapel]

@Stapel, how was that comment to be interpreted? Inference can be a tricky thing.

I got the strong impression you have made up your mind too quick on how I think about several matters discussed in this thread. It are delicate issues, and they are not easily explained in a few sentences.

I got the impression that when I try to bring some nuancations to it, you refer to them as simple one-liners.

When I spend many sentences on what I like and dislike about certain symbols, and when I write why I think these symbols are sometimes harmless, sometimes dangerous, but possibly a very vague combination where it is quite impossible to tell what they are, your conclusion I have hate for these symbols is quite annoying.

Furthermore, where our discussion began, I refered to the lack of certain freedoms in the US, you reacted quite strong.
Maybe I should note I never wrote down I think it's better in that many countries in the world. You immediately started comparing stuff with Europe. No need to do that, imho. I don't think it's better here in most countries. But, when a nation is 'accused' of whatever, the excuse it is still better than other nations is rather cheap.

I was also very much annoyed by your assumption some people are not regarded as persons over here.
I guess you must see what is actually going on here. Religious extremism is actually a real problem here. Not so much from the outside, but from the inside. A problem we thought off as totally impossible, a few years ago. Though I don't claim to have the solution, it bothers me that any attempt to analyse this, always attracts people that are fully ready to flame you down for being hateful, intolerant, xenophobic, or whatever.

Usually, people who do so, insist on thinking so. It can be a nasty bias, which is very tough to break.

I got the strong impression you've got this bias.
Oh well, maybe I'm guilty too.....

Furthermore, I'm not familiar with the word inference.

 

[mrtn]

@mrtn, no not true. You did not know the meaning of pejorative in those first two posts you made regarding my statement. I see however that that has changed. Congratulations.
...

You have no idea what you're talking about. If you didn't show off your cluelessness in such a rude manner I'd be amused.

Moderator Action: Warned for trolling
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[punkbass2000]

Some of us manage to be amused anyway

 

[Goonie]

Stapel - nuancations is not english.

in·fer·ence Audio pronunciation of "inference" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (nfr-ns)
n.

1.
1. The act or process of deriving logical conclusions from premises known or assumed to be true.
2. The act of reasoning from factual knowledge or evidence.

If you say " I have what you might call as veil-hatred." Most people are going to assume that you hate veils. If this is not the case, choose your words carefully. You could have added another clause to that sentence that says "but I don't!"

@mrtn

I cannot believe that you are still going on about this. Let us look at what started this.

I said this in regards to Stapel's comments which I deemed a littel condescending. ie : "A pretty low act of yours." I asked him politely not to:

Your pejorative one liners aren't accomplishing anything useful. Enough of that thanks.

You then said this :

That's a pretty high horse, you wanna step down from it?

There is a difference between disliking a symbol and disliking the people who wear it.

Not sure how I was acting as though I was on a high horse or anything, but half your comment had made it seem that you didn't know what I was asking Stapel to do.

I then answered with this to see if you correctly understood me (yes this was a little rude):

In all seriousness though, perhaps what I said went over your head?

You then brought up the idea of intelligence. Pejorative comments has nothing to do with intelligence. This is how I know you had yet to look up the word.

In all seriousness, probably everyone that disagrees with you are stupid.

I cannot believe that you have turned my little request to Stapel into such a big deal. It's over. I shall address it no more.

 

[King Alexander]

Some of us manage to be amused anyway

Amen, brother! Hallelujah!!! Praise the Lord!

btw: nice sig

Religious extremism is actually a real problem here. Not so much from the outside, but from the inside. A problem we thought off as totally impossible, a few years ago.

Why impossible? You always have to think the long-term consequences before allowing something and if you see that something becomes a problem, take care of it with laws before it's too late.

I don't know if you have burkhas there, but that discriminates against women according to the culture and the laws you already have; it's naive to accept to give in to burkhas and deteriorate women's rights(if you had a girl - I don't know if you already have one - and her husband wanted/demanded her to wear burkha, how would that sound to you?('demanded'= a woman is inferior to a man) I'm certainly you wouldn't like it at all, because you raised her with values that sexes are equal with each other). One could easily justify any crime, torture and much more in the name of 'religious freedom'.

How about female circumcision? Would that also fall under 'freedom' of religion?
I'd definetly CASTRATE someone that would dare to practise female circumcision in my country.

Respecting someone else's religion, doesn't mean that one will abandon all the culture and laws he already has, nor means that the believer has a 'green light' to do whatever he wants and be above any laws - one's in a BIG misunderstanding if he believes the previous.

Though I don't claim to have the solution, it bothers me that any attempt to analyse this, always attracts people that are fully ready to flame you down for being hateful, intolerant, xenophobic, or whatever.

I already answered to that: see above. If you care that men and women have equal rights, you won't bothered of what extremists say.

btw: that used to bother me too, but not anymore. I'm not going to bulldoze my laws and culture for having superior/uncontrolled 'freedom' of religion.

P.S.: I already have posted enough for a particular religion, so it's about time to post about another one, too - I won't only judge the most popular religion in my place, but others as well.

Europeans hate all religions equally.

Won't tolerate religious fanatics, I'd say. Dark Ages/Inquisition are behind our times.