Your Missionary Fails to Spread Religion

[br_casino]

In my experience if I am pumping out missionaries to spread religion, there comes a point when the failure rate approaches 100%. Then I wait 10 turns or so to start up again.

Does anyone know how the success/failure of spreading religion is calculated?

Thanks

 

[Rast]

I don't know the exact numbers, but in general cities that already have several religions are resistant to the spread of a new one, and holy cities are always quite resistant to any other religion.

 

[VoiceOfUnreason]

CvUnit::spread()

A percentage chance of converting a city is calculated, then compared against the roll of the dice.

Assuming the usual seven religion game, for converting your own cities (or those of your teammates), you start with 100% if there are no religions in the city, and that number falls by 8+ percent per religion. For opposing cities, you start at 100%, and drop by 11+ percent.

Because of the integer math, there's a bit of rounding, and it normally doesn't favor the religious spread.

Exact percentages (assuming the RNG isn't broken)

[pre]
Religions Your Opponent's
Present City City
0 100 100
1 91 88
2 82 77
3 74 65
4 65 54
5 57 42
6 48 31
[/pre]

 

[br_casino]

Cool...thx

 

[Sisiutil]

Interesting... VoU, do you know if additional attempts are calculated differently? I ask because in my experience, if I have 2 missionaries available, and the first one fails to convert the city, the second one almost always succeeds.

 

[malekithe]

Interesting... VoU, do you know if additional attempts are calculated differently? I ask because in my experience, if I have 2 missionaries available, and the first one fails to convert the city, the second one almost always succeeds.

I was looking at the code earlier today; every attempt is calculated the exact same. Past failures have no impact on future success (aside from side-effects from the PRNG). You've most-likely simply experienced a statistical anomaly if you've never had two missionaries fail in a row; I know I've seen it (3-4 in a row actually).

 

[carl corey]

Especially in multiple religions cities (4+) I've seen up to 4 missionaries in a row fail. Happened in my "Lust for Gold" game. And I bet the others who have played "Lust for Gold" can give you a lot of "missionary horror storries" too. What strikes me as odd in VoU's post is that this doesn't seem to be a function of the influence that particular religion has in the area. I've always spread a religion gradually, moving from cities that already have it to adjacent ones, instead of going farther away, even if the closer one had more religions already in it. Maybe it's not such a good idea after all...

 

[VoiceOfUnreason]

What strikes me as odd in VoU's post is that this doesn't seem to be a function of the influence that particular religion has in the area.

Nope. The only thing that's close to that is that the magic spreading of religions is a function of the connection to the holy city (its length), and the existance of the shrine.

But for missionaries, the only factors are whether the missionary can spread the religion at all (Theocracy, this religion already present) and how many religions are already present.

 

[CharlieM]

So... when I left-click and 'test-drag' one of my missionaries into a foreign city, and I don't get any option to spread Religion, that's because .... because why?

Some cities I can spread to, and some I can't. I don't understand.

And secondly, the spread of religion that happens 'automatically' (I get a message saying "Judaism has spread in Istanbul," for example) happens for what reason? What factors influence that?

 

[oldsaxon]

So... when I left-click and 'test-drag' one of my missionaries into a foreign city, and I don't get any option to spread Religion, that's because .... because why?

If the AI is using the Theocracy civic, you can't spread your religions to their cities.

And secondly, the spread of religion that happens 'automatically' (I get a message saying "Judaism has spread in Istanbul," for example) happens for what reason? What factors influence that?

- Whether Istanbul is in the same trade network as a Muslim city
- Whether Istanbul is in the same trade network as the Muslim holy city
- Certain random events

It's more complicated than that - I forget whether open borders matters, for example - but basically if you're on the same trade network then you've got a good chance.

Oh, and religion only ever spreads naturally to cities that don't have any other religion already.

 

[Refar]

You cant spread religion in a opponents city, if he's running theocrathy. There are - afaik - no other things to prvent it.

The spontaneous spread is - as it says - spontaneous... Every city that is free of religions has a chance every turn to get a religion spread into it, if it is connected to the Holy city via Trade network. The odds depend on the distance from the Holy city and the presence of the shrine.

 

[KMadCandy]

The spontaneous spread is - as it says - spontaneous... Every city that is free of religions has a chance every turn to get a religion spread into it, if it is connected to the Holy city via Trade network. The odds depend on the distance from the Holy city and the presence of the shrine.

actually there's a chance if there's a potential legal connection to the holy city, whether you actually know about it or not. meaning you have the proper techs and stuff (sailing or astro if needed, roads or rivers in the right places, blah blah), but fog of war doesn't matter, and you don't even have to know that the other civ exists. i once met cathy in warlords when my state religion spread to her across the ocean after astro. i had the holy city and she called me up on the religious hotline. it came as quite a surprise, i'd forgotten there was somebody else out there!

open borders with a neighbor civ don't matter, and running merc doesn't matter. you of course implied that when you said "Trade network" and not Trade Routes but i'm the queen of adding bonus potentially useless info sometimes. i don't know whether closed borders and barb cities in the way, if they block the only pathway, would stop it. that does stop normal trade routes (makes the yellow triangle go away). but maybe closed borders like that are exempt from this "potential trade route" definition, like fog of war is? i don't read code, i read about code from the helpful experts .

 

[CharlieM]

Thanks much.

I searched for Strategy Articles about religion, but found none.

I tried and failed being a Religious leader ... so these days, I just sit back and see how things develop in the world of religion. I beeline to military stuff, usually. Then I pick a religion that has spread to me, based on diplomacy and neighbors-with-bad-tempers issues. I imagine many folks use similar strategies.

My specific question above was because I have a peeved Napoleon next door, and I'm trying to get him to share my second-hand Christian faith. He won't.

 

[KMadCandy]

if you're not using Bhruic's unofficial patch to BtS 3.13, you can gift missionaries to other civs, even civs running theocracy. in my experience they'll use the missionaries. they are allowed to spread non-state religion themselves, theocracy only stops the natural spread of religion and other people using missionaries on them. if you don't have open borders you can gift a caravel with a missionary on it. you don't get a refund on the caravel.

in BtS, if you're the one using theocracy, say to try to keep the AP religion out of your empire, be aware that the random events and quests that spread someone's state religion to cities can spread that religion to other people's cities, including cities with a religion already, and including cities that belong to civs running theocracy. and of course they can try using spies to change you out of theocracy. i've never had them use spies to change my civics, but it is a possibility.

 

[Slip de Garcon]

What does the possible failure of your missionary add to the gameplay?

It's just irritating.

 

[Andvare]

What does the possible failure of your missionary add to the gameplay?

It's just irritating.

Balance, with more missionaries required to effectively spread more than one religion, free religion is nerfed and cultural victory is harder to achieve.

 

[qwertz]

Thanks much.

I searched for Strategy Articles about religion, but found none.

You didn't search hard enough
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=237869

 

[CharlieM]

Ah, thanks!

 

[oyzar]

So what are the formula for natural spreading of a religion? can it spread naturally if there already is a religion in the city in question? with a shrine?

 

[oldsaxon]

can it spread naturally if there already is a religion in the city in question?

No, not even with a Shrine.

If (say) Istanbul already has Buddhism, then the only way it's going to get Judaism is from a missionary (well, or a random event).