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Zulu tough start-What would you do?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by FlyinJohnnyL, Jul 3, 2020.

  1. FlyinJohnnyL

    FlyinJohnnyL You need more workers....

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    I rolled a standard pangea NHNE game with a random leader and ended up with Shaka. Difficulty is Emperor. I appear to be on a peninsula with tundra to the north and ocean to the south, and freakin' Protective Gilgamesh boxing me in. There's not much land to work with. I rarely ask for advice, but I'm a bit stumped as to my next move here, I stopped at T16 once I realized the situation. Obviously I need to attack Gil sooner than later. Chariots? I'm worried it will take too many, I've had bad experience with chariots vs. protective archers. I don't want to wait for elepults (unless that's the right move.)

    What would you do?

    Worker has put two turns into farming the FP to the W of the sheep (I had to wait for AH to finish). Completed the sheep on this turn. Did not want to waste turns trying to get to the wheat yet, especially since it's not wet.
    Spoiler :
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2020
  2. dankok8

    dankok8 Elected World Leader

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    I say go Elepult unless you find nearby Copper in which case you can Axerush him. You're boxed in but not so badly. You can settle a city 1E of Fur to share Wheat, get one city for Rice, one for Crab... Even with 4 or 5 cities, you have more than enough production for Elepult.
     
    FlyinJohnnyL likes this.
  3. Snowbird

    Snowbird Warlord

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    settle 1N of rice (to steal FP from cap, but coast needs to be checked ofcourse). I would definitely tech pottery before BW (honestly, mining does nothing for you either) since if there is no nearby copper, BW does next to nothing.

    Beeline HBR afterwards, get horse with third cap ring, maybe squeeze third city somewhere. Install earlish granaries, chop late, produce bunch of HA, kill Sumeria.
     
  4. Fippy

    Fippy Micro Junkie Queen

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    Agree with pottery, cheap granaries too and 2 easy happy resis close.
    Even if there's copper i would consider Axes a pointless risk against Giggles at this distance, so BW increases production but you already had a quick expansive worker start.
    What you really want here is commerce for HBR, and also for BW before ofc but always ask yourself what will i do with all those hammers.
    If you find no answer like settling good land look at economy techs first.
     
  5. Nogbadthebad

    Nogbadthebad Chieftain

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    It might be worth scouting his cap round to the east to see if he is on a hill- that would make HA rush expensive. If you do HA can you get there before the 60% border pop?

    Take my advice with a pinch of salt, I'm no expert- but I have found gilg to be the most difficult to attack early with his cre/pro and he builds a lot of units. Elepult seems safer bet.
     
  6. sampsa

    sampsa Ghost

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    HBR=win
     
  7. FlyinJohnnyL

    FlyinJohnnyL You need more workers....

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    I'll finally get around to this game tomorrow morning, I got bogged down with it being a holiday weekend here in the U.S. I'm actually pretty inexperienced with Horse Archers, so that seems like the best move just from a "learn it" standpoint. I'll play a few more turns tomorrow and give an update-I haven't done a forum game in a LONG time and I'm long overdue to get past Emperor and to Immortal. Thanks everyone for the input, the advice on current forum games going on have been a big help as well.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2020
  8. Fish Man

    Fish Man Emperor

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    Do an impi rush for the meme value. Or go horse archers if you want the highest chance of winning this game.
     
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  9. Jarno

    Jarno Warlord

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    Not impossible, even on Deity. Requires a metal-deprived neighbour obviously
     
  10. Fish Man

    Fish Man Emperor

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    Didn't say it was impossible. Just implied it was extremely risky, at least compared to HAs.

    Also if you're early enough you can pillage the copper and just stand on it, even if they have that. 2 moves + mobility makes that pretty easy.
     
  11. Jarno

    Jarno Warlord

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    My understatement was lost in the non-verbal communication lacking forumesk environment
     
  12. FlyinJohnnyL

    FlyinJohnnyL You need more workers....

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    I'm struggling with tech order. No matter how I work it, I'm left with either nothing to build (end up building warriors just to delete them), nothing for my workers to do, or getting HAs too late. I've tried a couple of different scenarios. On my current attempt I can achieve 12 HA by T80. That would be from two clear-cut cities. What's considered optimal?
     
  13. sampsa

    sampsa Ghost

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    Only two cities? I'd go at least 3, maybe even 4. You have plenty of :hammers:. Also... what is your tech path? I think you should go for a fast pottery.
     
  14. FlyinJohnnyL

    FlyinJohnnyL You need more workers....

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    My reasoning for only going two cities was that I have no commerce to speak of on this map, not even a freshwater lake. More cities will just slow my tech rate. However, I will try going for early pottery and report back.
     
  15. SnipedSoul

    SnipedSoul Chieftain

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    You have 5 riverside tiles in the capital that can be cottaged, including 2 FP, so pottery should pay for itself very quickly.

    Edit: not to mention that expansive granaries are amazing.
     
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  16. sampsa

    sampsa Ghost

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  17. FlyinJohnnyL

    FlyinJohnnyL You need more workers....

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    I haven't had much time to play. Both of my jobs are busy atm, and I'm trying to study for my FE exam (hopefully it doesn't get cancelled again). Being 40 years old and having to study really sucks.
     

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  18. CGQ

    CGQ Warlord

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    Just played it to the end. I'll post the game in 3 parts:

    Spoiler Part 1: Turn 59 :

    - Early Game
    I went AH first to work the sheep:


    I worked FP with 4-5 turns left. This delayed the worker by 1 turn but I can get AH 1 turn sooner, which allows worker and AH to be out at the same time and I can immediately work sheep:




    I meet Gigi; I tech TW>Pottery. I work the dry wheat, even though it takes worker 2 turns to reach it through forest, I feel +4 :food:+1:hammers: sooner will help me than the 7 turns on a FP farm. I build settler at size 2:


    Met two more AI's as my scout went around Gigi:




    Had worker road to Elephants then build camp. If all times good, I can immediately work on the rice as soon as I settle 2nd city:


    Worker heads to rice. I decide to delay BW considering a HA rush works better and save the trees for HA's and maybe wonders like the Mids. So my tech route will be: AH>TW>Pottery>WR>HBR>Mining>BW>Alpha


    Settled UMGUN turn 30


    I meet Cathy two turns later:


    Settled 3rd city to grab weasels and share corn for happiness and commerce. HBR is about to arrive and I road to horses in the meantime. Will settle 1 NE of horse, meantime I built Library in UMGUN to run early scientists, for early GS to get academy in capital:


    Turn 59 HBR:

     
  19. CGQ

    CGQ Warlord

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    Spoiler Part 2: To Turn 159 :


    HA Rush to Mid Game:

    While I whip up an army, it turns out poor Gigi has no bronze or iron apparently.


    Took his first city in 775 BC:


    Took Gigi's capital in Turn 86. Used loot gold to get to Currency:


    I give Cathy HBR for fishing, Masonry and Mysticism. I can build the Pyramids with Masonry, Trade routes and crabs near me.
    After some negotiations and being slapped a couple times, I finally came to an agreement:


    I trade Cathy WR for Sailing:


    Turn 90 I take Kish:


    GG born on Turn 92:



    Currency arrived in 550 BC. 3rd city 1 turn from going back to happiness:



    Gigi is dead on Turn 94:


    My next goals are to get Pyramids for Rep+CS to help with Tech. Plenty of trees to chop them here:


    I 2-Whip to finish the Pyramids. I give AI my cheap techs for some gold every few turns (50-150 gold), which helped me get to CoL:


    Turn 105, CoL and Pyramids arrive:


    I trade Cathy Alpha for Poly and 70 gold to build some wonders for fail-gold. I have both Marble and stone so MoM and Taj Mahal could be good wonders here. I have a crap-ton of forests too. I'm going to go for Lit so I can Chop the Great Library in Uruk:

    I switch to Caste+HR. I have plenty of production so whipping won't be necessary for the time being. I have plenty of HA's so I'm not worried about Cathy plotting on me.

    Turn 112 I meet Pacal II:


    Cathy came into some gold:


    I get monarchy from Willem for the Wineries. I also begged Cathy and William for some gold about a turn ago:


    I reach music but unfortunately I was beaten to it by 1-2 turns. Still will make good trade bait and I need it for Cuirs. GL is almost complete in Uruk. I can cottage those river tiles and make it a nice cottage city!


    Turns out Cathy was plotting against Pacal. She DOW on him. I asked her for 20 gold and she slaps me in the face again:crazyeye:


    Ouch.



    She begs for lit and I give it to her. My empire is short on workers so I build/chop about 5 more of them. I finish GL in Uruk and build National Epic there. Next GS will be used to bulb EDU. Turn 125 I get Civil Service:


    National Epic is finished in 350 AD. Next GS will be used for double EDU. If I get a GA, I'll start a Gold Age with him, then switch to Pacifism.

    I teched for Philosophy>Nationalism. Uruk pops a GA so I save him for MoM gold age.

    MoM is finished in capital in 580 AD. I start 12 Turn GA:









    Got 2nd GS in Uruk and double-bulbed Education:


    I teched gunpower then compass. Next turn GS will bulb Liberalism. Then I should get Great Merchant in UR to upgrade my HA's to Cuirs:


    Taj Mahal almost finished in Uruk. I will use it for another gold age and switch back to Slavery and whip Cuirs:

     

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  20. CGQ

    CGQ Warlord

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    Spoiler To The End :


    Late Game Rush to Victory:

    I declare on Ottoman around 1050-1060 AD:


    Turn 168 I meet the last AI, Brennus:


    His cities were pretty easy to take, very few losses.

    I got economics first and used the GM to get 1300 gold which, plus the loot from captured cities should get me to rifling!

    1210 AD I take two of his cities, including his capital:










    Sulie capitulates right after:


    Soon thereafter, I attack Brennus and he capitulates after I take about 3 of his cities.
    I give two of them back since he's on the other side of the map, but I keep one that was near me, wedged originally within Sulie's borders.
    I get another GS and use him to bulb ST MTHD. I desperately need communism for state property and I can use a GS and Spy for another Gold Age!
    I got like 500 gold from an AI trade (forgot who) and then upgraded most of my Cuirs to Calvary.


    I bulb SM then tech it for two turns.

    Hopefully I can get Communism soon. Next target: William.


    From here the game was pretty straight-forward. A tad late, but I finished Oxford in capital in 1530 AD to help get me to Physics sooner. I can start one more Gold Age with the free GS + Spy from Communism.


    My research is costing me too much and so far only Cathy has a shot at beating me to Physics. I whip about 1-2 Calvary in nearly every city (that's a total of 20-25 more Calvary!) then DOW on Cathy to finally cap her and get Physics with loot gold. After whipping Calvary I set most of my cities to wealth which helped me big time.

    Turn 224, I finally get Physics and start my last Gold Age. I take two of Cathy's cities in 2 turns:


    She finally gets rifleman but my level 3-5 Cuirs just crush them. Soon she capitulates. I plan on going after Maya but then I checked Victory screen and saw I reached domination victory. Next turn, the game is over and I win. My earliest victory ever! Even though it was only Emperor, I think I played it pretty good.
    Score: 173,779.

    Interesting Notes:

    - Sorry I forgot to change my name from Adam:crazyeye:
    - I could've won a few turns sooner (Around 1570 AD) because Cathy could've capped earlier. But strangely after I took one more of her cities, she wouldn't capitulate until I took 2 more of her cities. I only wanted more cities to control but obviously if I knew the game was won as soon as she capped I would've accepted that offer then:lol:
    - I stayed in Rep the entire game, then at the end switched to Universal Suffrage to pay for Physics blimps. I intended to use those to invade Pacal II but again I didn't check the victory screen. Makes me wonder, how the hell does one get conquest without getting domination first? How is it possible?
    - Building a library with early writing and running scientists early helped greatly. 50+ BPT before 1200. Rep people helped keep my BPT at nearly 200 before 1 AD.
    - I know mistakes were made but I learned a fair amount. I didn't reload this time whenever RNG screwed me over, only replayed the first 100 turns about 3 times to learn the optimal strategy. (Like delaying BW which worked better for me in this case) The only reloads was when I mis-clicked or started gold age before finishing MoM. Little mistakes that I will try not to make again next games.
    - Cuirs are really freaking powerful!
    - A year ago, I couldn't even win on Chieftain or settler.
     

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