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3 grams - Prodigal Son's
- Thread starter grahamiam
- Start date
Admiral Kutzov
Idiot Emeritus
No Civ access until tomorrow night. If next player wants to flip with me, go ahead.
M60A3TTS
Ex-treadhead
I don't believe Joan has been taken down far enough yet. Although we may be able to grab the basic MA techs, we still need to add more Lebensraum. Also vital to fill as we go, as any Japanese settlers that plant a town down in a cleared space by rule can't be eliminated.
We need to be very, very careful with Daddy T. By the score, he's #1, and probably close to building his UU. If he cuts loose with a GA against a comparably weak opponent like Aztecs or Mongols, Japan could run away with this and we won't be able to stop it.
Ultimately we need Theo and Daddy T to square off against one another in a Rumble Royale, but that's for later. Meanwhile, if the map supports it, I'd propose we push north for a while, reaching the border with Spain. By that point, France will be reduced to city-state status. Next up would be Isabella. Given Spain's distance from Japan, Dad would have little to gain militarily as it would take time to gather forces there. A bonus would be if Japan enlisted the Celts so we could sandwich Izzy. Also, taking on Spain in the not-too-distant future may allow us to take them on before their UU shows up.
We need to be very, very careful with Daddy T. By the score, he's #1, and probably close to building his UU. If he cuts loose with a GA against a comparably weak opponent like Aztecs or Mongols, Japan could run away with this and we won't be able to stop it.
Ultimately we need Theo and Daddy T to square off against one another in a Rumble Royale, but that's for later. Meanwhile, if the map supports it, I'd propose we push north for a while, reaching the border with Spain. By that point, France will be reduced to city-state status. Next up would be Isabella. Given Spain's distance from Japan, Dad would have little to gain militarily as it would take time to gather forces there. A bonus would be if Japan enlisted the Celts so we could sandwich Izzy. Also, taking on Spain in the not-too-distant future may allow us to take them on before their UU shows up.
Admiral Kutzov
Idiot Emeritus
got it, will consider options
I think both g-man and M60 have done a good job of laying out the strategy for the next round. I especially agree with M60 that Joan needs ot be taken all the way down to city-state status and that we need to "fill as we go".
I think the landmass wraps around in the north to get us to Byzantium and Japan with maybe Spain in between.
I think the landmass wraps around in the north to get us to Byzantium and Japan with maybe Spain in between.
Admiral Kutzov
Idiot Emeritus
Recon: MM Salamanca to prevent riot.
IT: Celts finish KT
1) 260: movin' stuff
IT: Construction finishes. Start Engineering. Start some markets.
2) 270: minor skirmishing
3) 280: Drake returns to Allegheny. Start parade. MW's attack Paris. Go 5-2. Take it. Big arch thingy under construction. Ooh, aah.
IT: Dad demands gems. No, petulant. Dad mad. Dad declares. Oh, sh**. Massive cascade.
4) 290: nuttin..
IT: Celts finish Leo's, Sistine. Just about all AI building everything (check F7).
5) 300: skirmishes
IT: more skirmishes
6) 310: Found Latrobe. Take Avignon.
IT: Mongols demand gems. No. GA ends.
7) 320: Mongol settler pair near Chartres. Take Tours, secure silks.
IT: Whole lotta led...
8) 330: Capture Chartres.
IT: Byz finish Smiths.
9) 340: Take Grenoble. MGL. Appears Dad has RoP with Joan.
IT: nada mucho
10) 350: Take Besancon. Ronin on the horizon. Dad mad. Don't wanna talk. Save game. Post save before I mess this up any further.
Celts are the rival to beware, not the Byz, IMSO
Save
IT: Celts finish KT
1) 260: movin' stuff
IT: Construction finishes. Start Engineering. Start some markets.
2) 270: minor skirmishing
3) 280: Drake returns to Allegheny. Start parade. MW's attack Paris. Go 5-2. Take it. Big arch thingy under construction. Ooh, aah.
IT: Dad demands gems. No, petulant. Dad mad. Dad declares. Oh, sh**. Massive cascade.
4) 290: nuttin..
IT: Celts finish Leo's, Sistine. Just about all AI building everything (check F7).
5) 300: skirmishes
IT: more skirmishes
6) 310: Found Latrobe. Take Avignon.
IT: Mongols demand gems. No. GA ends.
7) 320: Mongol settler pair near Chartres. Take Tours, secure silks.
IT: Whole lotta led...
8) 330: Capture Chartres.
IT: Byz finish Smiths.
9) 340: Take Grenoble. MGL. Appears Dad has RoP with Joan.
IT: nada mucho
10) 350: Take Besancon. Ronin on the horizon. Dad mad. Don't wanna talk. Save game. Post save before I mess this up any further.
Celts are the rival to beware, not the Byz, IMSO
Save
Admiral Kutzov
Idiot Emeritus
My impression is that Joan has had it. Daddy has his UU and is looking to trigger his GA vs. us!. We can withstand one assualt at Dye city, but not 2. Need to make peace asap. Celts seem to be more dangerous than Byz at this point. We've got 3 lux if we can keep them. I researched Eng rather than Fuedalism in the hope we could trade with Dad. Joan's got an iron deal with someone cause she had isolated MDI. Joan is pretty much 5CC at this point. Agree next target is the Spanish. Cities are building stuff, not war at this time. Next player should do a heavy preturn.
M60A3TTS
Ex-treadhead
@ Admiral: Would you elaborate on what you thought Tokugawa would do when you refused the gems and why? I think most players in this case would have expected to get declared on immediately. Did you think it wasn't a big risk, or was it something else?
M60A3TTS
Ex-treadhead
With Denyd out until the 28th and R&L accounted for but unavailable, I'm going to say "got it."
M60A3TTS
Ex-treadhead
The save at 450AD
Pre-turn (350AD): Stared at this one for a while. First, we dont need courthouses in the core. Viagra Falls courthouse (3) > harbor (1). Same thing for Mauch Chunk, courthouse (6) > harbor (1). Little Big Horn market (19) aqueduct (7). Rheims courthouse>treb. Peace and 99 gold to France for engineering, feudalism, monotheism. Chivalry in 7. Move troops out of Grenoble and abandon it. Start destroying roads between Dijons and Tours in case the Japanese try and come through from that direction. Start tearing up roads around Besancon, which includes the dyes. Shenandoah to Latrobe and builds army. Salamanca MW>MI.
IBT- Lose 2 MWs to Japan at Besancon. Viagra harbor>MI. Cattaraugus courthouse>MI. Oil Springs market>MI. Mauch Chunk harbor>pike. Mystic temple>settler. Spanish building Bachs.
Turn 1 (360AD). Tear up all improvements except 1 tile with road/mine at Besancon. Give Besancon back to France so Japan doesnt capture it. Sell off the Drake and a warrior to cut unit costs.
IBT- Japan advances one samurai south of Besancon. Dont see any others.
Turn 2 (370AD). Contact Dad. Hes willing to listen to his wayward sons appeal for life. Peace Treaty straight up?
Absolutely, and thank you sooo much. Next time you need gems, just say so, and Ill ask what carat. Hurry worker in Tours for 20g. Tona needs a taxman.
IBT- Paris worker>temple. Tona market>temple.
Turn 3 (380BC) Hurry worker in Avignon for 12g. Found Kente. Have to crank lux up a notch to keep people happy.
IBT- Centralia market>harbor.
Turn 4 (390AD) worker actions essentially
IBT- Not much. Some builds come in.
Turn 5 (400AD) More worker actions, getting settler north.
IBT- Nothing much.
Turn 6 (410AD) More worker actions. All the captured French towns like Lyons are now starved down.
IBT- Fatherland is trying to get a settler pair snuck in. Rheims settler>rax. Little Big Horn starts temple. Chivalry in, start invention with a scientist, sci to zero.
Turn 7 (420AD) Our settler 4 turns from getting into the spot Daddy T is trying to get to. Mauch Chunk needs a taxman to keep happy. Sneak a peek at Besancon with an MW, its deserted!
IBT- Aztecs finish Bachs. 2 French workers appear by Besancon.
Turn 8 (430BC) Worker actions.
IBT- Not much, samurai settler pair move off. Aztec pike and MI in their area by Tula.
Turn 9 (440AD) Change Cattaraugus from market to FP. We need a good second location, and it looks to be as good as any we can reasonably expect. Due in 22.
IBT- Sala knight>knight
Turn 10 (450AD) 96 gold spent for embassy in Kyoto. Building university, with about 6 musketman guarding. And its right off the Byzantine border. Get the feeling Constantinople is just in the fog to the west of it. Otherwise the cultural border would be a lot farther out in that direction. Of course may just be a core Byzantine city. Dads ire now downgraded from furious to annoyed. Settler is now 2 west of Tours so can settle in the area next turn or two. Army is in Latrobe waiting to be filled by MI or knights. Back to diplomacy, gems, silks 134g and territory map to Japan for invention. Gunpowder in 50. And done.
The scorched earth exercise at the start can be second guessed all day long, but in the end, what we needed most IMHO was time in order to get chivalry and have some MA units to counter the Samurai in whatever quantity they finally came. At the cost of Besancon, Grenoble and 2 MWs we got peace, and that was a lot sooner than I expected. Tearing up the roads was just to buy enough time to get Dad to the peace conference, and the fact we did not kill any of his units, and settled things in 10 turns was very lucky. Now we have peace with Joan for 10 more turns, and we can get back to Besancon if we so choose. And the settler by Tours can re-settle old Grenoble. Our cash flow is 60gpt, so that should be worth something before too long. If nothing else, the gem and silk deal will keep Japan off our back while we tend to more important matters.
We could use a rax somewhere up north, to heal and upgrade units. Rush prices are running around 120+g near the ex-French towns. The Mongol settler pair was surrounded by Tours and can be released if desired.
Pre-turn (350AD): Stared at this one for a while. First, we dont need courthouses in the core. Viagra Falls courthouse (3) > harbor (1). Same thing for Mauch Chunk, courthouse (6) > harbor (1). Little Big Horn market (19) aqueduct (7). Rheims courthouse>treb. Peace and 99 gold to France for engineering, feudalism, monotheism. Chivalry in 7. Move troops out of Grenoble and abandon it. Start destroying roads between Dijons and Tours in case the Japanese try and come through from that direction. Start tearing up roads around Besancon, which includes the dyes. Shenandoah to Latrobe and builds army. Salamanca MW>MI.
IBT- Lose 2 MWs to Japan at Besancon. Viagra harbor>MI. Cattaraugus courthouse>MI. Oil Springs market>MI. Mauch Chunk harbor>pike. Mystic temple>settler. Spanish building Bachs.
Turn 1 (360AD). Tear up all improvements except 1 tile with road/mine at Besancon. Give Besancon back to France so Japan doesnt capture it. Sell off the Drake and a warrior to cut unit costs.
IBT- Japan advances one samurai south of Besancon. Dont see any others.
Turn 2 (370AD). Contact Dad. Hes willing to listen to his wayward sons appeal for life. Peace Treaty straight up?
Absolutely, and thank you sooo much. Next time you need gems, just say so, and Ill ask what carat. Hurry worker in Tours for 20g. Tona needs a taxman. IBT- Paris worker>temple. Tona market>temple.
Turn 3 (380BC) Hurry worker in Avignon for 12g. Found Kente. Have to crank lux up a notch to keep people happy.
IBT- Centralia market>harbor.
Turn 4 (390AD) worker actions essentially
IBT- Not much. Some builds come in.
Turn 5 (400AD) More worker actions, getting settler north.
IBT- Nothing much.
Turn 6 (410AD) More worker actions. All the captured French towns like Lyons are now starved down.
IBT- Fatherland is trying to get a settler pair snuck in. Rheims settler>rax. Little Big Horn starts temple. Chivalry in, start invention with a scientist, sci to zero.
Turn 7 (420AD) Our settler 4 turns from getting into the spot Daddy T is trying to get to. Mauch Chunk needs a taxman to keep happy. Sneak a peek at Besancon with an MW, its deserted!
IBT- Aztecs finish Bachs. 2 French workers appear by Besancon.
Turn 8 (430BC) Worker actions.
IBT- Not much, samurai settler pair move off. Aztec pike and MI in their area by Tula.
Turn 9 (440AD) Change Cattaraugus from market to FP. We need a good second location, and it looks to be as good as any we can reasonably expect. Due in 22.
IBT- Sala knight>knight
Turn 10 (450AD) 96 gold spent for embassy in Kyoto. Building university, with about 6 musketman guarding. And its right off the Byzantine border. Get the feeling Constantinople is just in the fog to the west of it. Otherwise the cultural border would be a lot farther out in that direction. Of course may just be a core Byzantine city. Dads ire now downgraded from furious to annoyed. Settler is now 2 west of Tours so can settle in the area next turn or two. Army is in Latrobe waiting to be filled by MI or knights. Back to diplomacy, gems, silks 134g and territory map to Japan for invention. Gunpowder in 50. And done.
The scorched earth exercise at the start can be second guessed all day long, but in the end, what we needed most IMHO was time in order to get chivalry and have some MA units to counter the Samurai in whatever quantity they finally came. At the cost of Besancon, Grenoble and 2 MWs we got peace, and that was a lot sooner than I expected. Tearing up the roads was just to buy enough time to get Dad to the peace conference, and the fact we did not kill any of his units, and settled things in 10 turns was very lucky. Now we have peace with Joan for 10 more turns, and we can get back to Besancon if we so choose. And the settler by Tours can re-settle old Grenoble. Our cash flow is 60gpt, so that should be worth something before too long. If nothing else, the gem and silk deal will keep Japan off our back while we tend to more important matters.
We could use a rax somewhere up north, to heal and upgrade units. Rush prices are running around 120+g near the ex-French towns. The Mongol settler pair was surrounded by Tours and can be released if desired.
M60A3TTS
Ex-treadhead
Admiral Kutzov
Idiot Emeritus
@ M60 - I expected to get declared on, but thought Dad was too far north to make effective war on us. Thought we could get peace long before he showed up with his UU. I didn't anticipate Joan's RoP with Dad. Expected Dad to be in Rep and ready for quick settlement.
Joan never made an offer. Was saving the gems to use as trade goods with Dad if we could buy him off for something less. The thought was to get current in tech with Joan's peace offering when it came and then use the gems to get Chiv. from Dad. Core CH were prebuilds for knights since we didn't have a whole lot of cash.
Joan never made an offer. Was saving the gems to use as trade goods with Dad if we could buy him off for something less. The thought was to get current in tech with Joan's peace offering when it came and then use the gems to get Chiv. from Dad. Core CH were prebuilds for knights since we didn't have a whole lot of cash.
grahamiam
In debt to Mr. Geisel
i got it. looks like we're in pretty good shape and closer in tech then when i last left it 
with knights in the builds, i think deciding what to fill the army is a no-brainer 
got it.
with knights in the builds, i think deciding what to fill the army is a no-brainer got it.
grahamiam
In debt to Mr. Geisel
Preflight check:
IBT:
T1: 460AD notice that our research is not terrible right now, as we could do gunpowder in 16 or theology in 12. just need a few more libraries in the core and we could do some self research.
IBT: Centrila harbor -> aque
T2: 470AD Found Kiohero aggressively vs Dijon, but were just going to take that town soon anyways
IBT: Susquehanna: library -> harbor
T3: 480AD Sell Horses to Japan for 3gpt, 130g, and TM
IBT: Sala knight -> knight; Mauch Chunk temple -> aqueduct
T4: 490AD I have to make a slight correction to the builds. See, were on an arch map, and I know its only 60% ocean, but we still need some boats. Right now, we have 0. Switch Mystic and Oka to galleys.
IBT: Latrobe barracks -> granary (this should be a min. improvement town will all irrigation and scientist/taxman specialists, all towns N of that probably should be the same); VF knight -> knight; Marseilles temple -> aqueduct; Tyendenage court -> market; Oka galley -> galley
T5: 500AD Can buy gunpowder from Japan for WM, 31gpt, 471g or we can research in 10T for 940g (-25gpt, 482g in bank). Hold off on both for now.
IBT: Tona library -> aqueduct; Aztecs are building Newtons
T6: 510AD workers improve the land. Units are moving N to wack France in 4T.
IBT: Spain comes calling and wants to swap TMs, sure ; Byz building Newtons
T7: 520AD Verify that Besancon is defended by a spear.
IBT: Sala knight -> knight; Oil Springs Knight -> Library; Mystic galley -> treb.; Gewauga aqueduct -> court
T8: 530AD landscaping. Aztecs are headed S with 2 regular pikes? Upgrade a nearby vet warrior to MDI just to be sure.
IBT: Centralia aqueduct -> knight; Celts are building Newtons.
T9: 540AD nada
T10: 550AD nada
We can attack France now. Please do so as i've left most unit movements at the front available. Extract Gunpowder or Theology from this war. I also strongly feel that we should go after the Aztecs. All we need is about 6 galleys and we should be set. Get the knight army overthere and then start being obnoxious. Civs are dusting us again and we need to rethink going after Spain based on our new map knowledge. Whatever we do, we must hit France now as well as maneuver to hit our next foe. Well probably need at least 2 wars at once to get this going. Everyone is a democracy and happily researching/trading while we sit and stew.
IBT:
T1: 460AD notice that our research is not terrible right now, as we could do gunpowder in 16 or theology in 12. just need a few more libraries in the core and we could do some self research.
IBT: Centrila harbor -> aque
T2: 470AD Found Kiohero aggressively vs Dijon, but were just going to take that town soon anyways
IBT: Susquehanna: library -> harbor
T3: 480AD Sell Horses to Japan for 3gpt, 130g, and TM
IBT: Sala knight -> knight; Mauch Chunk temple -> aqueduct
T4: 490AD I have to make a slight correction to the builds. See, were on an arch map, and I know its only 60% ocean, but we still need some boats. Right now, we have 0. Switch Mystic and Oka to galleys.
IBT: Latrobe barracks -> granary (this should be a min. improvement town will all irrigation and scientist/taxman specialists, all towns N of that probably should be the same); VF knight -> knight; Marseilles temple -> aqueduct; Tyendenage court -> market; Oka galley -> galley
T5: 500AD Can buy gunpowder from Japan for WM, 31gpt, 471g or we can research in 10T for 940g (-25gpt, 482g in bank). Hold off on both for now.
IBT: Tona library -> aqueduct; Aztecs are building Newtons
T6: 510AD workers improve the land. Units are moving N to wack France in 4T.
IBT: Spain comes calling and wants to swap TMs, sure
; Byz building NewtonsT7: 520AD Verify that Besancon is defended by a spear.
IBT: Sala knight -> knight; Oil Springs Knight -> Library; Mystic galley -> treb.; Gewauga aqueduct -> court
T8: 530AD landscaping. Aztecs are headed S with 2 regular pikes? Upgrade a nearby vet warrior to MDI just to be sure.
IBT: Centralia aqueduct -> knight; Celts are building Newtons.
T9: 540AD nada
T10: 550AD nada
We can attack France now. Please do so as i've left most unit movements at the front available. Extract Gunpowder or Theology from this war. I also strongly feel that we should go after the Aztecs. All we need is about 6 galleys and we should be set. Get the knight army overthere and then start being obnoxious. Civs are dusting us again and we need to rethink going after Spain based on our new map knowledge. Whatever we do, we must hit France now as well as maneuver to hit our next foe. Well probably need at least 2 wars at once to get this going. Everyone is a democracy and happily researching/trading while we sit and stew.
grahamiam
In debt to Mr. Geisel
new world map (TM's from Japan and Spain)
M60A3TTS
Ex-treadhead
If Sala is building knights, once the workers are done mining at Oil Springs, they should mine Sala's gem tile, and then move the scientist elsewhere to put it, MM'ing Sala to 24spt. That would be a knight every 3 vs. current 4.
Also, if we take on Aztecs, presumably Tula and Tlaxcala should be razed so that new towns can go in 1N or 1NE of Tula and 1W of Tlaxcala. That way galleys make the crossing unhindered in 1 turn.
Also, if we take on Aztecs, presumably Tula and Tlaxcala should be razed so that new towns can go in 1N or 1NE of Tula and 1W of Tlaxcala. That way galleys make the crossing unhindered in 1 turn.
grahamiam
In debt to Mr. Geisel
good eyes. there are other tiles as well in the core that need improving as we seemed to be have been too enamoured with our new French holdings. the town SE of Sala needs work and other core towns need basic improvements like ducts and libraries. lot's to doM60A3TTS said:
main thing is to get the AI out of those happy democracies and back into Monarchy.
denyd
Emperor
I go away for a couple of days and return to find Joanie barely hanging on and get to read about or first spat with Dad. I agree with reducing Joanie a litle more and getting a couple of techs in the process, then going after Monty. We're doing better on tech in this on than I feared, though if Theo is building Newton already, she could have rifles soon.
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