2K Greg's recent posts on the 2K forums

[2K Elizabeth]

About that post from 'liz: You did not really expect that she says anything negative, right ?
She has to say it was ready, there's no other option for them.

I hear this a lot, and it always puts me in a fine pickle of a situation where I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't. You won't ever believe me if I say something positive when you want to hear something negative, now will you?

Anyway, I founded the 2K Games community in 2006 and since then, I've consistently had the mandate where we are always honest. If there came a day when I didn't agree with 2K Games, or they weren't letting me do what I thought was right and fair, I would leave. (Now, I don't expect you to believe *that* either, but them's the breaks, huh? ) Now, this isn't to say we always bring good news, or have every answer everyone wants - but when I was hired, the idea was to create a community where we have an open dialogue, represent you guys, the gamers, and always tell the truth. With the department's expansion and hiring of our community managers, this still applies. And yes, the proverbial upper management is down with this philosophy - in fact it's why they hired me to make this department!

We're not PR. Actually, the community department is a subsection of the web department that reports eventually in to marketing. PR is a different branch and they know how much I crinkle my nose when we get lumped into the same category - our jobs are both important, but they are very different.

Now that you know entirely too much about 2K Games and me, you can continue with your regularly scheduled Civving.

 

[lschnarch]

As for closing threads on the 2K Forums: We are always exploring ways to make the forums a more useful place for people to discuss whatever they want to discuss. We invite all feedback, negative or otherwise. The threads that we were closing a lot last week were the countless "My personal review" threads we were seeing come up several times an hour. The problem is most of these threads were something saying mostly the same things that every other personal review was saying, and it was making it difficult for anyone to find threads that weren't the same thing as most of the others.

It's no different than you find here: When there were countless threads popping up about why this or that civilization is not included in the game, the moderators made the decision to create a single thread for this discussion and closed any new ones that were created. Edit: My mistake; it looks like these types of threads were forbidden completely for a period. It was Steam discussion that was asked to remain in a few main threads.

Well, let's be honest.
Civ0.V is getting Tiger Tank fire at the moment from all sides.

I am pretty sure that without threads being merged and closed, the majority of threads with valuating title would have titles with negative connotation.

Under the assumption that I would be Joe Average who just wants to grab some info about the game, this would immediately give me a first impression that the fanbase is not really happy with that game at the current moment.

Therefore, from a business point of view I pretty well understand that threads "have to be merged" for "clearness".
On the other hand, I have full confidence in any developer to be able to browse a forum and pick the important threads. After all, there isn't much difference in reading 200 postings in one thread (merged for "clearness") or 200 postings in 20 different threads.
One could even say that due to tabbed browsing comparisons would be easier when having more threads... But that's just an idea of mine.

 

[jimkirk]

if they fix the issue how if you give a civ open border they screw you up by standing on precisely the hex where an important resource is or on your roads fix that issue please please pretty please

 

[Louis XXIV]

Greg, I appreciate taking the time to stop by. I hope you have at least a little time to stop by and address concerns that are specifically in front of you when you're here (obviously, trying to find everything is a bit too time consuming on a forum of this size where I guarantee even moderators struggle to read every post). I would point to the stickied issues thread up top as something to pass along, but it has something like 440 replies, so I'm not sure how helpful it is at the moment.

 

[For Nall]

I love how paranoid the Civ community is compared to other communitys "All the reviewers were paid off" "Steam is gonna take away my games and collect data from me" "They are all being forced to say this"

They ignore the fact that these kinds of things rarely ever happen , that steam is often looked upon as one of the greatest things to happen to gamers and that no gaming company has a strict control on their employees opinions or tongue about their product. Seriously, no one fires their workers because they something like "I dont think this came out right either" or "I agree it needs some work". Im not even beginning to touch base with all the conspiracy theorys.

Its most likely a result of gamers whose minds never got out of the 90's.

 

[2K Greg]

Greg, I appreciate taking the time to stop by. I hope you have at least a little time to stop by and address concerns that are specifically in front of you when you're here (obviously, trying to find everything is a bit too time consuming on a forum of this size where I guarantee even moderators struggle to read every post). I would point to the stickied issues thread up top as something to pass along, but it has something like 440 replies, so I'm not sure how helpful it is at the moment.

I definitely have seen that thread and it's been passed on to the developers. Someone cross posted it on the 2K Forums which helped, but I actually had seen that one before then because someone sent it to be directly.

 

[PieceOfMind]

Greg, I appreciate taking the time to stop by. I hope you have at least a little time to stop by and address concerns that are specifically in front of you when you're here (obviously, trying to find everything is a bit too time consuming on a forum of this size where I guarantee even moderators struggle to read every post). I would point to the stickied issues thread up top as something to pass along, but it has something like 440 replies, so I'm not sure how helpful it is at the moment.

I definitely have seen that thread and it's been passed on to the developers. Someone cross posted it on the 2K Forums which helped, but I actually had seen that one before then because someone sent it to be directly.

Keep in mind that most of the issues (in the stickied Civ5 Issues thread) have been consolidated into the first post, in an attempt to make it more useful. There are some issues in the list that could be categorised as "something we don't like about civ5 because it's not civ4" but for the most part the list should help to at least identify a lot of the core issues with the game, even if it means throwing in some fairly minor issues in the mix.

If it would help, we could have moderators here help trim down that thread by removing posts that aren't about criticisms or issues with the game but rather arguments those criticisms, but I'm not sure that's entirely fair on the people debating those points. I think for the most part the thread has managed to stay relatively free of the bickering styled posts that have little constructive value to them, and arguments have managed to stay on the topic.

In any case, the thread, even with its zillions of replies, should (IMO) be treated as an invaluable resource for the developers. If there is only one thread that should be read in its entirety, it is it.

 

[Buccaneer]

Greg/Elizabeth,

I have the perception that the 2K Forums are too much of a dumping ground, particularly when you have a single forum called "Civilization V Support". How can you manage something like that? Compare, if you will, what is set up here at CFC. You have a Bug Report sub-forum and under that, Confirmed Bugs. Also, there is an Ideas forum. I understand that the General Discussion can get crazy (except for the Issues thread) but I personally like the suggestions brought up in the Strategies and Tips forum.

I simply think that the issues that are hard to track at the 2K forums are presented more clearer here. I just hope that what goes on in your company's forums do not prevent you from gathering information and ideas from here on a regular basis.

 

[Collic]

Greg/Elizabeth,

I have the perception that the 2K Forums are too much of a dumping ground, particularly when you have a single forum called "Civilization V Support". How can you manage something like that? Compare, if you will, what is set up here at CFC. You have a Bug Report sub-forum and under that, Confirmed Bugs. Also, there is an Ideas forum. I understand that the General Discussion can get crazy (except for the Issues thread) but I personally like the suggestions brought up in the Strategies and Tips forum.

I simply think that the issues that are hard to track at the 2K forums are presented more clearer here. I just hope that what goes on in your company's forums do not prevent you from gathering information and ideas from here on a regular basis.

I agree. I'm surprised there isn't at least a confirmed bug list sticky in the 2k support forum. Still, we're not privy to what goes on at 2k, for all we know they have an excellent in-house system that organises that kind of information, just not directly using the boards. Or maybe trained forum monkeys. I hope its trained forum monkeys.

 

[2K Elizabeth]

I agree. I'm surprised there isn't at least a confirmed bug list sticky in the 2k support forum. Still, we're not privy to what goes on at 2k, for all we know they have an excellent in-house system that organises that kind of information, just not directly using the boards. Or maybe trained forum monkeys. I hope its trained forum monkeys.

Stop insulting monkeys!

Also, yes, we do have a system in place and several different layers of support - and Greg is an invaluable asset who does a lot for the community both on the forums and behind the scenes. While posts are the most visible part of his job, it's just barely scratching the surface.

 

[V. Soma]

Oh, I am glad that this thread finally sees the two 2K persons here alive

Umm, I will still continue to bring some update of Greg's posts from 2K forums, OK?

 

[Thoughtful Thug]

And finally, regarding not posting here on CFC: Having more of a presence here is something I would like to do eventually. However, I am only one man and right now just monitoring and getting info from the 2K Forums is more than a full time job. I quite simply don't have enough time to monitor multiple forums right now, and since the 2K Forums are our primary point of communication with the community, that's where my attention must lie. If you want to reach me directly, I always invite you to email me at 2KGreg@2KGames.com.

I think this is where I think you are wrong. In this forum, you don't have to bother with having to spend a substantive time monitoring multiple threads, and fighting through of reading duplicate comments and topics. Here, you can find that most of the moderators here have filter out a good majority of them, and can do that for you while you go ahead and see more contents (feedbacks) that you need for to relay it to your superior.

 

[The_J]

There are more than enough duplicate threads which we can't really filter out, so that's not really true, but most of them are the personal view threads.

I hear this a lot, and it always puts me in a fine pickle of a situation where I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't. You won't ever believe me if I say something positive when you want to hear something negative, now will you?

Anyway, I founded the 2K Games community in 2006 and since then, I've consistently had the mandate where we are always honest. If there came a day when I didn't agree with 2K Games, or they weren't letting me do what I thought was right and fair, I would leave. (Now, I don't expect you to believe *that* either, but them's the breaks, huh? )

entire point taken.
And i still don't believe you .



But i'm sure that everyone tries to do the best in their jobs and that you will inform us about the important things and the devs about the biggest problems, and i'm fine with that .

 

[Guardian_PL]

I want to address a few things that I've seen spark a bit of a discussion. Hopefully I can clear up a thing or two.



The quote you are responding to in this post was in direct response to someone specifically asking me what it's like to deal with people being rude on the forums. It's kind of silly to call that out without context and then tell people that it's just me whining about it, as if I made my own thread to say it. I wasn't calling our community rude; I was saying that rudeness does occasionally occur. We wouldn't need an infraction system and a team of moderators if that wasn't true!


As for closing threads on the 2K Forums: We are always exploring ways to make the forums a more useful place for people to discuss whatever they want to discuss. We invite all feedback, negative or otherwise. The threads that we were closing a lot last week were the countless "My personal review" threads we were seeing come up several times an hour. The problem is most of these threads were something saying mostly the same things that every other personal review was saying, and it was making it difficult for anyone to find threads that weren't the same thing as most of the others.

It's no different than you find here: When there were countless threads popping up about why this or that civilization is not included in the game, the moderators made the decision to create a single thread for this discussion and closed any new ones that were created. Edit: My mistake; it looks like these types of threads were forbidden completely for a period. It was Steam discussion that was asked to remain in a few main threads.

Our developers and producers use our forums to get feedback either directly or by our community team (for Civ, it's me mainly) giving them overviews of what the community is talking about. When the forums become disorganized and impossible to navigate, it is much more difficult and time consuming (and sometimes impossible, depending on the volume of posts) to get that constructive information.


And finally, regarding not posting here on CFC: Having more of a presence here is something I would like to do eventually. However, I am only one man and right now just monitoring and getting info from the 2K Forums is more than a full time job. I quite simply don't have enough time to monitor multiple forums right now, and since the 2K Forums are our primary point of communication with the community, that's where my attention must lie. If you want to reach me directly, I always invite you to email me at 2KGreg@2KGames.com.

Woho!
15 pages in, and they're here!

Anyway, thanks for showing up, mere fact of your presence gives us a tad more confidence that problems we're having with the game will get fixed, so keep up the good work.

...I wonder what prompted you to finally reappear on civfanatics - someone has notified you about angrymoaning people here, you've finally found time or... Dunno, what was it?

 

[tom2050]

The quote you are responding to in this post was in direct response to someone specifically asking me what it's like to deal with people being rude on the forums. It's kind of silly to call that out without context and then tell people that it's just me whining about it, as if I made my own thread to say it. I wasn't calling our community rude; I was saying that rudeness does occasionally occur. We wouldn't need an infraction system and a team of moderators if that wasn't true!

Out of context? Even if someone didn't know the question, you could guess the question from reading your answer...

You said 'It makes the occasional rudeness I have to deal with completely worth it.' Now you say you weren't calling anyone rude... You say again above that rudeness occurs. I'm sure everyone knows that, but for 2K to come out making public statements of rude customers is not a generally good tactic for a business. It doesn't take a Masers of Business to know this.

----
I'll ask you a question similar to the one the other guy did. What's it like dealing with ignorant moronic scumbag fans of Civ on the forums?

Are you going to answer the same way in an official statement "It makes the occasional ignorant moronic scumbag fan of civ I have to deal with completely worth it"?
You see? Just because a forum user uses certain language, doesn't mean, you, as a front-line of the company, should use the same language as the forum member. See, the company rep should leave the part out that involves the ignorant moronic scumbag portion; and keeps 'fans of civ' in.
----

See what it takes to get 2K here? The only reason 2K showed up was in a PR-style to clean up their own 'calling customers rude' statement.

And why do I have to explain this to someone that is in their 30's? 40's?

 

[PieceOfMind]

tom2050 you are never satisfied. At least Greg is being honest. I'm sure if he'd he said that everyone was polite you'd be criticising his dishonesty instead. And let's face it, on the 2K boards and here as well, at least a few people have been pretty rude to the 2K representatives. People always look for someone to blame.

 

[tom2050]

I like what Firaxis is doing with 5, and the hard work they are doing.

tom2050 you are never satisfied.

I'm just letting him know that as a business rep, calling customers rude is a bad way to do business. You disagree? If you are satisfied with 2K making public statements about the rudeness of consumers, so be it; no one really cares. You can agree with him, and I do; but there is a reason companies should not say things of the sort.

At least Greg is being honest.

Sure he's honest. "I wasn't calling our community rude; I was saying that rudeness does occasionally occur." Which, in other words, is calling members (not all) rude.

I'm sure if he'd he said that everyone was polite you'd be criticising his dishonesty instead.

Assumption. Are you Cleo? Do you read minds? Do you know the future? I'll do the same thing as you did... I'm sure if he'd said that members are dumb, you would be clapping your hands with happiness.

And let's face it, on the 2K boards and here as well, at least a few people have been pretty rude to the 2K representatives. People always look for someone to blame.

And like I said (again), we all know people have been rude, but for a business to make statements (twice now) saying that is a bit over the top. Most people would be fired or disciplined for making such statements at their jobs.

2K Greg semi-placed the blame on the 'out of context' (which didn't exist) and the member asking him the question. I will call it out when I see, because the same expectations are held of me at my job, and if I don't follow rules of treating customers well, I will be called out.

You don't need to roll over and defend a company for a statement about the people that keep it in business PieceOfMind. I'm sure 2K Greg won't continue making such statements (although he just repeated the rude thing again), he is a web guy after all, probably not used to doing this type of stuff, dealing with the public.

 

[PieceOfMind]

Perhaps 2K Greg has different expectations placed on him by his employer than you do, tom.

So you are giving advice to him? Do you think he needs your advice?

I don't go out of my way to defend 2K.

And yes, I do read minds. Don't you?

 

[tom2050]

You are implying 2K expectations are that it's okay to call it's customers rude? You are probably right.

What good do you think his statements did for 2K? Nothing good... that is common business sense PoM. If you run any business and call your customers rude or other names, you won't do as well.

It doesn't matter what 2K expectations are, it's 'normal' for businesses to treat their consumers with respect as 1 way to help maximize their success. Obviously it doesn't happen all the time, but as a consumer, things like this should be called out... instead of you ignoring it.

 

[PieceOfMind]

It's nice to see you have 2K's best interest at heart, tom. I know you're only trying to help them, but personally I don't care whether 2K are successful or not in the long run.