This thread has gone somewhat off topic huh? Well nm, its still an interesting political discussion.
Just a brief note in response to Music_theory's comments (because, though I mean no offence, I find them, in my personal opinion, a dangerous US view of things):
1) Your comments on the European economies not matching America's because of our support for state welfare systems is frankly ridiculous, the USA's economy is superior to European country's because your population is 5 times the size us here in the UK or in France or Italy and 3 times that of Germany. Also, your country's economic dominance of world affairs began due to the European bankcrupcy and massive international debt that followed World War I and was magnified by World War II. Obviously European nation's GDP will not match the USA's, for these reasons, plus the fact that simply due to the perceptive realisation that the USA forms the centre of the world economy, the vast majority of world bussiness centres its activites in your nation. Of course this will change in the future, China and Inida most of all will eventually overtake the US in GDP, they are both nations full of natural resources, will over a billion population each, four times the US' 270 million. The same is true if Europe eventually unifies to be a stronger Federal political bloc, already Europe has a combined GDP only 15% or so less than the USA's. But an uninformed (and I do not mean un-educated, I don't doubt your education, but we live in Europe and your comments on the European economy are simply not true) opinion that social welfare systems cripple state economies and that socialism and social democracy will always be inferior and are stupid compared to pure capitalism is dangerous and, without getting heated, I imagine quite insulting to all those people who strongly support socialism and firmly believe, with good reason, that Capitalism is not the best system possible, or even the best system around for a nation's economy.
2) The whole Capitalism vs. Communism/Socialism arguement strikes me as an essentially misguided one. Firstly as was mentioned earlier, politics is not a linear scale liek that, better to use that of a 2 dimensional circle or compass, between Left and Rightist economics and Authoritatian and Liberal Government. The anger most people level at Communist states is the same as that against Fascist states - its the extreme Authoritarianism rather than the extreme Left-Wing economics. The truth is that both the left wing and the right wing of economic policies have advantages and disadvantages, there is no 'best system' for every country, it depends what you are trying to achieve. For many country's in the world Capitalism, or more accurately, Social Democracy, since pure capitalism has been abandoned by practically every nation on earth, same as Communism, is indeed the system which induces the most propserity, the greatest economic growth. But equally for many other nations, strong Socialism is a better idea. It depends on your priorities.
So, there's my points. As I say, I have no wish to insult anyone or their views, but I strongly detest the arrogant, fundamentalist viewpoint of BOTH sides of the Socialism/Capitalism debate that their system is so ultimately superior, and the other doomed to failure (and I am not referring to anyone here, I make this comment generally). Each has its advantages and disadvantages. Personally, I feel that the oft-quoted Capitalist view that the poor people who would be subisidsed by European welfare systems should get of their feet and stop being lazy, get jobs and invest in medical insurance is horrifically ignorant. Structural unemployment, as was first uncovered in the late 19th century, is the fault of no individuals, simply some people CANNOT get work and CANNOT afford insurance, through no fault of their own. A state welfar system is essential, I believe, to care for all people in society, a reliance on insurance and the power of big bussiness to create better welfare in society is idealistic and completely ignorant of what the lives and economic status of most of the lower segments of all societies in the world are. I would far rather live in a society where the state welfare system was complete, even at the cost of a less laissez-faire economy, that in a total capitalistic society such as that envisaged by the novel Jennifer Government, which deserves a read by anyone interested.
And aplogies for the long off-topic post.
i like when theres long posts!
