32 bit vs 64 bit and dx10 vs dx 11 limitations

[marioflag]

In a few previews i have seen that Civlization 5 will support DX11 and there could be some limitations for 32bit systems.

I would like to know from Greg or Elizabeth if there is any official info about the following issues:

-Will cards supporting DX11 have a better graphic compared to high end VGA cards which does'nt support it?
Is it required to have a 64 bit system to play the game at highest settings or on huge maps?
If those info can't yet be given, when they will be released? Will 2K make an official statement about those issues?

 

[Grey Fox]

I think the difference between DX11 and DX9 is more about performance than graphical look.

Also, DirectX 11 will be a big benefit for users, even if they don’t have DX11 capable hardware. The API itself is much more heavily threaded, and even DX9 and DX10 hardware users will see performance increases with DirectX 11.
from greyfox.me

 

[CurseUppl]

Not to sound harsh, but gamers should slowly be transitioning to 64 bits Windows since, well, the release of Win7 64 bit (which is very stable and I love it).

 

[Rebel44]

I am using 64bit OS since 2007 without any problem.

Its about time that developers start providing us with 64bit version if it improve game performance.

 

[civ_king]

Well, there is 64 bit for those who can use it and 32 bit for those who can't, the 64 bit will be able to use more RAM (although they said it wont be as bad RAM wise as Civ IV) and a I think that's it

Now to DX, the difference between DX9 and DX11 is performance and the ability to handle high poly counts better

 

[marioflag]

Not to sound harsh, but gamers should slowly be transitioning to 64 bits Windows since, well, the release of Win7 64 bit (which is very stable and I love it).

Well the point of the thread is to get information if Civ5 needs a 64 bit system to be played at highest settings and if we need a DX11 card.
I agree with you that a transition to 64 bit is necessary for gamers in the short-medium period but it is important anyway that all civers know if those are mandatory requirements or not for highest settings.

 

[civ_king]

If you use bigger than included maps you will probably need 64 bit (like the Giant and Gigantic map scripts)

 

[Jamuka]

-Will cards supporting DX11 have a better graphic compared to high end VGA cards which does'nt support it?

They've said they will have some DX11 "goodies". Most likely, that means tessellation, which is the big new feature in DX11. If that is the case, you will need a DX11 card to get the benefit. Tessellation is not an FPS/performance increase - it makes things look better.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=345655 for an explanation.

 

[mantis2007]

Direct X is a more significant issue for Civ V because Firaxis has specifically said DX11 will be supported. DX9 will be fully supported, and if your computer is a DX9 computer, you will be able to play Civ V. It'll look good; you'll almost certainly love it.

Those gamers lucky enough to be on Windows 7 with brand-new, DirectX 11 compliant graphics card will get some extra graphics fireworks. Nothing essential to enjoying the game, probably just some better looking water, more vibrant colors, perhaps slightly better performance when scrolling or looking at large sets of units.

CAVEAT: the screenshot I'm about to link to is from a preview build of Civ V and doesn't represent the final product, plus I don't know anything i'm an idiot grain of salt. Here's a screenshot showing the some of the differences between DX11 and "integrated" (probably DX9) graphics on an early build of Civ V.

I asked for advice on the upgrading from DX9 to DX11 question not too long ago on this very forum. Sage advice received: wait for the game to come out before buying new DX11 stuff. DX9 will work; you'll be able to play the game, and you can always buy new DX11 stuff later.

On 32- vs. 64 bit computing. In this context, 32- or 64-bit refers to the amount of random access memory (RAM) the program can use at one time. Civ V will almost certainly be a 32-bit only game. Don't worry: if you have either a 32- or 64-bit version of Windows and a computer that meets the game's system requirements, you will be able to play Civ V with no problems. You will be able to play any map of any size. You will be able to have the same number of units.

To be as clear as possible because this is confusing:

32-bit and 64-bit versions of Windows can play Civ V equally well!

The vast majority of PC games are 32-bit. They're doing great. 64-bit PC games are still science fiction. Civ V almost certainly will not have a 64-bit version [EDIT: I am wrong about this -- see below]. This is not a problem. Civ V will run in 32-bit mode on your 64-bit Windows box, in the same way that your 32-bit web browser is reading this article on your 64-bit Windows box.

My point is: don't worry about 32- vs. 64-bit for Civ V. It's a non-issue for the game.

EDIT: Firaxis has confirmed that they will provide a 64-bit version of the game. Please scroll down for more information.

 

[Kaelic]

My point is: don't worry about 32- vs. 64-bit for Civ V. It's a non-issue for the game.

Expect the masses to come frothing in about how X game has a 64-bit binary and is assuredly faster, completely ignoring your post.

 

[Rebel44]

On 32- vs. 64 bit computing. In this context, 32- or 64-bit refers to the amount of random access memory (RAM) the program can use at one time. Civ V will almost certainly be a 32-bit only game. Don't worry: if you have either a 32- or 64-bit version of Windows and a computer that meets the game's system requirements, you will be able to play Civ V with no problems. You will be able to play any map of any size. You will be able to have the same number of units.

To be as clear as possible because this is confusing:

32-bit and 64-bit versions of Windows can play Civ V equally well!

The vast majority of PC games are 32-bit. They're doing great. 64-bit PC games are still science fiction. Civ V almost certainly will not have a 64-bit version. This is not a problem. Civ V will run in 32-bit mode on your 64-bit Windows box, in the same way that your 32-bit web browser is reading this article on your 64-bit Windows box.

My point is: don't worry about 32- vs. 64-bit for Civ V. It's a non-issue for the game.

Wrong.

It as already confirmend by Firaxis that Civ5 will have 64 bit version.

 

[mantis2007]

Thank you, Rebel44. Can you provide a link to an article or press release confirming that there will be a 64-bit version of Civ V? I'll happily stand corrected.

If this is true, a 64-bit version of Civ V will have the capability of addressing more than 4GB of real RAM. The 32-bit version should still have the capability of addressing more than 4GB of RAM through the use of virtual memory and other techniques.

I strongly suspect that the game will play great with a 32-bit binary. The overwhelming majority of Civ V players will play the 32-bit version, and Firaxis will ensure that they have a good experience.

A 64-bit binary for Civ V could possibly mean a slightly better performance for the 64-bit version on the same hardware, in some situations. The exact difference in performance will have to be tested after the game has been released. My prediction is that the performance difference will be small, and will not justify buying new hardware and/or reinstalling your Windows OS in order to upgrade from 32- to 64-bit.

Note that 64-bit does not automatically guarantee better performance over 32-bit. A 64-bit processor running 64-bit programs doesn't mean "faster." The only significant difference is in how RAM is addressed. 64-bit can address more RAM than 32-bit.

 

[Rebel44]

Thank you, Rebel44. Can you provide a link to an article or press release confirming that there will be a 64-bit version of Civ V? I'll happily stand corrected.

If this is true, a 64-bit version of Civ V will have the capability of addressing more than 2GB of real RAM. The 32-bit version should still have the capability of addressing more than 2GB of RAM through the use of virtual memory and other techniques.

I strongly suspect that the game will play great with a 32-bit binary. The overwhelming majority of Civ V players will play the 32-bit version, and Firaxis will ensure that they have a good experience.

A 64-bit binary for Civ V could possibly mean a slightly better performance for the 64-bit version on the same hardware, in some situations. The exact difference in performance will have to be tested after the game has been released. My prediction is that the performance difference will be small, and will not justify buying new hardware and/or reinstalling your Windows OS in order to upgrade from 32- to 64-bit.

Note that 64-bit does not automatically guarantee better performance over 32-bit. A 64-bit processor running 64-bit programs doesn't mean "faster." The only significant difference is in how RAM is addressed. 64-bit can address more RAM than 32-bit.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=367909

 

[mantis2007]

Here's the money quote from the official Civ V podcast (episode 1, I believe):

"Dennis Shirk [Firaxis Civ V producer]: And we think people, once they see the game in action – we had a little bit of this when we showed the game at PAX – is that people are generally unbelieving that that's possibly a Civilization game because it just looks amazing. The graphics team with Dan Baker, and Josh Barczak, John Kloetzli – they just went all out with driving everything that they could into this game while still keeping it as working as possible on older machines which is what I think is the most surprising. We've got a few versions of the game. For instance we have something for DX9 and DX11, they're working on deploying the 64-bit version so we're looking at it scaling extremely well whether you're on bleeding edge or whether you're on something older."

Thanks to Rebel44 for the link to this quote. I stand corrected, and I'm very impressed with Firaxis. They're showing that Civ V will be at the forefront of gaming technology -- a 64-bit version of Civ V that supports DirectX 11.

Importantly, please note that Shirk asserts that the game will scale "extremely well whether you're on bleeding edge or whether you're on something older."

Again, no need to rush out and upgrade to a 64-bit machine that supports DX11. Your 32-bit copy of XP running DX9 will work just great.

EDIT: A link to the official transcript of the podcast, with the quote from Shirk. http://civilization5.com/#/community/podcast_transcript_1

 

[PeterWimsey]

Not to sound harsh, but gamers should slowly be transitioning to 64 bits Windows since, well, the release of Win7 64 bit (which is very stable and I love it).

I don't disagree with that, and I'm using W7 64bit...but most gamers are probably still using XP...and civ gamers even more so.

 

[mjs0]

An interesting article about the uptake of 64bit win7.

From the article...percentages running 64bit Windows:

XP <1%
Vista 11% (3.5 years after launch)
Win7 46% (After just 6 months)

It may not add up to a lot today, but the increase in uptake is clear.

 

[chongli]

If Civ V is specifically designed for 64-bit (in other words, requiring more than 2GB of RAM) it will be suicide for Firaxis. That will cut out a huge percentage of their customers. On the other hand, if the game is 64-bit capable but does not require all that much RAM there will be little benefit to it.

This is the dilemma of 64-bit. To get the greatest benefit out of it you need to find a way to use all that RAM. You also don't want to leave money on the table.

 

[civ_king]

If Civ V is specifically designed for 64-bit (in other words, requiring more than 2GB of RAM) it will be suicide for Firaxis. That will cut out a huge percentage of their customers. On the other hand, if the game is 64-bit capable but does not require all that much RAM there will be little benefit to it.

This is the dilemma of 64-bit. To get the greatest benefit out of it you need to find a way to use all that RAM. You also don't want to leave money on the table.

They said it will be more RAM efficient

 

[Quintillus]

If Civ V is specifically designed for 64-bit (in other words, requiring more than 2GB of RAM) it will be suicide for Firaxis. That will cut out a huge percentage of their customers. On the other hand, if the game is 64-bit capable but does not require all that much RAM there will be little benefit to it.

This is the dilemma of 64-bit. To get the greatest benefit out of it you need to find a way to use all that RAM. You also don't want to leave money on the table.

I'm sure you won't need that much RAM for your standard-sized maps - they should run fine on commodity hardware. But if it's possible to heavily scale up the size of maps, the larger amounts of addressable memory should prove a great benefit for those wishing to play such gigantic maps. Civ4 very much ran into issues in the memory area on very large maps, rendering its de jure support for larger maps and more cities than Civ3 moot.

I'm glad to hear that 64-bit is official - somehow I missed that news for a whole month! If Civ5 does prove to be an excellent game, I just might have to upgrade to 6GB of RAM and XP 64-bit, perhaps even a better CPU for the most epic maps. The graphics I'm pretty indifferent to - running DX9 on DX10 hardware is more than good enough for me if the strategy element is good.

edit: I doubt there will be a requirement to have a 64-bit system to play really big maps, but if you don't have a 64-bit system and you try to play a Super-Amazingly-Enormous size map, you might well run into Memory Allocation Failures (MAFs) or the like, just as in Civ4. Graphics-settings-wise, you probably would be able to play with the highest settings on a Tiny map with 1.5 GB RAM if you wanted to and had a good enough graphics card.

 

[Intellectus]

Alot of the people posting here will probably have the good machines anyway. Its the group that doesn't come here often that Fraxis is targeting.