Sydney Posada
Warlord
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2010
- Messages
- 112
So after my first go-around with an Emperor / Marathon game, I decided to try another with a Large Map, Pangaea, and 18 civs. It’s AMAZING! I can’t believe I’ve never tried these settings before.
The diplomacy is a massive twisted ball of yarn that is impossible to completely manipulate to your advantage; someone who is able to attack you WILL be pissed off at you no matter what you do.
I started off near the Hindu block of Joao, Shaka, and Pacal, who was closest. I became Hindu as well to appease Shaka and Joao while I rushed Pacal with Axes (I’m Kublai Khan). It went pretty well, but then my neighbors to the other side (Charlemagne and a bit further Justinian) became Buddhist, and were starting to get pissy with me. But then Charlemagne declares on one of the many Jews instead, and brings in Justinian as a war ally. But then one of the Jews ALSO brings in a war ally! And so on and so forth.
That sounds OK until you realize that I keep getting spammed by Stop Trading and Declare War requests, and keep pissing people off no matter what I do. One safe bet was to declare on Isabella, who was half the world away, the only Confucian in the supercontinent and despised by practically everyone. I must have declared war on her 5-6 times over the course of the game, always at the behest of someone else.
I went after Joao with Keshiks to eliminate that flank (he borders the western ocean), but of course I get a TON of You Declared On Our Friend penalties, and didn’t even manage to destroy him. Apparently he’d settled on some piddly little islands off the main supercontinent, and would remain a 4-city pest for the rest of the game. A couple of distant powers declared on me, too, for some reason, but I never saw their stacks because I think they didn’t have Open Borders with one of the civs required to reach me!
Meanwhile war declarations are happening all over the place. Alexander, Tokugawa, Montezuma, Ragnar, and Shaka are all in pretty much constant states of war, and frequently trying to drag me down with them as well. I pissed off Shaka enough with my refusals so that he was Furious with me, even though we shared the same religion! I went after him next, and again thought I would wipe him out quickly with Keshik blitz… but then it turns out he’d taken 3 Greek cities half the world away, as well as one of the islands near Joao. So he has this crazy split empire with Close Borders tensions with like 2/3rd of the world.
At this point Huayna Capac (below Shaka) the Jew declares on me while I’m a bit unprepared, and brings in 2 distant allies against me. In turn I bring in De Gaulle against one of those allies, while I try to take out Huayna as fast as I can. I finally got Feudalism and was happy to just vassalize him, also because I needed a decent trading partner who’d have to trade with me (did I mention that I had NO ONE at Friendly at this point, because I couldn’t get anyone to convert one of my cities to Judaism, which was adopted by 80% of the world?). I think only the brothers-in-arms bonuses against Isabella were the only thing keeping me alive at that point, as it made most of the Jews tolerate me.
Vassalizing Huayna of course led Charlemagne to hate me, because Huayna was his worst enemy. He declared on me soon after and was pretty damned close to just rolling through my not-super-defended border cities. I barely managed to take my Huayna-killing stack and move them to that border, fighting off the assault, taking one city, and suing for peace. At this point I decide to convert to Buddhism to gain points with Charlemagne and Justinian, who was quickly becoming a world power (he’d just vassalized Bismarck). I wanted to become a Jew, but just like in real life, the Jews were not proselytizing (Ragnar had the holy city, and he wasn’t spamming missionaries)!
Of course then De Gaulle (sandwiched in between Huayna and Charlemagne) decides that this is the opportune time to take out Charlie, and does so with stunning efficiency, vassalizing him in short order. And Justinian decides that he wants to be the score leader and declares on Qin Shihuang, the undisputed tech god of the game, even with only 5 cities. That made me happy for a while, since they were #2 and #3 in score, but I was soon distressed to learn that Qin had crap for military and capitulated after 10 turns. Justinian took the lead and was quickly becoming the dominant force of the game, even when he’s only one of two Buddhists on the map (I was finally converted to Judaism during this time)!
Meanwhile Tokugawa declares on me out of the blue, but he was 4 civs away so I didn’t care. I brought De Gaulle against him just to get a diplo bonus, and Toku in turn brought in my former Hindu buddy Hammurabi, who was my neighbor. Fortunately Hammy had not built up his stack, so I blitzkrieged him with my leftover stack and capitulated him. Not so fortunately, De Gaulle was able to capitulate Tokugawa as well!
Having Hammy on my team led to Justinian hating me even more, and he, unsurprisingly, declares on me with the full weight of 3 vassals behind him. Fortunately he did not have a direct border with me, and would have to go through either Hammurabi (my new vassal) or Charlie to get to me. I got Brennus to join in on my side, though, and he kept the Chinese and Greeks at bay. Justy went after Hammurabi, and I just sat there and crossed my fingers hoping that Hammy could hold on long enough while I redirected my military to Justinian’s juicy interior. I found the Byzantine border cities with Charlemagne to have little defense, so I quickly razed two cities, including the Taoist holy city and the Spiral Minaret, and then captured his Buddhist Shrine capitol. Alexander then manages to break free of Justy, and I sue for peace with him. During the war I also barely managed to win Liberalism, with Qin Shihuang about 3 turns away, and get Military Tradition out of it. I would trade it for Gunpowder (I’d directed one of my vassals to research it) and finally have Cuirassiers to stand up to his Cataphracts.
Justy came to take back the capitol, but I used a dirty trick of moving out of the city and then re-attacking it with my City Raider Maces and Trebs. I held on, broke his stack, and was about ready to keep going until the Byzantines were broken. Sadly, I then noticed that De Gaulle was at WHEOOORN with a huge stack building near my borders. My taking Hammy caused De Gaulle to not like me any more, either… Thus, I had to sue for peace with Justy and do the beg for 10 gold trick for 10 turns of peace with the French, because if De Gaulle invaded me then while I was putzing around in Byzantine lands, it’s game over.
Now I’m moving back my forces and preparing for a final war with the French to determine supremacy of the western half of Pangaea, all while Justinian rebuilds from the war and probably gears to take out Brennus, who he’s still at war with. After this next round of warfare, I assume the titanic all-out battle between East and West will finally take place!
It’s been total chaos, and I LOVE IT! I feel that with fewer civs, it's easier to manipulate and thus is much more predictable; here anything can happen.
Is anyone able to consistently manage the diplomacy on 18 civ Pangaea? If so, I’d love to see it!
The diplomacy is a massive twisted ball of yarn that is impossible to completely manipulate to your advantage; someone who is able to attack you WILL be pissed off at you no matter what you do.
I started off near the Hindu block of Joao, Shaka, and Pacal, who was closest. I became Hindu as well to appease Shaka and Joao while I rushed Pacal with Axes (I’m Kublai Khan). It went pretty well, but then my neighbors to the other side (Charlemagne and a bit further Justinian) became Buddhist, and were starting to get pissy with me. But then Charlemagne declares on one of the many Jews instead, and brings in Justinian as a war ally. But then one of the Jews ALSO brings in a war ally! And so on and so forth.
That sounds OK until you realize that I keep getting spammed by Stop Trading and Declare War requests, and keep pissing people off no matter what I do. One safe bet was to declare on Isabella, who was half the world away, the only Confucian in the supercontinent and despised by practically everyone. I must have declared war on her 5-6 times over the course of the game, always at the behest of someone else.
I went after Joao with Keshiks to eliminate that flank (he borders the western ocean), but of course I get a TON of You Declared On Our Friend penalties, and didn’t even manage to destroy him. Apparently he’d settled on some piddly little islands off the main supercontinent, and would remain a 4-city pest for the rest of the game. A couple of distant powers declared on me, too, for some reason, but I never saw their stacks because I think they didn’t have Open Borders with one of the civs required to reach me!
Meanwhile war declarations are happening all over the place. Alexander, Tokugawa, Montezuma, Ragnar, and Shaka are all in pretty much constant states of war, and frequently trying to drag me down with them as well. I pissed off Shaka enough with my refusals so that he was Furious with me, even though we shared the same religion! I went after him next, and again thought I would wipe him out quickly with Keshik blitz… but then it turns out he’d taken 3 Greek cities half the world away, as well as one of the islands near Joao. So he has this crazy split empire with Close Borders tensions with like 2/3rd of the world.
At this point Huayna Capac (below Shaka) the Jew declares on me while I’m a bit unprepared, and brings in 2 distant allies against me. In turn I bring in De Gaulle against one of those allies, while I try to take out Huayna as fast as I can. I finally got Feudalism and was happy to just vassalize him, also because I needed a decent trading partner who’d have to trade with me (did I mention that I had NO ONE at Friendly at this point, because I couldn’t get anyone to convert one of my cities to Judaism, which was adopted by 80% of the world?). I think only the brothers-in-arms bonuses against Isabella were the only thing keeping me alive at that point, as it made most of the Jews tolerate me.
Vassalizing Huayna of course led Charlemagne to hate me, because Huayna was his worst enemy. He declared on me soon after and was pretty damned close to just rolling through my not-super-defended border cities. I barely managed to take my Huayna-killing stack and move them to that border, fighting off the assault, taking one city, and suing for peace. At this point I decide to convert to Buddhism to gain points with Charlemagne and Justinian, who was quickly becoming a world power (he’d just vassalized Bismarck). I wanted to become a Jew, but just like in real life, the Jews were not proselytizing (Ragnar had the holy city, and he wasn’t spamming missionaries)!
Of course then De Gaulle (sandwiched in between Huayna and Charlemagne) decides that this is the opportune time to take out Charlie, and does so with stunning efficiency, vassalizing him in short order. And Justinian decides that he wants to be the score leader and declares on Qin Shihuang, the undisputed tech god of the game, even with only 5 cities. That made me happy for a while, since they were #2 and #3 in score, but I was soon distressed to learn that Qin had crap for military and capitulated after 10 turns. Justinian took the lead and was quickly becoming the dominant force of the game, even when he’s only one of two Buddhists on the map (I was finally converted to Judaism during this time)!
Meanwhile Tokugawa declares on me out of the blue, but he was 4 civs away so I didn’t care. I brought De Gaulle against him just to get a diplo bonus, and Toku in turn brought in my former Hindu buddy Hammurabi, who was my neighbor. Fortunately Hammy had not built up his stack, so I blitzkrieged him with my leftover stack and capitulated him. Not so fortunately, De Gaulle was able to capitulate Tokugawa as well!
Having Hammy on my team led to Justinian hating me even more, and he, unsurprisingly, declares on me with the full weight of 3 vassals behind him. Fortunately he did not have a direct border with me, and would have to go through either Hammurabi (my new vassal) or Charlie to get to me. I got Brennus to join in on my side, though, and he kept the Chinese and Greeks at bay. Justy went after Hammurabi, and I just sat there and crossed my fingers hoping that Hammy could hold on long enough while I redirected my military to Justinian’s juicy interior. I found the Byzantine border cities with Charlemagne to have little defense, so I quickly razed two cities, including the Taoist holy city and the Spiral Minaret, and then captured his Buddhist Shrine capitol. Alexander then manages to break free of Justy, and I sue for peace with him. During the war I also barely managed to win Liberalism, with Qin Shihuang about 3 turns away, and get Military Tradition out of it. I would trade it for Gunpowder (I’d directed one of my vassals to research it) and finally have Cuirassiers to stand up to his Cataphracts.
Justy came to take back the capitol, but I used a dirty trick of moving out of the city and then re-attacking it with my City Raider Maces and Trebs. I held on, broke his stack, and was about ready to keep going until the Byzantines were broken. Sadly, I then noticed that De Gaulle was at WHEOOORN with a huge stack building near my borders. My taking Hammy caused De Gaulle to not like me any more, either… Thus, I had to sue for peace with Justy and do the beg for 10 gold trick for 10 turns of peace with the French, because if De Gaulle invaded me then while I was putzing around in Byzantine lands, it’s game over.
Now I’m moving back my forces and preparing for a final war with the French to determine supremacy of the western half of Pangaea, all while Justinian rebuilds from the war and probably gears to take out Brennus, who he’s still at war with. After this next round of warfare, I assume the titanic all-out battle between East and West will finally take place!
It’s been total chaos, and I LOVE IT! I feel that with fewer civs, it's easier to manipulate and thus is much more predictable; here anything can happen.
Is anyone able to consistently manage the diplomacy on 18 civ Pangaea? If so, I’d love to see it!
from "We influence other civilizations!" was very nice.
