1205 AD on GEM
- Thread starter Traiano
- Start date
Traiano
Warlord
Hi folk,
I am back and have been implementing quite a few of the changes suggested by you all.
Mainly:
- More room between cities (especially in the Balkans around Thessalonica)
- Kingdom of Ethiopia has Christian Orthodoxy as religion, rather than Catholicism.
- 1 extra technology for each civ, as the scenario was quite backward.
- Improved economies of all civs adding a few markets and grocers.
- Removed Dali Kingdom and included Minor Nations and Ottoman Empire.
I understand the Ottomans didnt become a major political power until 1296 AD, however in 1227 AD - after helping the Seljuks against the Empire of Nicaea -they gained their first possession in Anatolia, the town of Sogut.
They seem to be a nice add as in the game I play tested they do take over Turkey and grow nicely.
- However, most importantly, the current problem is that I have not yet been able to upgrade the Mod to BTS 3.19. Since I installed the new patch I cant load the mod, obviously... something in the XML files still eludes me.
I hope to make a breakthrough...
Any advice is appreciated!
I am back and have been implementing quite a few of the changes suggested by you all.
Mainly:
- More room between cities (especially in the Balkans around Thessalonica)
- Kingdom of Ethiopia has Christian Orthodoxy as religion, rather than Catholicism.
- 1 extra technology for each civ, as the scenario was quite backward.
- Improved economies of all civs adding a few markets and grocers.
- Removed Dali Kingdom and included Minor Nations and Ottoman Empire.
I understand the Ottomans didnt become a major political power until 1296 AD, however in 1227 AD - after helping the Seljuks against the Empire of Nicaea -they gained their first possession in Anatolia, the town of Sogut.
They seem to be a nice add as in the game I play tested they do take over Turkey and grow nicely.
- However, most importantly, the current problem is that I have not yet been able to upgrade the Mod to BTS 3.19. Since I installed the new patch I cant load the mod, obviously... something in the XML files still eludes me.
I hope to make a breakthrough...
Any advice is appreciated!
kochman
Deity
- Joined
- Jun 8, 2009
- Messages
- 10,818
Well, you know the painful way to do this...
You gotta compare, line by line, the XML with a mod for 3.19 that does work. As painful as that is.
Traiano
Warlord
I uploaded version 5.0. Sadly it is still for BTS 3.17.
The new version has 6 new leaderheads (Heraclius, Afonso Henriques, Enrico Dandolo, Kuchlug, Llywelyn and Michael) 4 new civilizations (added in place of 3 old ones). The map has been upscaled in Anatolia. For a list of changes please check the first post of this thread, where I updated also the difficulty coefficient list, as some civs gained new cities.
Beside updating to 3.19 Bts - that is my priority - I'm also waiting on J_ to see if he can improve his SpawnaCiv code. If he manages I will use it in the mod to spawn the Ottoman civ during the game, around 1300 AD.
The new version has 6 new leaderheads (Heraclius, Afonso Henriques, Enrico Dandolo, Kuchlug, Llywelyn and Michael) 4 new civilizations (added in place of 3 old ones). The map has been upscaled in Anatolia. For a list of changes please check the first post of this thread, where I updated also the difficulty coefficient list, as some civs gained new cities.
Beside updating to 3.19 Bts - that is my priority - I'm also waiting on J_ to see if he can improve his SpawnaCiv code. If he manages I will use it in the mod to spawn the Ottoman civ during the game, around 1300 AD.
Well, a victory, a hollow victory, but a victory nonetheless. I'm STILL awaiting the update, and I'm as patient as ever, knowing that my waiting will just make playing the senario even sweeter.
Nice! Spawning the Ottomans! That would deffinatly be a nasty surprise to any Byzantine player who's let his guard down in his central area, now wouldn't it?
Nice! Spawning the Ottomans! That would deffinatly be a nasty surprise to any Byzantine player who's let his guard down in his central area, now wouldn't it?
Traiano
Warlord
I believe I found the way to complete the update to 3.19 Patch.
Currently I'm trying to fix a minor conflict with some xml files and should be able to upload the 3.19 version of the mod later today.
Also, the new dll is for 50 civ, therefore I can possibly re-add 2 civs among, Dali Kingdom (China), Native Americans and Swahili City-States.
Traiano
Warlord
Version 5.0 for BTS 3.19 has been uploaded!
The DLL was for only 48 civs, not 50, therefore I had to make some choices (included The Teutonic Order civ as the last one).
For those less interested in focusing in Europe during the Middle Ages, and still willing to play with Native Americans, Srivijaya, Swahili City States or Kingdom of Dali, those civs are still available in version 4.2 WBS.
Both WBS are included (version 5.0 and 4.2 of Clash), just load the one you prefer. The 4.2 world is slightly backward, tech-wise and economy-wise as all cities are smaller.
Last but not least, I havent play tested the last version, therefore any feedback is very welcome, especially if you find out that some civ is way too strong. I tried my best to avoid that one civ - like China in that great scenario that is Gem 1500 AD - is always at the top of each game.
Personally I think that including Minor Nations provided a great improvement.
Ah, yes...and of course many new leaderheads that, I can proudly say, are, at last, all medieval ones!
The DLL was for only 48 civs, not 50, therefore I had to make some choices (included The Teutonic Order civ as the last one).
For those less interested in focusing in Europe during the Middle Ages, and still willing to play with Native Americans, Srivijaya, Swahili City States or Kingdom of Dali, those civs are still available in version 4.2 WBS.
Both WBS are included (version 5.0 and 4.2 of Clash), just load the one you prefer. The 4.2 world is slightly backward, tech-wise and economy-wise as all cities are smaller.
Last but not least, I havent play tested the last version, therefore any feedback is very welcome, especially if you find out that some civ is way too strong. I tried my best to avoid that one civ - like China in that great scenario that is Gem 1500 AD - is always at the top of each game.
Personally I think that including Minor Nations provided a great improvement.
Ah, yes...and of course many new leaderheads that, I can proudly say, are, at last, all medieval ones!
Traiano
Warlord
No, I just added the Lh (Nevskiy, extracted from Amra) and a civ slot, but not a new unique civ with its own traits, UU etc. I might start to incorporate new civs and units now that I updated to BTS3.19. In fact I did notice all the extra civ that you have created and uploaded.
Norman Kingdom of Sicily isnt there because the House Hohenstaufen received those possessions as a fief at the end of 12th century. Initially I included the Normans in one of the first versions of Clash, but after a thorough historical research I gave those territories to the House of Hohenstaufen.
kochman
Deity
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I figured as much. While they were around, they were a powerhouse... but hereditary rule being what it is... they went the way of the dodo bird. And sicily traded on set of rulers for another, yet again... beginning a painful several centuries for my favorite island.
The TO civ is pretty fully fleshed out... I haven't played it myself, but I have played against them... Hermann von Salza is one tough bastard! He generally does pretty well as an AI... I think I tooled him on Alexander the Great for his AI traits, just with more zealousness.
Alright, sorry for the delay, but I forgot I had an assignment last night.
I started a game as the Teutonic Order, and have a tiny suggestion: Give them Currency. I noticed as soon as I started that the TO was in debt, not a lot (only -28) but enough to stil be in debt by the time I reduced my research to zero. So I gave them currency, and I started to get better. I captured the three cities in the Baltics, and almost immediatly lost Acre. Thus, I now have all but one city (Königsberg) out of Anarchy, and but three cities. However, I'm planning an invasion of Poland and the Welf Dynasty with the units left over from the conquests of Old Prussia.
I haven't really heard of any other events. Oh, and also add the Holy Cities for Catholiciam and Orthodox, which aren't in the game so far. Other than that, great job! So I assume you're back for good?
I started a game as the Teutonic Order, and have a tiny suggestion: Give them Currency. I noticed as soon as I started that the TO was in debt, not a lot (only -28) but enough to stil be in debt by the time I reduced my research to zero. So I gave them currency, and I started to get better. I captured the three cities in the Baltics, and almost immediatly lost Acre. Thus, I now have all but one city (Königsberg) out of Anarchy, and but three cities. However, I'm planning an invasion of Poland and the Welf Dynasty with the units left over from the conquests of Old Prussia.
I haven't really heard of any other events. Oh, and also add the Holy Cities for Catholiciam and Orthodox, which aren't in the game so far. Other than that, great job! So I assume you're back for good?
Traiano
Warlord
Thanks for spotting the holy cities bug!
It is sooo annoying.
Every time I update the holy cities they get unchecked as the holy ones. I have no clue to why...
Anyway I fixed Rome, Jerusalem and Constantinople and I'm re-uploading the fixed Mod in 20 min.
The Teutonic Knights now have currency in place of another tech. In that regards I'm glad to hear they lose Acre and expand in Prussia, as it historically happened.
I'm back, even though I'm not planning creating a new mod, at least for now. I briefly considered one for 1400 AD but perhaps I'll just try to add new unique civ modpack for a few civs (i.e. the modpacks created by Kochman for Teutonic Knights, Venice etc) and further develop the SpawnaCiv python code to allow the Ottomans to join later in the game.
The latter isnt easy, as right now just one city spawns in the area I want, and I have no way to determine the religion, which civs it starts at war with etc. And all of this are quite important details to make the spawnaciv a very cool asset to this game.
Huzzah! You're back! I'm really glad that you want to implement actual civilizations, that would be definatly sweet! I am also really glad that you're looking into the civ-spawning thing, even thought it's probibly going to take a while. Hopefully, when I play a game as Byzantium, I'll have to be very careful in how I go about planning my empire!
Anyway, a quick update: I've stormed through nothern Poland with reletive ease, much to my surprise. Is there army powerful? I mean, they always surivive war with Rus, but that may just be to an incomptent AI. Either way, they're left with one city, and it sure wont last for long.
Anyway, a quick update: I've stormed through nothern Poland with reletive ease, much to my surprise. Is there army powerful? I mean, they always surivive war with Rus, but that may just be to an incomptent AI. Either way, they're left with one city, and it sure wont last for long.
Traiano
Warlord
Poland's army is ok, while the Teutonic ones is extremely strong. I had to do it because the AI, even at Monarch, is too stupid and doesnt quickly take over the Baltic Cities, as I envisioned. With the Teutonic Knights you have a powerful army, but crappy cities, as the 3 you can conquer with ease are barbarian cities and Acre is hard to defend against Saladin. Unless the Crusade of the other civs helps relieve the pressure.
FYI, Rus arent weak at all, but they are facing enemies on every side therefore they cant focus on Poland. In fact the Rus start at war with Sweden (that is at war with Denmark), Poland, Teutonic Knights, and the Mongols. That is a lot of odds against them.
The Mongols in particular are painful as they have a lot of units raiding the Cuman lands to the south, Georgia and even eastern Anatolia against Seljuks and Kwarezmia.
Overall if you play any civ among Kwarezmia, XiXia, Cumans, Rus or Kara-Khitai, you would have to face quite large mongols hordes at game start. I noticed though that according to where they are successfull in their invasion, the Mongol AI, changes and adapt its strategy (i.e. if it easily penetrates into XiXia that might help to relieve the pressure on Kwarezmia).
Anyway, the new updated version with fixed Holy Cities is up.
kochman
Deity
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- Jun 8, 2009
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So, I played this last night for a while. Couldn't get to far because the large number of civs and my wife's slow laptop didn't mesh well together.
I played with Hohenstaufen. I easily captured Aachen, Bremen & Stettin, whipping catapults to lower my casualty rates. I then took Rome, as any good Barbarossa should! I was going to move onto the Ottokars next probably, despite our good relationship... just to have some breathing room for my cities.
Because of the number of cities in the small area, one you capture a city, it is practically doomed to starvation and stagnation, because the other cultures will overpower it. Example, I took Stettin... and it never had access to more than its city tile only. This is dooming it... I couldn't even build a theatre short of spending dozens of decades on it...
Anyhow, my crusade in Egypt went the same way as the real one went... failure. It brings up the question, because there really is no chance of winning it, why even do it? But I understand this is a historical thing.
Saladin made vassals of the TO! This was bad news... and obviously unrealistic. They took Acre... that should be it... Vassalizing a nation that is in N. Europe based on the loss of one city...
Constantinople was regained quickly.
I don't really get who the "Latin Empire" is supposed to be, based on the Baldwin, I am going to guess it is the outcast Latin Kingdom of Jerusalem? But you have the TO in the Holy Land... so I didn't get it. I mean, the Latins that took over Constantinople were led by Venice... so why not be a part of Venice, especially since they lose Constantinople very quickly anyhow?
Some of the city choices were great (Hohenstaufen cities for example), others kind of odd I thought... Targoviste instead of Bucharest? Bucharest had pretty much been recognized as the seat of power by then, not to mention, neither Targoviste nor Constanta were Bulgarian at any point in history of which I am aware. I would add the Romanians in for those two cities, or make them minor nations, because Bulgaria... not so much.
Overall, excellent work!
It has inspired me to consider working on a Europe map (like the Charlemagne one) of the same period perhaps... Completely eurocentric.
But, I don't know
I played with Hohenstaufen. I easily captured Aachen, Bremen & Stettin, whipping catapults to lower my casualty rates. I then took Rome, as any good Barbarossa should! I was going to move onto the Ottokars next probably, despite our good relationship... just to have some breathing room for my cities.
Because of the number of cities in the small area, one you capture a city, it is practically doomed to starvation and stagnation, because the other cultures will overpower it. Example, I took Stettin... and it never had access to more than its city tile only. This is dooming it... I couldn't even build a theatre short of spending dozens of decades on it...
Anyhow, my crusade in Egypt went the same way as the real one went... failure. It brings up the question, because there really is no chance of winning it, why even do it? But I understand this is a historical thing.
Saladin made vassals of the TO! This was bad news... and obviously unrealistic. They took Acre... that should be it... Vassalizing a nation that is in N. Europe based on the loss of one city...
Constantinople was regained quickly.
I don't really get who the "Latin Empire" is supposed to be, based on the Baldwin, I am going to guess it is the outcast Latin Kingdom of Jerusalem? But you have the TO in the Holy Land... so I didn't get it. I mean, the Latins that took over Constantinople were led by Venice... so why not be a part of Venice, especially since they lose Constantinople very quickly anyhow?
Some of the city choices were great (Hohenstaufen cities for example), others kind of odd I thought... Targoviste instead of Bucharest? Bucharest had pretty much been recognized as the seat of power by then, not to mention, neither Targoviste nor Constanta were Bulgarian at any point in history of which I am aware. I would add the Romanians in for those two cities, or make them minor nations, because Bulgaria... not so much.
Overall, excellent work!
It has inspired me to consider working on a Europe map (like the Charlemagne one) of the same period perhaps... Completely eurocentric.
But, I don't know
Traiano
Warlord
Thanks a lot for the feedback!
When I first started playing on GEM (the almighty 1500 AD scenario created by Kai) I was overwhelmed as well by the cultural borders (playing as Venice). It is a constant threat that I wasnt used to, despite being a civ veteran. Later I got used to it and learned how to cope with it. I bet you will too.
My advice: contrary to others GEM scenarios here you are allowed to do one thing.
RAZE CITIES.
Re: the Latin Empire. It did exist. It didnt last long! Check it out (Enrico Dandolo refused the offer of becoming the Emperor of the Latin Empire):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_empire
Re: Bulgarian cities. I'd love to add Bucharest but it wasnt founded for at least other 200 years. I should probably rename Targoviste as Tarnovo though, that at the time was a larger city. The problem is that it was also the capital of the Bulgarian Empire, and if I give Tarnovo the palace, then the cultural development might crush Brasov too quickly.
Constanta was instead part of the Bulgarian Empire. In theory I could rename it Varna (see the Varna Crusade in 1444 AD) even though Varna was more south, closer to Constantinople (and I really dont want to move any city closer to Constantinople).
The crusade can succeed, to some extent (I have seen Damietta taken. All depends on which difficulty level you play at). I also managed to take Alexandria playing as France. One thing the crusade gets accomplished for sure: it damages Saladin's cities so that he has to rebuild before storming north.
With regards to the Teutonic Knights vassalized by Saladin.
What can I say? c'est la vie.
That's the beauty of the game
Anyway, very glad you enjoyed the game and thanks again for your suggestions.
