2K Greg's recent posts on the 2K forums

[Guardian_PL]

I think he said it live.

Anyway, I think it's rather interesting that Greg and miss Tobey tried so hard to be our "friends" before the release, but then magically stopped coming here when they game was released...

Some people seemed to think that Greg and miss Tobey posted here only because they were such friendly people. A few people were even afraid that the people who were questioning their intetions would make them sad and stop posting here.

In reality, of course, someone at 2k Games said "Hey, Greg and Tobey, there are A LOT of fans on the civfanatics forums as well, head over there and make some advertising". Their only goal is to trick as many people as possible into buying their product. And I'm totally okay with that But sadly, they are very, very bad at it;

You don't call customers rude. And even though it's natural to post less here after a game is release, you simply do not disappear overnight. It looks really bad and shows that you really had no interest in the fans or in discussing the game. You just wanted to make money. This will actually hurt the company in the long run, because when Greg show up to market Civilization VI, people will just be irritated.

Well said.

Yup, the show is over, we can stop that huge effort of making couple additional posts on other forums, who cares about those #### now, when we've drained their wallets?

One would think that 13 pages long thread about 2kGreg would draw his attention, if only to say sth like "oh hey, good job with that thread, maybe sticky it so you'll know what's going on, thanks for saving my time - there's a LOT of stuff to do now, and all the forums are full of people. Take care, I see you soon".

But nope, we're unimportant now, and Greg's friendliness has vanished, like it was never there...

 

[happyturtle]

Do you have a link or the exact quote from Greg? (about the AI learning) I assume it was posted to a forum rather than spoken during the live gameplay, no?

I remember him saying it during the game play in response to a viewer question. Since that was unscripted, it's unlikely to be something directed from on high and more likely to be the kind of anthropomorphising we all do during games when we attribute motives and thoughts to the AI.

Honestly, people, he may be a 2K employee, but he's still a person. Trying to analyse his every word for hidden meaning is rather silly, and I doubt any of us would look perfectly consistent under such scrutiny.

 

[Guardian_PL]

I remember him saying it during the game play in response to a viewer question. Since that was unscripted, it's unlikely to be something directed from on high and more likely to be the kind of anthropomorphising we all do during games when we attribute motives and thoughts to the AI.

Honestly, people, he may be a 2K employee, but he's still a person. Trying to analyse his every word for hidden meaning is rather silly, and I doubt any of us would look perfectly consistent under such scrutiny.

Oh yeah, he totally didn't mean to say that bit about AI learning in a public demo of the game shortly before the release, it was an accident, and any connotation that this game might be awesome is actually our fault - he'd never mean to deceive us!

Slicky, two-faced approach. Only kids are young and pure enough to believe that crap.

 

[PieceOfMind]

I probably have the same instinct as you which is that it was probably just colloquial. He probably didn't mean to imply that the AI "learned" but just talking like a narrative gamer would talk about 'teaching the French a lesson' or what have you.

Yes, that is pretty much exactly what I thought. Something like "yeah, he learnt his lesson!"

The thing is, if the AI acts randomly enough (which frankly it does at the moment), it will occasionally do an unexpected what-appears-to-be-intelligent move.

I think he said it live.

Anyway, I think it's rather interesting that Greg and miss Tobey tried so hard to be our "friends" before the release, but then magically stopped coming here when they game was released...

Some people seemed to think that Greg and miss Tobey posted here only because they were such friendly people. A few people were even afraid that the people who were questioning their intetions would make them sad and stop posting here.

In reality, of course, someone at 2k Games said "Hey, Greg and Tobey, there are A LOT of fans on the civfanatics forums as well, head over there and make some advertising". Their only goal is to trick as many people as possible into buying their product. And I'm totally okay with that But sadly, they are very, very bad at it;

You don't call customers rude. And even though it's natural to post less here after a game is release, you simply do not disappear overnight. It looks really bad and shows that you really had no interest in the fans or in discussing the game. You just wanted to make money. This will actually hurt the company in the long run, because when Greg show up to market Civilization VI, people will just be irritated.

Well said.

Yup, the show is over, we can stop that huge effort of making couple additional posts on other forums, who cares about those #### now, when we've drained their wallets?

One would think that 13 pages long thread about 2kGreg would draw his attention, if only to say sth like "oh hey, good job with that thread, maybe sticky it so you'll know what's going on, thanks for saving my time - there's a LOT of stuff to do now, and all the forums are full of people. Take care, I see you soon".

But nope, we're unimportant now, and Greg's friendliness has vanished, like it was never there...

Honestly you both look like you're looking for sympathy.

It was well understood that 2K Greg and Elizabeth were posting here as representatives of 2K Games. That is why they were required to put "2K" in their usernames. They have no obligation to continue posting here nor did they have any obligation to post here before release.

 

[Louis XXIV]

Speaking of the podcast is anyone now a little dubious about Greg's claim that the French had tried to invade his territory by embarking units across the Persian Gulf, but that they learned not to do it by the time we started viewing the game because he kept destroying them as soon as they landed with his samurai?

Well, I think we interpreted that Napoleon learned not to. What he said was simply that they had previously tried embarking and failed. The reason for that is simple, when you have a choke point, they do embark. I've seen it as well. It usually fails spectacularly, though, as it did with Greg's game. I don't doubt what he said, it seems to fit what I've experienced.

I'll find the quote, he didn't say it live, it was in the post-video discussion. During the live broadcast, people wondered why Napoleon didn't embark and the question wasn't addressed until afterward.

EDIT: Here was his quote:

link

Originally Posted by quintus5 View Post
I wonder why the French can't just cross the sea? I thought they could transform into boats?

They were crossing the sea a lot earlier in the war. However, I was able to ranged attack them when they embarked, which would force them to land wounded, and then my samurai could easily finish them off in open ground.

That was the quote.

 

[Bad Brett]

It was well understood that 2K Greg and Elizabeth were posting here as representatives of 2K Games. That is why they were required to put "2K" in their usernames. They have no obligation to continue posting here nor did they have any obligation to post here before release.

Who am I pretending to be now?

"Hey guys, I just got some juicy information that I'll be happy to share with you guys if you just stay tuned. Civ is my favourite franchise of all times and I'm really excited about how things are turning out."

A post like that is not meant to be informative, it's meant to evoke certain feelings among the customers, feelings like "Oh, Greg is a Civ fan too. He understands us. If he loves the game, it must be good". And while you and I can realise that this is juist marketing strategy, their might still be a lot of people, especially younger people, that actually felt that he was being honest and really cared about making the community happy.

Personally, I don't like the fact that marketing guys are roaming the forums the months before releases to then magically disappear. It felt much better when Soren, the actual desginer, posted here after the release of Civ IV.

 

[happyturtle]

They were crossing the sea a lot earlier in the war. However, I was able to ranged attack them when they embarked, which would force them to land wounded, and then my samurai could easily finish them off in open ground.

Haha... all that bile and conspiracy mongering, and he never even claimed that they 'learned'.

 

[tom2050]

Agreed, they came in with the 'new community manager' title... made a huge thread, a big fuss; then IIRC, mentioned before release, that 2K was going to hit the road and take off. And after hyping up the game so much, it now gets backlash specifically because of the un-true hype. 2K is responsible for alot of the unsatisfaction here. When you up people's expectations, they actually expect alot more.

If they came here and posted constantly for a long time, it is 'decent' to occasionally stop in and leave a few posts here and there (OMG, it takes a whole 30 mins tops). I'm guessing 2K higher-ups told them specifically NOT To Come Here. I am glad they don't though; they probably wish they could ban half the people here and close half the threads.

Sure, they are people too, and like all people; they need to deal with the consumer reactions of their product. Everyone else does... if they don't like it, they can quit their job and go work somewhere else. Instead, Greg is stressed out, can't handle his job (that he is unqualified for) and vents in a polite way calling Civ Fans rude.

I don't understand why anyone would defend a marketing representative, who's skills didn't even consist of marketing, but were web based IIRC. Another dense brainless decision by lovely 2K.

Poor Firaxis, I do feel sorry for these guys having to put up directly with 2K. Firaxis gets 2 thumbs up! They want the game to be great, and will make it great; but must deal with the Take-2 clowns.

 

[PieceOfMind]

EDIT: Here was his quote:

link

Originally Posted by quintus5 View Post
I wonder why the French can't just cross the sea? I thought they could transform into boats?

They were crossing the sea a lot earlier in the war. However, I was able to ranged attack them when they embarked, which would force them to land wounded, and then my samurai could easily finish them off in open ground.

That was the quote.

Wow, so this is a massive case of Chinese Whispers? I was under the impression that he had made a more affirmative statement than that. I think I truly fell for the rumours.

Who am I pretending to be now?

"Hey guys, I just got some juicy information that I'll be happy to share with you guys if you just stay tuned. Civ is my favourite franchise of all times and I'm really excited about how things are turning out."

A post like that is not meant to be informative, it's meant to evoke certain feelings among the customers, feelings like "Oh, Greg is a Civ fan too. He understands us. If he loves the game, it must be good". And while you and I can realise that this is juist marketing strategy, their might still be a lot of people, especially younger people, that actually felt that he was being honest and really cared about making the community happy.

Personally, I don't like the fact that marketing guys are roaming the forums the months before releases to then magically disappear. It felt much better when Soren, the actual desginer, posted here after the release of Civ IV.

I didn't particularly like it either (that marketing was allowed in) but I figured that most people wanted the information and I didn't believe strongly enough about it to make a request to the admins.

If you had a problem with it then, I can only suggest that you should have taken it up with the admins. Some did. Evrett in particular was very vocal and critical of the way in which 2K were allowed to post here. I too regularly reminded people that what was being told to us by 2K and Firaxis was marketing and not to be trusted if it's not verifiable. (e.g. claims from the devs of engine optimised for making use of multi-cores, even up to 12).

In marketing, language is the tool. I'm sure Liz and Greg probably don't want to be labeled as marketers, but unofficially that was obviously what their role was here. I really hope you didn't believe that their posting in a "friendy" manner on this site was anything more than part of their job.

 

[the_lor]

nm......

 

[JLoZeppeli]

Pieceofmind you are right, i can't blame them for their Job. But i can blame Firaxis for lack of communication AFTER release, because they well know that after CI IV one of the columns of their game is the fan and modder's community...

The problem is 2k have the upper hand, as we can see either by Mafia 2 and Bioshock 2 and their community politics...

So as i can't say that CIV is good, to be honest i think is a very good base to develop a game... But it is a base with a poor delivered game right now. Playable for sure, but lacking in so much ways that it can satisfy only who wants a easy victory, or a not so complex game. And the prblem is not that it can't be complex, but the features are so poorly managed end polished, that in the end it appears as it was dumbed down.

So the truth is in the middle, as the Romans used to say.

The game is playable and it is not dumbed down...

But it isn't polished and more features are so poor finished and planned (sure it was the short time to deliver) that it feels dumbed down and can be called a good game for sure....

The work of Firaxis is very tough, because it will take a lot of time to make it better, as if it wasn't released yet... Patching is not a development phase, you can try to fix something, but i think only an expansion, worth of an entire overhaul ov the game, can really put things for good, and the situation is way different now from Civ IV and BTS, so it's only a matter of time to see where Civilization V will go...

 

[Drakarska]

In marketing, language is the tool. I'm sure Liz and Greg probably don't want to be labeled as marketers, but unofficially that was obviously what their role was here. I really hope you didn't believe that their posting in a "friendy" manner on this site was anything more than part of their job.

Nope. As soon as I saw the words 2k [insert name here] Rep, I automatically translated that into PR Jockey. Shame really, I was actually willing to give them the benefit of the doubt, until they started to side-step or half-way answer questions put forth to them. After that, i'm afraid my sarcasm meter pegged in the red and pretty much stayed there.

 

[Louis XXIV]

Haha... all that bile and conspiracy mongering, and he never even claimed that they 'learned'.

Yeah, I'm pretty good at remembering useless info like this. For all I know, I started the idea that they learned their lesson. The original context was that the AI didn't embark in the video and people wondered if they were incapable of embarking.

We started this whole discussion about how the AI was stringing him along after it realized a naval invasion was impossible while it leveled up to Artillery and conquered every other civ. It did those things, but attributing a personality to those actions is probably untrue.

Wow, so this is a massive case of Chinese Whispers? I was under the impression that he had made a more affirmative statement than that. I think I truly fell for the rumours.

If it wasn't for other things, I'd go back and figure out how much of that was my fault. He was either very careful with his words or, more likely, didn't think about the consequences of what the actions of Napoleon meant. Greg doesn't tend to speculate, he tends to report in facts. So it was natural for him to respond to a question of "why didn't Napoleon embark" with "Napoleon did embark." He doesn't elaborate on those things, it was us, desperate for more info, who speculate and extrapolate.

I didn't particularly like it either (that marketing was allowed in) but I figured that most people wanted the information and I didn't believe strongly enough about it to make a request to the admins.

To be fair, their role existed here previously. When C3C came out, there was a producers marketing guy and there was Jesse Smith and they both posted in carefully controlled ways to get publicity for the game. They even got a forum created for C3C when CFC policy at the time was not to divide it. It's a strange situation, but it's not necessarily a negative situation. I kind of view it like reporters depending on the executive branch for information about a war. They want to spin the info and you kinda have to play by their rules to a degree, but that doesn't stop you from being critical. 2K reps are here to ensure positive reactions before the game is released. You can be critical if you want to, but it's probably more harmful than good to be hostile (at least from CFC's perspective). It's better to maintain a good relationship.

 

[Ogrelord]

more sidesteps from 2k forums. It's like watching sailors trying to bail water from a sinking boat while the passengers are rocking it from port side to starboard.

Hi Greg: As a professional, in your opinion, was this game ready to be released?

Thank you.

As Greg's not around, but I'm a professional, I'll chime in!

Do I think the game should have been released? Yep, I do. Were there some issues? Yes - and I think a lot of the feedback we've gotten since release is included in the patch and please keep it coming, because what you guys have given the team really has helped.

Also, if you are having a specific problem, feel free to hit up me or Greg or usa@take2support.com - I've been helping a bunch of people in the past couple weeks with hitches that can be solved with some one-on-one support. I haven't ever seen two computers (that aren't straight out of a box) with the same hardware and software configuration, and sometimes, when that causes a problem, we can fix it without a patch.

For any larger issues, as always, keep sending them in - it helps us.
Reply With Quote

http://forums.2kgames.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1222618&postcount=5

 

[Louis XXIV]

By PC game standards, it was more than ready to be released. I've interacted with enough game developers on a personal level to know that what Firaxis got was standard in this industry. Some places have a luxury of polishing to perfection, but most have games released in a far worse state. The reality is the patching process gives producers a luxury to release before it is polished in order to raise capital to spend on their next project. Frustrations that fans have to deal with are necessary evils that keep the industry competitive.

Of course, that's not the answer they can give. They have to respond with answers that are technically true, but are misleading. The game is stable for most systems (if it weren't, this would be a problem that would prevent the game from being released). Plenty of problems can be attributed to different systems (although some of these were tested and I'm willing to bet time would address others). From an isolated game developers' feedback, it's hard to tell if their ideas are the majority's ideas or not. They respond to overwhelming feedback on a feature as a necessity (although it's probably true that plenty of people internally would say the same thing).

I'm hoping that's being fair to both sides of the issue. The fact remains that the game industry is a time sensitive industry. The optimal amount of bugs on launch day is not zero. But it is true that, if these constraints did not exist, the game could be polished much better and there would be fewer irate customers. I'm sure that, if Greg and Liz read my post, they'd silently agree, but publicly deny it. Likewise, I'm sure an irate customer doesn't want to hear this either.

 

[Yard Waste]

JUst get the patch out-and hopefully the game won't go the way of Bioshock 2 as in then don't have the talent or desire to fix/patch and add DLC.

 

[The_J]

About that post from 'liz: You did not really expect that she says anything negative, right ?
She has to say it was ready, there's no other option for them.

 

[Louis XXIV]

Yeah, I don't think it's really fair to blame marketing people for speaking like marketing people.

 

[The_J]

Let's say it's not fair to blame people for doing the job they are paid for, in the way the employer wants them to do it .

 

[2K Greg]

I want to address a few things that I've seen spark a bit of a discussion. Hopefully I can clear up a thing or two.

Oh poor 2K Greg! Has it so tough! Maybe we should all chip in and buy Greggy a box of tissues for his sniffles. What a bunch of rude idiots 2K Greg has to 'deal with'. I mean, 2K lies and hypes the game up on Certain Things (not everything), and then he has to deal with disappointed gamers that spent their hard-earned money, and may feel a bit let down by the game.

The quote you are responding to in this post was in direct response to someone specifically asking me what it's like to deal with people being rude on the forums. It's kind of silly to call that out without context and then tell people that it's just me whining about it, as if I made my own thread to say it. I wasn't calling our community rude; I was saying that rudeness does occasionally occur. We wouldn't need an infraction system and a team of moderators if that wasn't true!


As for closing threads on the 2K Forums: We are always exploring ways to make the forums a more useful place for people to discuss whatever they want to discuss. We invite all feedback, negative or otherwise. The threads that we were closing a lot last week were the countless "My personal review" threads we were seeing come up several times an hour. The problem is most of these threads were something saying mostly the same things that every other personal review was saying, and it was making it difficult for anyone to find threads that weren't the same thing as most of the others.

It's no different than you find here: When there were countless threads popping up about why this or that civilization is not included in the game, the moderators made the decision to create a single thread for this discussion and closed any new ones that were created. Edit: My mistake; it looks like these types of threads were forbidden completely for a period. It was Steam discussion that was asked to remain in a few main threads.

Our developers and producers use our forums to get feedback either directly or by our community team (for Civ, it's me mainly) giving them overviews of what the community is talking about. When the forums become disorganized and impossible to navigate, it is much more difficult and time consuming (and sometimes impossible, depending on the volume of posts) to get that constructive information.


And finally, regarding not posting here on CFC: Having more of a presence here is something I would like to do eventually. However, I am only one man and right now just monitoring and getting info from the 2K Forums is more than a full time job. I quite simply don't have enough time to monitor multiple forums right now, and since the 2K Forums are our primary point of communication with the community, that's where my attention must lie. If you want to reach me directly, I always invite you to email me at 2KGreg@2KGames.com.