2009 NFL Draft talk thread

[mrt144]

A reach is all relative. You have to find players that fit your system and these were players the Raiders felt fit their system very well. They have a clear outline of the type of player they want and make their draft board accordingly. It's no different from what the Patriots do.

Except the Raiders have a system that is perpetually broken and rarely wins. The Raiders suck, their system sucks, their owner sucks and their fans might suck for not mobbing Al Davis' vehicle as he tries to leave the stadium and giving him some mob justice. Let me ask you, if one of your first two picks every year are DBs why aren't they sticking around?

Merely having a system doesn't make their choices any more logical or good. A person using the Martingale System doesn't make one a better gambler.

 

[mrt144]

God, looking at their drafts, I wan't to curb stomp Al Davis.

2009 - 1/7
2008 - 1/5
2007 - 2/11
2006 - 2/7
2005 - 2/7 - First Two Picks were DBs!!!
2004 - 1/9
2003 - 2/10
2002 - 2/8
2001 - 3/6

16/70 = 22% of picks are defensive backs. The fact they drafted 1 every year has to mean something, nevermind the idiotic defensive back transactions in free agency. This is like a farce Madden team where one tries to corner the DB market to trade for other players.

 

[RedFusion]

That was mistake on my part. They drafted a DB in every draft in the first or second round except for one.

But that isn't true either. Remember last year, while they did take a DB with their second pick, it was a 4th rounder and he was targeted as a return specialist. It hasn't been since 2006 when they got safety Huff in the first as well as in 2005 when they got two corners in Fabian Washington and Stanford Routt. They ended up trading Washington because of the Hall pickup back in 2008, but he was a solid player for them. Routt has been a decent pickup as well starting most of last season as the #2 CB with Asomugha. They haven't selected a strong safety with a high pick in a while.

Except the Raiders have a system that is perpetually broken and rarely wins. The Raiders suck, their system sucks, their owner sucks and their fans might suck for not mobbing Al Davis' vehicle as he tries to leave the stadium and giving him some mob justice. Let me ask you, if one of your first two picks every year are DBs why aren't they sticking around?

Merely having a system doesn't make their choices any more logical or good. A person using the Martingale System doesn't make one a better gambler.

Having a system does allow for logical choices. But of course, the results on the field are the only judge of whether they are good or not and since the Raiders dumped Gruden and his West Coast offense for Davis' Vertical one, it's been an utter disaster. But at the same time, offensively, they just haven't had the personnel (talent) in place to be able to effectively run the offense.

God, looking at their drafts, I wan't to curb stomp Al Davis.

2009 - 1/7
2008 - 1/5
2007 - 2/11
2006 - 2/7
2005 - 2/7 - First Two Picks were DBs!!!
2004 - 1/9
2003 - 2/10
2002 - 2/8
2001 - 3/6

16/70 = 22% of picks are defensive backs. The fact they drafted 1 every year has to mean something, nevermind the idiotic defensive back transactions in free agency. This is like a farce Madden team where one tries to corner the DB market to trade for other players.

If you want to see bad drafting, go look at the first 6 years of Cleveland Browns drafts, it is horrifying. Or even look at the Matt Millen years of the Lions.

 

[Serutan]

Mel Kiper is a joke, and he has the ego of someone who is never wrong. "OMG THEY DRAFTED SOMEONE NOT IN LINE WITH MY DRAFT BOARD? THOSE FOOLS!"

Agreed, but apparently there a lots of suckers out there, since all of his Web
articles are on Insider (i.e. you have to pay to see them).

 

[Azale]

Whenever I want quick draft analysis, I'll check out Scott Wright's website (nfldraftcountdown.com) which is free and not really much different from anything Kiper or McShay has to offer.

 

[mrt144]

But that isn't true either. Remember last year, while they did take a DB with their second pick, it was a 4th rounder and he was targeted as a return specialist. It hasn't been since 2006 when they got safety Huff in the first as well as in 2005 when they got two corners in Fabian Washington and Stanford Routt. They ended up trading Washington because of the Hall pickup back in 2008, but he was a solid player for them. Routt has been a decent pickup as well starting most of last season as the #2 CB with Asomugha. They haven't selected a strong safety with a high pick in a while.

8/9 years they have had a DB as their first or second pick. Stop splitting hairs.

 

[RedFusion]

8/9 years they have had a DB as their first or second pick. Stop splitting hairs.

Actually it's...

years

They didn't select a DB with their first or second pick in both 2007 and 2004.

But keep in mind that DB does comprise 18% of the starting positions, same as the D-line in the 4-3 or LB's in the 3-4. So it is perfectly reasonable to spend a decent amount of picks at that position, in fact, it should be roughly 18%.

 

[mrt144]

Same diff, 8/9 7/9, It isn't perfectly reasonable to have such a rate of attrition.

Also how can anyone who watches football be such an apologist for Al Davis?

 

[RedFusion]

Because the picks of Heyward-Bey and Mitchell were not as bad as everyone is making them out to be! I really wouldn't be shocked at all if Heyward-Bey ends up as the best receiver in from draft.

Just look at the on-the-field performance of their last two drafts and tell me they were that horrendous. Last year they picked up McFadden in the first and he certainly has played well. Tyvon Branch has been a solid special teamer. Chaz Schilens has managed to start a few games (not bad for a 7th round rookie!) and 6th rounder Trevor Scott managed 5 sacks last season. Despite not having a 2nd and 3rd rounder, they did okay in that draft finding good value and contributers.

The year before they managed to snag their starting QB who fits their offense in Russell, and gave him a really good TE in Zach Miller. Mario Henderson has made tremendous strides as a tackle and looks like he might be able to be a book-end LT very soon. Higgins has been a solid reciever and return man for a 3rd rounder. And Michael Bush recovered well from his injury and provides great quality depth at the RB position. Add in 5th rounder Jay Richardson starting at DE and it was another solid draft for them.

 

[Aegis]

The Raiders actually re-hired Art Shell to coach their team a second time.

'Nuff said.

 

[RedFusion]

Art Shell went 54 and 38 during his first stint with the Raiders. That includes 3 trips to the playoffs (with one AFC championship game) and one coach of the year honors. He had one losing season (7-9) and they fired him after his 6th season as coach when they went only 9-7, just missing the playoffs. He was getting the job done the first time and had a good resume for when he was looked at the second time around, so I don't see where the "nuff said" comes in.

 

[mrt144]

Because the picks of Heyward-Bey and Mitchell were not as bad as everyone is making them out to be! I really wouldn't be shocked at all if Heyward-Bey ends up as the best receiver in from draft.

Just look at the on-the-field performance of their last two drafts and tell me they were that horrendous. Last year they picked up McFadden in the first and he certainly has played well. Tyvon Branch has been a solid special teamer. Chaz Schilens has managed to start a few games (not bad for a 7th round rookie!) and 6th rounder Trevor Scott managed 5 sacks last season. Despite not having a 2nd and 3rd rounder, they did okay in that draft finding good value and contributers.

The year before they managed to snag their starting QB who fits their offense in Russell, and gave him a really good TE in Zach Miller. Mario Henderson has made tremendous strides as a tackle and looks like he might be able to be a book-end LT very soon. Higgins has been a solid reciever and return man for a 3rd rounder. And Michael Bush recovered well from his injury and provides great quality depth at the RB position. Add in 5th rounder Jay Richardson starting at DE and it was another solid draft for them.

They managed to snag Russell? He wasn't under any threat of being taken.

 

[RedFusion]

Snag -- to obtain by good fortune.

They obtained by good fortune Russell, a QB with a cannon arm fits well into the type of offense they wanted to run.

My point holds true though.

 

[RedFusion]

If I were you Mrt, I'd be a bit more optimistic about the Raiders chances this season. They've improved their line with the signing of Barnes to play RT and the shifting of Henderson over to Left, as well as having Gallery at LG (and he is really good there) with Samson Satele at C (another good player who should flourish in their zone blocking scheme).

Russell played well at the end of last season and now has Heyward-Bey to go along with Miller as a quality receiving option. In addition they already have a very good stable of backs with DMac, Fargas, and Bush, so it will not be a problem for them to control the clock when they need too.

They certainly need some work on defense, but the offense looks about ready to go for the system they want to put in place (granted they could use a maclin or ginn type reciever, but everything else is there).

Looking at the rest of their division both the Chiefs and Broncos are in transition with new staffs running things. Right now neither have the personnel in place to run the defenses they wish too. The Broncos in particular are in trouble with a 3-4 d-line that is scary bad and a lot of question marks on the second level in a LB core that is not quite suited for the 3-4 either. That's not even mentioning they traded away a franchise QB!

The Chiefs are also in questionable shape. They only have Dwayne Bowe as a sure thing playmaker on offense with Tony Gonzalez gone and Matt Cassel yet to really prove himself as anything more than a one-year wonder and product of the New England system and talent around him. Add in the fact that their defense is almost as messy as the Broncos and it spells a long season for them.

The Raiders could very well be in the playoff hunt this season with 7-9 victories.

 

[holy king]

let's call it divisional title hunt.
getting in and right out of the playoffs in less than a second hardly counts as playoff appearance.

 

[mrt144]

Snag -- to obtain by good fortune.

They obtained by good fortune Russell, a QB with a cannon arm fits well into the type of offense they wanted to run.

My point holds true though.

He held out through training camp. I don't think it was good fortune to pick up a player at that salary who was holding out for a contract and has no other options.

 

[RedFusion]

let's call it divisional title hunt.
getting in and right out of the playoffs in less than a second hardly counts as playoff appearance.

Being in the playoffs is a lot better than picking in the top 10 year after year. Plus, anything can happen come playoff time, just ask the Arizona Cardinals.

He held out through training camp. I don't think it was good fortune to pick up a player at that salary who was holding out for a contract and has no other options.

That's irrelevant. He wasn't going to play much as a rookie anyways. Last season he started to find his grove those last few games.

 

[mrt144]

Being in the playoffs is a lot better than picking in the top 10 year after year. Plus, anything can happen come playoff time, just ask the Arizona Cardinals.



That's irrelevant. He wasn't going to play much as a rookie anyways. Last season he started to find his grove those last few games.

They paid him a huge salary when he had no option, and AND wasn't even going to play that much.

Finding his grove? I suppose he is as big as a cow at this point.

 

[Azale]

mrt, you have every reason to be negative but JaMarcus had an 11-11 game and some other pretty good games with...maybe the worst wide receiving corp I've ever seen. And no real threats at TE or out of the backfield either.

 

[Darkness]

mrt, you have every reason to be negative but JaMarcus had an 11-11 game and some other pretty good games with...maybe the worst wide receiving corp I've ever seen. And no real threats at TE or out of the backfield either.

Totally disagree on the TE. Miller is really good. He had 56 catches for 770-something yards. That's a real threat, IMHO.

I do agree about the receivers though. I wasn't that surprised about the Raiders pick. WR was a big need, and Al Davis looooves speed. Maybe it'll work out.


BTW: I do think Russell would have been much further along in his development had he not held out so long. He started out way behind on his learning curve and he's only now beginning to catch up...