3UC/4UC for VP: Project Coordination Thread

[pineappledan]

re: the carolean, that doesn't make sense. this line exists in the code:
UPDATE Unit_ClassUpgrades SET UnitClassType = 'UNITCLASS_GREAT_WAR_INFANTRY' WHERE UnitType = 'UNIT_SWEDISH_CAROLEAN';
there is no reason for carolean to be upgrading incorrectly

Does anyone know how indentation is even coded into the text entries? Apparently there's inconsistent spacing issues with the text files, but I've never seen any code for inserting tabs

 

[Infixo]

Fixed Yamato, Goedendag and some typos.
For Yamato to take effect - as it adds new files to .modinfo - you need to rebuild the project in ModBuddy and restart the game.
All files in !Animations are needed as they are all referfenced in updated .fsmxml for modern ships.

 

[adan_eslavo]

Sorry for long absence:

• I added Horse Archer lua and cleaned huns' folders and art.
• I added all pictures from @pineappledan to my main post.
  • What's the change in Inca picture? I cannot see anything different.
• I have such error and I don't know if it is something in my files messed up or something from VP:

[10784.224] Runtime Error: [string "Assets\DLC\Expansion2\UI\InGame\Popups\Cultur..."]:948: attempt to index local 'icon' (a nil value)
stack traceback:
    [string "Assets\DLC\Expansion2\UI\InGame\Popups\Cultur..."]:948: in function 'SortAndDisplayYourCulture'
    [string "Assets\DLC\Expansion2\UI\InGame\Popups\Cultur..."]:1166: in function 'RefreshContent'
    [string "Assets\DLC\Expansion2\UI\InGame\Popups\Cultur..."]:483: in function 'TabSelect'
    [string "Assets\DLC\Expansion2\UI\InGame\Popups\Cultur..."]:2219: in main chunk
    [C]: at 0x004e8270
[10784.224] Runtime Error: Error loading Assets\DLC\Expansion2\UI\InGame\Popups\CultureOverview.lua.

 

[Infixo]

[10784.224] Runtime Error: Error loading Assets\DLC\Expansion2\UI\InGame\Popups\CultureOverview.lua.

Installation issue. Probably re-install VP. CultureOverview should be loaded from VP (it has its own version).
I have no errors in any log when running current version of Uniques.

 

[pineappledan]

Inca has two changes: UA description says mountains give gold instead of food. Intihuatana icon has replaced tambo icon

 

[adan_eslavo]

@Infixo Ok, reinstallation of new version of VP helped.

@pineappledan It would be good but you sent us old version? Still tambo and food.

v29 up! Official download ready.

 

[pineappledan]

Oh crap, I’m at work I can resend in 4 hours

 

[adan_eslavo]

No hurry I just found some time to do smth with this mod. When you send that I will do art update plus some new text addition.

 

[Hinin]

Very happy to see you two back !

re: the carolean, that doesn't make sense. this line exists in the code:
UPDATE Unit_ClassUpgrades SET UnitClassType = 'UNITCLASS_GREAT_WAR_INFANTRY' WHERE UnitType = 'UNIT_SWEDISH_CAROLEAN';
there is no reason for carolean to be upgrading incorrectly

Some pictures to illustrate the problem :

Spoiler Carolean Tercio ? :

In addition to what I said before, the faith/production costs aren't correct either. Plus, we can see a discrepancy between the attributes and the what the civipedia say : the replaced unit is the Tercio in the first picture, the Fusilier in the second.

Also, I just discovered that the Horse Archer has all its promotion in double (except the "Horse Archer" one), and that the Game info of the Homestead doesn't mention the fact that the UB give increased yields to Horse/Sheep/Cattle compared to Stable (plus affect Bison in addition to these three).

 

[pineappledan]

notes on 4UC text descriptions:

Spoiler :

Descriptions for Japan, Korea, Songhai and Venice are completely missing.

America:
monitor unique "monitor" promotion has been renamed harbor guard
Ranch is renamed homestead

Babylon:
I believe the culture on citizen birth is just a flat 15, scaling with era. It's the exact same as the national monument, so no need to bold it.

Carthage:
I renamed Shophet to Suffet. It's the Carthaginian spelling rather than the Hebrew.
Tophet description should say the culture boost on unit purchase scales with gamespeed

Egypt:
Nilometer can no longer be built in cities if they have a well.
Can remove incan tambo from buildings that improve flax, since tambo was scrapped

France:
SPAD now has air logistics, and does not have quick study or air range

Germany:
Slaganz should note that it does not have 'Brute Force' promotion

Huns:
Current description does not list the change to horse archer

Indonesia:
Prau - no information on unit CS (14). "Slipstream" spelling error

Iroquois:
Prowler - no no information on unit CS (17) or RCS (30)

Maya:
Holkan: trailblazer is misspelled. Lost codices description should indicate how much science is gained (10)

Morocco:
Riad: What is going on with the Great merchant points? I have a hard time reading the lua, but it can't possibly be giving 100 GMP every turn for every trade route.

Netherlands:
Goedendag: spelling error (unnecessary space, "F ood")

Ottomans:
Tersane - The description says it gives 30% production for ALL ships, but the SQL only gives 30% for naval melee ships, and none to ranged. We need to decide if the description is wrong or the code is wrong

Persia:
Pairidaeza - the bonuses are listed in a weird order. Why are the yields on the building itself listed 5th instead of 1st or 2nd?

Poland:
Barbican - spelling error (Embrasure, only 1 's')

Polynesia:
Koa - missing that it has "amphibious" promotion

Siam:
Wat - missing that it contains 2 slots for great works of writing (2 science/2 faith if themed)

Spain:
Hacienda - current description says base yield is 2 gold, but sql has it as 1 gold. Either SQL is wrong or description is wrong

Zulu:
InDuna - Ibutho and Iqawe descriptions are switched. IBUTHO gives bonus XP when stacked, IQAWE deals damage when unit is expended

Lastly, I think when this is done as a new OP, I think it would look much better with each description under a picture of only that 1 single civ, instead of a picture of 5, then a list of all 5 at once. Look at KevinJK's 5UC project for an example of the layout I mean.


overall impressions of what needs to be discussed or tested for balance:

Spoiler :

Tophet looks a bit weak compared to contemporary buildings, but it's already pretty potent because it comes so early and can be invested in with Carthage's bonus gold. It might need to be buffed more, but I would like someone to try it first.

Tersane - right now the Tersane gives +0% to naval ranged units and +30% to naval melee. I don't know what the intent is. I think it would be fine at 30% for both though

Hacienda - the description that @adan_eslavo has made lists its base yields as 1/1/2, but the actual yields the UI currently gives are 1/1/1. When @FoxOfWar did an early test on Spain this UI was totally OP, but it's been drastically changed. Another test with this UI is needed to see if it performs well.

Prau - Looking again at Indonesia's build, I have fooled around with the prau and I love it, but I think it could do with a small reduction in CS to 12-13 (1-2 less than base trireme). The unit is designed to avoid combat, and does that exceedingly well. Perhaps it should come with the caveat that the unit can't hold its ground?

Mughal Fort/Qila - The building converts 10% of food every turn into culture. This is incredibly powerful. I would maybe say too powerful. What if instead the building gave 15% of city defense as culture?

Kampong - Changes to the imperialism tree have made the tree an absolute must for Indonesia (monopolies have been buffed, and ocean tiles now get 2/1 and earlier). Kampong already gets boosted by lighthouse, harbor, and seaport, so I wonder if this UI is too buff now?

Any new UBs which give irregular buffs to luxuries (Agora and Baan Chang) - These buffs are really only for flavor, but they could be situationally powerful. It might be best if we abandon "flavor" boosts to specific luxuries if people find it disrupts gameplay overmuch.

Horse Archer - Removing accuracy I might not be enough of a nerf to compensate for the unique promotion we gave the unit; it's a very useful promotion. We might need to reduce RCS back to the base skirmisher's (12) as a way of rebalancing the unit.

Wat - We dropped a non-central buff on Siam's UB, and compensated with 3 weaker buffs. I like the extra literature slots more than the unique spy actions at the moment, but if people find the Wat is significantly better with the 4UC changes, we could drop the spy action stuff

@Hinin, something must be shorting out the SQL, probably a misplaced semi-colon, etc. The combat numbers are wrong, the cost is wrong, everything below a certain line in the code is an error

Adding a line about what resources the RanchHomestead boosts is redundant in the help section because the building description already lists all that, but I have added a note for it in the strategy section

 

[pineappledan]

Here's the folder with the fixed inca picture.

Looking at Zimbabwe, I think 15% city defense converted to would be more fair than what we currently have for India. The conversion from is just too powerful, but scales with pop anyways

function DefenseToCulture(iPlayer)
    local pPlayer = Players[iPlayer]

    if pPlayer:GetCivilizationType() == GameInfoTypes.CIVILIZATION_INDIA then
        for pCity in pPlayer:Cities() do
            if pCity:IsHasBuilding(GameInfoTypes.BUILDING_INDIA_QILA) then
                local iCultureChange = 0.0015 * pCity:GetStrengthValue()

                pCity:SetNumRealBuilding(GameInfoTypes.BUILDING_DUMMYCULTURE, iCultureChange)
            end
        end
    end
end

GameEvents.PlayerDoTurn.Add(DefenseToCulture)

 

[FoxOfWar]

I've started to roll a random civ each game now that we have them pretty much all in 'need testing' phase(only re-rolling if I get a civ I have just recently tested without them being changed). Current game(w/ newest update): Russia, but am only in Classical so far. Will likely continue that game later, see what Pogost gets to when I go wide and conquering (and of course, test Licorne while doing that). Gold from city connections is hard to see on paper just how good it'll be, so I'm definitely curious.

 

[pineappledan]

Do people agree with the idea of switching the source of the Qila's culture?

Do people agree with reducing the yields on Kampong?

Do people agree with reducing the CS of the prau by 1 (1 less than base trireme)?

Do people agree with reducing the RCS of the horse archer down to 12 (same as skirmisher)?

Do people agree with adding 30% production to naval ranged units to the tersane?

What are people's thoughts on bonuses on specific luxuries in addition to the base VP buildings (Agora & Elephant Camp)?

How would you change the Tophet?

EDIT: An idea for Tophet:
- Unit purchase scales with CS instead of by era. (6 for warrior, 11 for spearman, etc.) Civilian units are 5, scaling with era.

 

[Jarula]

Give it a pourage and whey ability.

 

[Hinin]

Spoiler Answers :

Do people agree with the idea of switching the source of the Qila's culture?

I don't think this is necessary. I've never seen India becoming a runaway in all my games with it (so around 5), and I think additionnal reviews are necessary. As a temporary measure, why not simply decrease the conversion percentage to 7 or 5 % ?

Do people agree with reducing the yields on Kampong?

Yes definitely. This UI is very powerful (and the Indonesian economy is already powerful enough in the early game). To me, the main problem is the science yield. I think reducing it to 1 (with all tech boosts) and lowering the other yields a bit could be enough. What do you suggest ?

Do people agree with reducing the CS of the prau by 1 (1 less than base trireme)?

I don't think that's a good idea. Why do you want to do this (a Trireme is already fragile enough) ?

Do people agree with reducing the RCS of the horse archer down to 12 (same as skirmisher)?

So... the Huns would be the only civ with UM whose CP aren't modified compared to the base units ? Why not (the Hunnic armies are already unique enough... pun), since the Horse archer already have 3 powerful attributes (lowered cost, doesn't require Horse, unique promotion)

Do people agree with adding 30% production to naval ranged units to the tersane?

I think the UB is already very powerful on its own, and so doesn't need other bonus.

What are people's thoughts on bonuses on specific luxuries in addition to the base VP buildings (Agora & Elephant Camp)?

I'm totally against adding some more of these types of bonus. Except for Rome (this "bonus on specific resources" is the base concept of the Latifundia), we should avoid adding UC whose efficiency are tied to uncontrollable factors (it is not a question of starting bias here, but of resource distribution, which can't be influenced by our mod, except in the case of UC spawning resources, like the Shoshone UB, the Egypt UB2, the Brazilian UI, the Indonesian UA).

How would you change the Tophet?

Your idea seems good to me (CS often scales with the production cost, so it provides a sort of gold/culture conversion), but is it feasible ?

 

[pineappledan]

Spoiler :

I don't think this is necessary. I've never seen India becoming a runaway in all my games with it (so around 5), and I think additionnal reviews are necessary. As a temporary measure, why not simply decrease the conversion percentage to 7 or 5 % ?

I'll reduce it to 5% for now. The nice thing about scaling it on defense is it fits better with the Qila being a castle, and it would still scale with India's population (which contributes to city defense). The other thing is it would feel more like a unique mechanic, which is something the Qila lacks right now. Yield conversion is also found on Hanse, Coffee House and Qadi.

Yes definitely. This UI is very powerful (and the Indonesian economy is already powerful enough in the early game). To me, the main problem is the science yield. I think reducing it to 1 (with all tech boosts) and lowering the other yields a bit could be enough. What do you suggest ?

The science yield comes extremely late so I don't think that's the culprit. I'll set it to 1 though, and I'll move the +1 prod from dynamite to navigation and drop the +1 culture at navigation

I don't think that's a good idea. Why do you want to do this (a Trireme is already fragile enough) ?

triremes are 14CS, enough to 1-shot a penteconter/dromon. The idea would be to make the prau less able to stand up against other triremes, since their main abilities are all about running away. I'll leave it be then.

So... the Huns would be the only civ with UM whose CP aren't modified compared to the base units ? Why not (the Hunnic armies are already unique enough... pun), since the Horse archer already have 3 powerful attributes (lowered cost, doesn't require Horse, unique promotion)

The huns would still have +2CS, so they would be 12/12, while skirmishers are 12/10.

I think the UB is already very powerful on its own, and so doesn't need other bonus.

I'm interested in hearing @adan_eslavo's thoughts on this, since he coded it. I wonder if adding 15% to ranged naval, just so it matches with a base harbor? Right now, this one aspect of the building is weaker than what it replaces

I'm totally against adding some more of these types of bonus. Except for Rome (this "bonus on specific resources" is the base concept of the Latifundia), we should avoid adding UC whose efficiency are tied to uncontrollable factors (it is not a question of starting bias here, but of resource distribution, which can't be influenced by our mod, except in the case of UC spawning resources, like the Shoshone UB, the Egypt UB2, the Brazilian UI, the Indonesian UA).

I agree, though I would like to hear @Blue Ghost and @adan_eslavo's perspectives on this

Your idea seems good to me (CS often scales with the production cost, so it provides a sort of gold/culture conversion), but is it feasible ?

After sleeping on it, it is possible, but it loses something in translation because then there wouldn't be a way to scale by game speed.I think something else would be more effective

Ideas for Tophet:

• add back the gold scaler (1 for 4 )
• 50% of Faith per turn in city is added as an instant boost whenever a citizen is born (like indus canal production boost)
• culture on unit purchase scales with CS of unit (would have to modify this based on era though)
• Gold Purchases in city are 5% cheaper
• +1 culture in city whenever a GG or GA is born (scrap the culture on unit purchase)

 

[infidel88]

While Inca observatory seems strong enough (easily reachable 8 when you research Theology), it has mistake in description. As you can see in picture, I am getting 11 from buildings, having 3 mountains in range (each should give 2). So math doesn't work. 3.75 (monasterY) + 1.25 (well) +4.5 (granary) = 9.5 . Either EUI mistake or?

 

[Infixo]

@infidel88 More uniques use often dummy buildings to achieve desired effects. You won’t see them in any UI, dummies are hidden.

 

[pineappledan]

@Infixo, the building in question doesn't use any dummy buildings, it's SQL only.

I don't know how the EUI deals with the Building_YieldPerXTerrainTimes100 table though. Nothing on that building isn't done with base VP already (food for mountains is same as Machu Picchu, science same as base observatory)

Could the 11 from buildings be 9.5*1.15(granary modifier)? And the 6f from intihuatana could be added somewhere else?

 

[Infixo]

@infidel88 Can you post a bigger picture? I can't see any numbers on it.
Where is the math problem? On the building level or in the tooltip? The tooltip gets data from engine, EUI doesn't calculate anything here. Buildings are taken from engine but some effects are added by EUI. I don't know if this table is an existing one or a new one. New tables are often not programmed into EUI (and it is not EUI error but whoever's created the table error).