ZF1 - Zed's Training Day Game

[Zed-F]

ChrTh: Razing cities isn't necessarily a bad idea for lands you want to settle, since then the cities will be 100% ethnically yours to begin with and thus less likely to flip, plus you can choose the city locations for more optimal dotmaps than the AI usually comes up with. It depends on how easily you can afford the settlers and how long they will take to get there -- often it's easier to just capture and heavily garrison while starving them down to size 1 before rebuilding (starve them so only the 1st citizen is not ethnically yours.)

Mystery: Shanghai would be good for a temple if we didn't need it for the Pyramids; as I mentioned, one in Tsingtao is just as good. Dockanda Bay is more needed for settlers and workers right now, and has already got an unmined bonus grassland in radius courtesy of its borders expanding to meet up with Hangchow. Nanking I'm not so worried about; it could build a temple, but what real benefit would it gain? One bonus grassland? Military might be a better call, even if only for barb defense and settler escorts.

 

[ChrTh]

Originally posted by Zed-F
ChrTh: Razing cities isn't necessarily a bad idea for lands you want to settle, since then the cities will be 100% ethnically yours to begin with and thus less likely to flip, plus you can choose the city locations for more optimal dotmaps than the AI usually comes up with. It depends on how easily you can afford the settlers and how long they will take to get there -- often it's easier to just capture and heavily garrison while starving them down to size 1 before rebuilding (starve them so only the 1st citizen is not ethnically yours.)

Oh, I know. My point about the razing was that the extreme N FP spot was in relation to the current cities; if we raze the cities in the area, we may choose slightly different locations for our new cities, resulting in a likely differing spot for the FP.

The forum is back up! [dance]

 

[Padma]

OK, I've started playing my turns. No major faux-pas, yet anyway. I am too tired to finish it with a clear head tonigh, though. And I will be out of town for the weekend, so I won't be able to finish and post til Sunday night or Monday.

Just keeping you guys in the loop.

 

[ChrTh]

Originally posted by Padma
OK, I've started playing my turns. No major faux-pas, yet anyway. I am too tired to finish it with a clear head tonigh, though. And I will be out of town for the weekend, so I won't be able to finish and post til Sunday night or Monday.

Just keeping you guys in the loop.

Hrmmm...

Zed-F, I'm out of town starting Sunday (until Friday)...I was hoping that my turn would come up this weekend before I left..but it looks like that won't happen. Do you want to take my turn in the rotation next, and I should be back before it's my turn again. (I will have internet access, so I'll be able to discuss stuff )

 

[Zed-F]

If Padma doesn't have any objections, then I don't have a problem with you going ahead of him this time. But you'll have to get confirmation from him since he's already started playing that he's ok with it.

That doesn't mean you can't play a "shadow" set of turns, which you can post as the official set if Padma agrees to let you go ahead of him, in which case Padma's turns would be shadow turns.

 

[ChrTh]

Originally posted by Zed-F
If Padma doesn't have any objections, then I don't have a problem with you going ahead of him this time. But you'll have to get confirmation from him since he's already started playing that he's ok with it.

That doesn't mean you can't play a "shadow" set of turns, which you can post as the official set if Padma agrees to let you go ahead of him, in which case Padma's turns would be shadow turns.

I'd rather skip the turn; otherwise there would have only been one turn since my last one. But I don't want it to be a complete skip, otherwise both Mystery13 and Padma would be in alternating turn mode.

 

[Zed-F]

So you're suggesting I play your turn? Hmm, I suppose we could do it that way if necessary, though I'd prefer not to... maybe get someone else to do it instead since I am supposed to be out of the game right now, and since it is possible we might need a sub for more than one of your turns. How about asking for a temporary sub on the main Training Day thread?

 

[Padma]

Sorry about disappearing like that. I had completely forgotten about an out-of-town meeting this weekend.

If I had remembered earlier, I wouldn't have had any problem relinquishing my turn. However, I have completed it, and will post it when I get home from work in about 8 - 9 hrs.

Quick overview: Pyramids started, settlers moving out to expand our borders. Japanese starting to settle the northern edge of the jungle above us. Iroquois seem content to settle west, leaving us the territories we have planned between us.

That should whet your appetites.

 

[Padma]

Preturn: I adjust several cities production. I switch Shanghai to Pyramids, micromanaging the citizens (and Tuscany Bay's) to get it in 75 turns. It will also be growing in 8 turns, so that will go down. Dockonda Bay goes to settler, Nanking to Worker, Xinjian to barracks, Chengdu to worker, Hangchow to galley. (Why does Dockonda Bay have an unhappy citizen? All other size 3 cities have 2 happy, 1 content.)

1) 975 BC: Exploring. Sent one Shanghai worker to Beijing to start on that bonus grassland. Leave the other there to road. (Yes, I realized afterwards that was stupid, especially as the square he is in doesn't even make sense to road at this point, but, too late now.)

2) 950 BC: Exploring. Warrior in far west sees bottom of continent, I think.

3) 925 BC: We learn Code of Laws. After much internal debate, I decide to go straight to Republic. My thinking here is that we will be able to soon trade for mathematics and Literature at last-civ prices. Beijing builds a spearman, and the governor wants to do the Oracle. I tell him to go away, and after some thought, order another spearman. Nanking completes a worker, and I order up another. I set him to help chop the forest, they finish. The worker by Shanghi, I decide to go ahead and build a road toward Chengdu. And now I see/remember I will have a worker built there in 2 turns, so HE can go irrigate the floodplains.

4) 900 BC: A barb warrior attacks our warrior by the gems. We defeat him easily.

5) 875 BC: Canton completes a settler, and I micromanage the citizenry and set for a worker. It will reach a pop of 3 and a worker both in 5 turns. Barracks complete ing Xinjian, and I start a spearman. Chengdu completes one worker and I start another. Canton settler heads toward gems and the purple dot. Everyone we know knows mathematics, so I shop around to see what the best deal is. Hiawatha will let us have it for 26 gold + territory map, so I say yes. (He would have gone for WM + 1gold, but I'm not ready to sell that map, yet.) Dockonda Bay has increased to size 4, and will riot next turn, so I drop science to 70% and bump lux to 10% for a couple turns, until the settler is done.

6) 850 BC: The Japanese are building the Oracle.

7) 825 BC: Beijing builds spearman, order another. Dockonda Bay produces settler, order up a worker. We beat a Japanese and an Iro warrior to the Zhou barb encampment north of the gems, so we get the 25 gold for dispersing them. Plus our warrior is promoted to elite. I reduce lux spending to 0 and bump science back to 80%. Still getting 1 gpt.

8) 800 BC: Exploring/working. Shanghai increases to size 4, drops time to Pyramids to 56 turns. And will grow again in 10.

9) 775 BC: Our westernmost warrior disperses a Tartar settlement for 25 gold. No promotion, though. A northern warrior sees and defeats a barb. Micromanage Chengdu so its worker doesn't complete before the pop goes to 2.

10) 750 BC: Northern warrior is attacked by a barb horseman, loses a HP, but gets promoted to vet. Canton completes a worker, I set another settler up. Persions are building the Pyramids. Our newly vet warrior is killed trying to disperse the barb encampment up north.

OK. One settler heading to the purple dot/gems. The other heading west for the yellow or navy dot. (Next player's choice.) There is a barb camp up southeast of our northern warrior. The dotmap is basically Zed-F's, just re-iterated to remind everyone where we are and where we are going. (Plus dot-map practice for me. )

This 'training day' setup is helping my game. I can now spot at least SOME of my weedier moves. Unfortunately, it's usually too late, but I am at least seeing it.

The save: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/ZF1-china-750bc.zip

 

[Padma]

The dotmap:

 

[Zed-F]

Looks mostly good. Good job managing lux tax, and a galley for exploring is probably a good idea. A couple of notes:

- Shanghai is going to grow pretty big while working on those Pyramids. It will need a number of tiles improved to speed up that wonder as much as possible. Remember, we're now racing to see if we can get it! I have no doubt we'll win since this is Regent, but the principle remains... if you're going for a wonder, everything that can be done to speed it up should be done. (Remember, growing the city is one way to speed it up. So don't use entertainers, use lux tax instead!) You should pull some workers back closer to home from our westernmost cities -- workers should always improve core cities in preference to further away cities. One thing that won't help, however, is chopping a forest -- that does not speed up wonders, only regular improvements/units. Chopping near Tsingtao, on the other and, will help the temple there.

- 2nd Spearman out of Beijing: looking at Beijing's size, a settler followed by a spear might be better. Until we have our lux cities settled, we should still be in rapid expansion mode.

- Purchasing tech -- note that getting contact with other civs lowers the cost if those civs have that tech, I can't recall if we have contact with everyone we could get contact with already, but if not we should probably be doing that before we buy up too much tech. We'll probably stop research after Republic so we want to have contact with as many civs as possible by then. Also, we should be at the point where we're ready to trade world maps soon, once we've settled our lux sites.

All this is, of course, assuming you guys are not going for an FP at yellow dot, which seems to be the case since no particular focus seemed to be made on getting that area settled ASAP. That's fine, it means we'll get our (non-early) FP after our first war against the Iros and/or Japan.

 

[Padma]

chopping a forest -- that does not speed up wonders, only regular improvements/units.

I've learned something! I either did not realize this, or had forgotten it.

looking at Beijing's size, a settler followed by a spear might be better.

A very good point.

I can't recall if we have contact with everyone we could get contact with already

I checked the F4 screen, and there is one civ left that we do not know. Nobody else knew them, either, so I am guessing they are off on an island by themselves.

 

[ChrTh]

Well, it looks like we did Option "Z"....let the game slide until ChrTh gets back home

I'm grabbing and playing the game tonight. I'll post either tonight or tomorrow morning (note that I am on EDT).

 

[Padma]

I'm glad you've got it, ChrTh. I was about to post a 'bump' message and ask who was supposed to be taking it.

 

[Mystery13]

I've been out too, ChrTh, so no problem with waiting a bit.

 

[Padma]

ChrTh, that settler up by the gems *might* be on an extended goto. He shouldn't be, but I don't remember if I did that or not. (I'm not home where I can check the game.) If he is, he might be headed to the wrong square. I remember thinking as I made the dotmap: "Damn, why am I sending him THERE?" Just a head's up!

 

[ChrTh]

Originally posted by Padma
ChrTh, that settler up by the gems *might* be on an extended goto. He shouldn't be, but I don't remember if I did that or not. (I'm not home where I can check the game.) If he is, he might be headed to the wrong square. I remember thinking as I made the dotmap: "Damn, why am I sending him THERE?" Just a head's up!

So what's the correct destination, the purple spot on the Dot map?

What do you guys think, Blue or Yellow? I'm planning Blue dot, simply because it's under threat from 2 Civs (whereas Yellow is likely not a location for the Iroquois--yet). I'm going to change Beijing to Settler, and then send that settler to Yellow Dot. If we lose Yellow Dot (always a possibility), that settler should go to Orange Dot, just to lock in our border.

Without looking at the Save, I'm seeing Three Objectives for tonight:

1) Get everybody involved with the Pyramids (no, I don't mean building Caravans )...I'm going to build up Shanghai with Workers. EDIT: To clarify, I'm going to improve the tiles around Shanghai, not have the Workers join Shanghai
2) Go Forth and Multiply: Settle Blue and Purple Dot. If Beijing and/or Canton finish their settlers during my turn, head them up to Yellow Dot first (alternate: Orange Dot) and then Pink Dot, which should discourage settling at Royal Blue Dot.
3) Build up Military: I know we've been laxing on this for a good reason, but with the imminent settling of Blue Dot, we are going to bethisclose to the Japanese. Even if I have to build Warriors and Workers to inflate my total, I think our Goal should be to have at a bare minimum an Average Army compared to the Japanese.

Zed, et al--let me know what you think of my objectives.

 

[Padma]

Originally posted by ChrTh
So what's the correct destination, the purple spot on the Dot map?

The correct destination is the purple dot.

What do you guys think, Blue or Yellow? I'm planning Blue dot, simply because it's under threat from 2 Civs (whereas Yellow is likely not a location for the Iroquois--yet). I'm going to change Beijing to Settler, and then send that settler to Yellow Dot. If we lose Yellow Dot (always a possibility), that settler should go to Orange Dot, just to lock in our border.

I agree with you. Blue first, then yellow.

 

[ChrTh]

Turn 0 -- 750 BC (as the Thunder rolls...)
Change Beijing to Settler...complete in 2 turns
I cancel the Worker chopping wood outside of Shanghai...Shanghai can't use it for the Pyramids, and it'll take him another 5 turns to finish.
I "activate Settler" by Gems just to make sure he's not on GOTO anymore.
Everything else looks fine...so I press ENTER or SPACEBAR

Turn 1 -- 730 BC
Dockonda Bay finishes Worker, I order up Settler.
MMOW/W
Huh...objective 3 has been overridden by the fact that compared to the Japanese, we have a strong army! We're average versus Babylon and England, though.

Turn 2 -- 710 BC
Beijing produces Settler...and it's recommended we begin work on The Oracle. I shoot the Domestic Advisor gangland-style. I'm heading this settler to Yellow Dot (with a Spearman).
I order up Spearman to replace escort.
Xinjian completes Spearman, I order up Worker...then I change my mind and put it back to Spearman (going to send this one to Purple Dot city).
DIAMOND DELTA is built...and Hoo Boy! She's gotta ton of commerce coming out of her city center...but she's losing a lot to corruption. She's going to be a weak-sister for awhile. I order up Barracks, for now (20 turns to build, 20 turns to grow).
I up Science to 90%...this results in a -2 GPT deficit, but it saves us three turns on Republic. I won't let the deficit go below this, though.

Turn 3 -- 690 BC
Warrior defeats Barbarian Horseman without a scratch.
Nanking builds Worker, I order up Barracks.
Chengdu builds Worker, I order up Barracks.
Hangchow finishes Galley, I order up Barracks (see a trend here?).
We disburse an Uzbek Encampment at get 25 gold!
We're down to -1 GPT..Republic in 13.
I check the Foreign Advisor screen...the other guys seem to all have Polytheism...I figure we'll get it once we barter Republic around.

Turn 4 -- 670 BC
MMOW
Blue Dot settler in position...

Turn 5 -- 650 BC
We disburse an Illinois encampment and get 25 Gold!
We're now even money.
Tientsin is founded...I begin building Temple (we're going to need to rush this one, I think...it's close to the Iroquois, plus there's a gap between it and Nanking that could be problematic. I considered changing Nanking to Temple, but that would take 68 turns to also help...instead I change Nanking to Worker...I want to get both Tientsin and the Spices online asap.

Turn 6 -- 630 BC
Beijing finishes Spearman, I order up Settler (after again killing the Domestic Advisor for suggesting Oracle)
Tuskany Bay finishes Temple, I order up Settler (will be done in 10 turns, right when city grows)

Turn 7 -- 610 BC
Xinjian completes Spearman, I order up Temple.
Hangchow completes Barracks, I order up Spearman.
I micromanage Canton so that it doesn't complete Settler until after it grows to Size 4.

Turn 8 -- 590 BC
Shanghai grows to size 5...Pyramids in 39. I get it down to 34, at the cost of Shanghai taking 20 turns instead of 10 to grow (Shanghai is probably going to revolt at 6 anyway)...I reconsider, as both Gems and Incense should be online before then...so I set Shanghai back to 6 in 10/Pyr in 39.

Turn 9 -- 570 BC
Our L33T Warrior dies at the hands of a Barbarian?!? Outrage! I send the other local warrior to deal with it.
Worker on way to Diamond Delta...I know that Conventional Wisdom says Chop Down Jungle First, then build Road...but I think we need to get these Gems on line and get DD hooked up asap, so I'm going to buck conventional wisdom and build a road.
MMOW

Turn 10 -- 550 BC
The Japanese have requested an Audience...hrmmmm...they want to trade World Maps, but they expect me to pay an extra 100 Gold. Instead, I swap Territory Maps and HE gives me 17 Gold.
Dockonda Bay finishes Settler, I order up Barracks. I move the Settler North (see below)
Our Cultural Influence is Expanding (Tuskany Bay)...we now have Horsies!
Tatung is founded at Yellow Dot city. I order up Barracks (next player can change).
We're losing 3 GPT by researching at 90%...but Republic will be due in 5. If you want to drop to 80%, we'll earn 4 GPT and Republic will be available in 6 turns.


Where we stand:
The Settler just built should head to Orange Dot; the Settler due in Beijing next turn should head to Pink Dot (they should arrive at almost the exact same time). The two subsequent settlers should be sent to Royal Blue Dot (although you might want to disperse the Barbarian encampment first), and then to that little promontory at the SE of our nation (by Canton)

We're almost done settling our little patch of land; we may want to settle N of Pink Dot, but unless we find an island nearby, I don't know where else to go--if anywhere (at least until we go through the Iroquois )

I took a look at the Histograph, and we're winning when it comes to Score...Babylon is second--it looks like Babylon is going to be our main competition this game. We're close in Power (I think we're slightly ahead, but it's hard to tell), but they're ahead in Culture.

To be honest, I think we've expanded enough (after the final 4)...we should consolidate our cities with Temples and Troops...and we should Revolt as soon as we get Republic (and trade it around as well, of course ). But that's just my opinion. What do y'all think?

Save game and Pic to follow in next post.

 

[ChrTh]

Our land:

Save file: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/ZF1-china-550bc.zip