Your Drones are belong to us!

[Colonel]

I think that would still be defeating our Japanese overlords.

The point is the US is deemed the "big bully" right now even if they are not "overlords". It is in US "genetics" to be imperial, and even more so, if we continually forget how we started in the first place.

Since the inception of the American idea it has been in our blood to be imperial. We have this nice "rosy" view of American Patriots destroying the old Imperial order and establishing a nation without Imperialist ideals. The thing that is forgotten is that once we had beaten the British what was the first idea that popped into the thoughts of Americans, "Manifest Destiny". This idea may have originally meant that we should expand across the continent but with the dawn of the 20th century this became an idea to spread our culture and American interest across the globe.

 

[Leoreth]

Why is it in American interest that Iran is a democracy?

 

[red_elk]

Apply enough effective force to a country and you will see the change that you wish. It took two atomic bombs to stop Japan but what happened, they accepted our ultimatum "Surrender or die".

So, you propose to kill hundreds of thousands of people who happen to support the government which you dislike? Very democratic.
Reading such comments I can only feel that I wish Iranians all the best in getting nuclear weapons as soon as possible, because this is the only thing which can effectively protect them.

 

[Leoreth]

So, you propose to kill hundreds of thousands of people who happen to support the government which you dislike? Very democratic.
Reading such comments I can only feel that I wish Iranians all the best in getting nuclear weapons as soon as possible, because this is the only thing which can effectively protect them.

Exactly. As much as I dislike the Iranian government, while the media tries to portray them as irrational fanatics, their current behavior is entirely understandable and rational.

 

[Colonel]

Why is it in American interest that Iran is a democracy?

I don't care if they are a democracy and frankly I don't think that area of the world is ready for democracy. All I want is the Iranian government to cease any nuclear, biological, or chemical weapon development, reduce its military to a solely defensive force with no power projection ability, and cease supporting any terrorist organization. These three things happen and I would be fine with leaving Iran alone.

So, you propose to kill hundreds of thousands of people who happen to support the government which you dislike? Very democratic. Reading such comments I can only feel that I wish Iranians all the best in getting nuclear weapons as soon as possible, because this is the only thing which can effectively protect them.

Well I suppose you are entitled to your right to want a global nuclear war because that is what will happen if the Iranians build an actual nuclear weapon. If we don't nuke them then the Israelis will and that will be the spark for a global nuclear Armageddon.

 

[timtofly]

Since the inception of the American idea it has been in our blood to be imperial. We have this nice "rosy" view of American Patriots destroying the old Imperial order and establishing a nation without Imperialist ideals. The thing that is forgotten is that once we had beaten the British what was the first idea that popped into the thoughts of Americans, "Manifest Destiny". This idea may have originally meant that we should expand across the continent but with the dawn of the 20th century this became an idea to spread our culture and American interest across the globe.

I am sure that Eve used the same line on Adam. Destructive thinking is not always the best. It is in our blood, but throwing off the chains-that-bind, has never equated to finding other's who "need" to fit in "OUR" mold.

 

[red_elk]

Well I suppose you are entitled to your right to want a global nuclear war because that is what will happen if the Iranians build an actual nuclear weapon. If we don't nuke them then the Israelis will and that will be the spark for a global nuclear Armageddon.

"Global nuclear Armageddon" sounds very pompous, but in fact wrong - neither US nor Israel have ever attacked a nuclear country. When Iran will get nukes, it will be relatively safe from U.S. aggression. While I don't think it will be good if Iran get nukes since it will further change balance of power in the region, I can perfectly understand the wish of Iranian government to protect their people from foreign aggression.

 

[peter grimes]

I don't care if they are a democracy and frankly I don't think that area of the world is ready for democracy. All I want is the Iranian government to cease any nuclear, biological, or chemical weapon development, reduce its military to a solely defensive force with no power projection ability, and cease supporting any terrorist organization. These three things happen and I would be fine with leaving Iran alone.

Funny thing is, if you replace Iran with USA, you capture my feelings perfectly

 

[innonimatu]

A bombing campaign against Iran, unless we bring it to genocide levels, would not result in an overthrow of the government. Rather, the hard-line conservatives would get more power and Iran would increase their involvement with terrorist groups.

Correct. There in no internal opposition groups strong and willing enough to serve as an american Quisling in Iran, just with the backing of bombs. Even the nazis had to actually send in troops to Norway...

Even at genocide levels of bombing, I still don't see the situation turning to our favor. The current government might fall, but the new government enjoying popular support wouldn't be entertaining a western viewpoint.

If it is genocide-leves, the new government would be an outright colonial administration. I wonder, would the US send in settlers to take over the territory?
In any case, in this totally unrealistic scenario the whole rest of the world would be scrambling to set up a military alliance directed against the USA and to embargo it.
I also highly doubt that the US can actually produce enough bombs, before embargo effects start to kick in, to murder the whole population of Iran through bombing, let alone keep up enough planes to do it. And it certainly would not be having troops to spare for killing them methodically with death squads, because those would be mostly tied up keeping its absolutely survival-critical arabian oil "protectorates" under control and evacuating Afghanistan under attack from anything the russians, indians, pakistanis and chinese could hit them with there short of declaring open war. Meanwhile, Europe would finally have its federal union. Hell, it might even be scared enough to have it include Russia!

Oh, wait, you were not discussing an actual genocide of the 75 million iranians, were you?

 

[dirtyparrot]

It's a bit interesting to see how quickly some are willing to throw away the lives of a whole bunch of people like it was nothing.

 

[Ajidica]

I don't care if they are a democracy and frankly I don't think that area of the world is ready for democracy. All I want is the Iranian government to cease any nuclear, biological, or chemical weapon development, reduce its military to a solely defensive force with no power projection ability, and cease supporting any terrorist organization. These three things happen and I would be fine with leaving Iran alone.

Question: If they supported the USAF after we committed aerial genocide against them - intending to use the terror of the bombing campaings to enact a regime change- would that be considered support for a terrorist organization?

Well I suppose you are entitled to your right to want a global nuclear war because that is what will happen if the Iranians build an actual nuclear weapon. If we don't nuke them then the Israelis will and that will be the spark for a global nuclear Armageddon.

The Iranians aren't stupid. They understand full well the dangers of nuclear weapons, and that every Gulf Princeling and Intelligence Agency will either be trying to sieze it or destroy it. As such, they would likely do the Pakistani method of nuclear weapon storage. In short, they would scatter all of the useful bits around the country as a fail safe to ensure that a singe maniac could not start WWIII. The Americans and Russians did similar things to ensure the safety of their nukes. (Or in Iran's case, making sure others don't steal it). Furthermore, unless the Iranians somehow got their hands on solid fuel rockets, they would be using highly corrosive liquid fuel in their rockets, like the Pakistani's. As such, we would have a roughly six hour window between Iran erecting the missile and the launching, same as with the last Kashmir crisis. I would be very suspect if we didn't have a plan, with or without NATO, to destroy the Pakistani rockets, let alone Iranian should they be prepared for launching.
Lastly, the only people in Iran who would use the weapon, provided some intelligence was used in the distribution of missile components*, would be the hardliners if they felt seriously threatened. Which, unfortunately, is exactly what is happened with people like Ahmedinijad. Moderates like Rafsanjani or liberals like Khatami struggle to get support** when just about everything coming out from America is "Lets sanction them like we did to Saddam! That really taught Saddam a lesson!" or presidential candidates seriously considering an invasion of Iran!

*which is highly likely given the fractious nature of Iranian politics and the divide between the Revolutionary Guard, the Supreme Leader, and the President
**Yes, I know they aren't actualy running, I just used them as two examples for the types of candidates.

 

[Leoreth]

I don't care if they are a democracy and frankly I don't think that area of the world is ready for democracy. All I want is the Iranian government to cease any nuclear, biological, or chemical weapon development, reduce its military to a solely defensive force with no power projection ability, and cease supporting any terrorist organization. These three things happen and I would be fine with leaving Iran alone.

You think you can stop them from developing weapons by threatening them?

Also, why do you think that a popular revolution against the current regime will automatically be pro US?

 

[Ajidica]

Also, why do you think that a popular revolution against the current regime will automatically be pro US?

Whenever we help a regime change occurs, the people always love us! Or did you forget how much the Iranians loved us after we gave them the Shah back?

 

[Leoreth]

Well, the Shah loved you, which was at least something. Still didn't turn out well.

 

[r16]

and of course , he was allowed to push to his country to the brink and right then his power the army generals were told by Washington to be democratic and all , avoiding the bloodbath which allowed the religious authorities to topple the Shah . Cute ...