3UC/4UC for VP: Project Coordination Thread

[pineappledan]

I wasn’t suggesting anything needs to be changed re:buffalo pound, just asking for flax, I just noticed it avoided mountains and wanted to see if features like hill were treated identically to that.

Bison spawning in forests and hills is fine; wood bison are definitely a thing where I live and their range is right up into the mountain passes. Your call whether or not you feel you want to restrict this to plains buffalo

I think Yellow Brow is working, he was just high fiving you

 

[adan_eslavo]

Ok. I updated previous post with bugs. Check it because you could miss something.

I also cannot reproduce bug with Boudicca and misterious inscription in the corner. Can you?

In Poland we have European Bison (wisent) who also lives in forsests. So I will live it as it is. I was very excited because of number of bugs you all found.

BTW You have lots of work with texts. There were many changes and tweaks and I didn;t care too much about updating text. Sometimes I did it. Sorry.

@FoxOfWar Nice catch with Grande Ecole. It was missing UnlockedByFaith value. I added it so now should be ok.

 

[pineappledan]

I also cannot reproduce bug with Boudicca and misterious inscription in the corner. Can you?

Yeah I don't get that. How is that even a thing? it's obvious there is a leader screen popping up, so what does that error even imply?

BTW You have lots of work with texts. There were many changes and tweaks and I didn;t care too much about updating text. Sometimes I did it. Sorry.

Yeah lots to do with the text. I should stop theorycrafting the new, unclaimed civs and keep my head down.

In Poland we have European Bison (wisent) who also lives in forsests. So I will live it as it is. I was very excited because of number of bugs you all found.

I sometimes forget you live in the part of Europe with actual wild animals still.

 

[Hinin]

Here are four new tables.

Yes I was high-fiving you.
The Kowtow promotion is working as intended
The Exam Hall is working as intended (question : is the yield depending on the era ? in my playtest, the GP points gained were huge, but maybe it was because I had unlock lots of eras before)
I've done a play session with Ethiopia, but the fights took place in a forested area, so I didn't see the effect. I'll do some tests.
=> In this session, I had huge amounts of faith (with Zealotry, miam) and really felt the power of the Monolithic church, which transforms hilly terrain, not very interesting in the Medieval era, into sorts of holy sites, ideal with my strategy (faith = food in capital).

Here are some details on this session.

Spoiler Playsession :

Settings : Communitas map, difficulty 6, epic speed, profusion of resources, enraged barbarians, no events

My religion was :
- Goddess of Protection
- Founder giving food/GA points when spreading
- Mosquee
- Church
- Zealotry
- Tourism from buildings bought with faith

On the six religions authorized, five were on my continent (Austria, which dominated the other continent, had no problem gaining more delegates, since everybody there was Catholic).
Another peculiar thing was that two powers (Shoshones and America) volontarily chose to become vassals to major powers (Austria and Arabia) respectively, which made the diplomatic game quite original
I conquered all American cities and made America my vassal after it chose to quite Arabia. Now, with Greece as my BFF, we are preparing ourselves against Arabia. (but I'll stop this play session, for it takes some time and I have other civs to test).

Here are some pictures (I've been using some Enginseer mods at the same time for enjoyment).

Spoiler Ethiopia :

 

[adan_eslavo]

@Hinin Barbarian Penalty was lowerd to -10% (Leiomano, description said -15%) instead of deleting it entirely. Is it working that way or maybe ot has 2 promotions for that penalty?

 

[De_Genius]

@Hinin When a unit has been transported around the seas by a Langskib and the Langskib leave them on an ocean tile, it can't moves anymore. (it isn't a problem, just a remark)

I am aware of that, but do not really see any way to solve this as such. Thematically it would be equivalent to them falling overboard or something Not enough life boats

 

[adan_eslavo]

Added missing value for Klepht (BaseLandAirDefense). Maybe lower it to 1?

Bowman and Atlatist looks balnd hen compared to Slinger.

 

[Hinin]

@Hinin Barbarian Penalty was lowerd to -10% (Leiomano, description said -15%) instead of deleting it entirely. Is it working that way or maybe ot has 2 promotions for that penalty?

I'll check that ingame.

@Hinin When a unit has been transported around the seas by a Langskib and the Langskib leave them on an ocean tile, it can't moves anymore. (it isn't a problem, just a remark)

I am aware of that, but do not really see any way to solve this as such. Thematically it would be equivalent to them falling overboard or something Not enough life boats

I don't think we need to change this : it was simply funny to see Settlers stuck in high-sea.

Added missing value for Klepht (BaseLandAirDefense). Maybe lower it to 1?

Bowman and Atlatist looks balnd hen compared to Slinger.

For the Air Strike defense, since the Klepht are guerilla troops, giving them only 1 could fit thematically, but I fear it would make them too vulnerable against civs like France.
The Bowman is bland but strong. The one that bothers me more is the Atlatlist : it is cheaper, comes earlier and is stronger than the Composite archer, but it is virtually the opposite of a "legacy unit", since all its advantages disappear very quickly (this fact is accentuated by the science-focus of the Maya in the early game).

 

[adan_eslavo]

Armada indeed needs a buff.
I will reapir Koa anyways. There was misspelling and I deleted Barbarian_Penalty_I instead of II (mistake while changing from pathfinder to scout.

 

[pineappledan]

I wouldn't make the air defense of the klepht different from the base GG. It would be awkward to have to describe that to the player, and the game impact is minimal.

I think the atlatlist strike should be reduced to 33% vs wounded and allowed to be kept on promotion. We could call it something else, like "poison-tipped" or something. The atlatls were sometimes dipped in poison collected from central american toads, but this was rare. makes about as much sense as the arbitrary nature of the previous promotion

re: the Armada - The Santa Maria shouldn't give -3 move. that hurts this unit bad. If the movement must be that low, then you should give it 2 more CP, and boarding party I & II, to make it a sort of "If this thing catches you, you're F*CKED". Make it the anti-ship corvette, while the sea beggar is the anti-city one

re: Xiafan Guanjun - I think we can do better than supply on Xiafan Guanjun. Sea Beggar already gets this

re: the India and Songhai UUs, please refer to the 4UC by civ spreadsheet for those proposals. I think that if you look at the unit's real-world history, the Sofa medic I makes more sense than the barbican medic promotion. I don't think it's a problem, but I would rather alter the barbican if this is a problem.
I made an alternative proposal for culture yields on level for the indian archer. I would rather keep the Kibitum more unique

re: pathfinder UU, Maya Holkan has a pathfinder proposal

re: Koa - It might appear underpowered if you are comparing it directly with the Bandeirante, but keep in mind that Explorers are almost useless because late era exploration units have no purpose. I think we could drop the -10% vs barbarians entirely, make it stronger AND simpler.

According to Hinin's chart the Koa is also missing treasure hunter? Is that a typo, or do we need to add that back too?

re: cruiser UU. If we do the vasco da gama cruiser, then I vote we give Japan the Yamato battleship. A cruiser might be more "useful", but the Yamato is more important to Japan's history, saw more combat, captures the imagination better, wouldn't double up on cruiser UUs. Lastly, the Mikasa was the last pre-dreadnought ever built; it was already a fossil when it was built.

Thanks for your work Hinin, I have added the new spreadsheets to the 4UC spreadsheet, and added my own commentary there

 

[adan_eslavo]

Did someone test Barbican? I'm curious why @Hinin had problem with it.

 

[Hinin]

re: the Armada - The Santa Maria shouldn't give -1 move. that hurts this unit bad. If the movement must be that low, then you should give it 2 more CP, and boarding party I & II, to make it a sort of "If this thing catches you, you're F*CKED". Make it the anti-ship corvette, while the sea beggar is the anti-city one

I agree with this idea. With this and the GAdmirals who will inevitably be born from the Santa Maria promotion, the Spanish navy will be slow and hard to replace (except with enough faith), but will pack unforgettable punches within good conditions.

re: the India and Songhai UUs, please refer to the 4UC by civ spreadsheet for those proposals. I think that if you look at the unit's real-world history, the Sofa medic I makes more sense than the barbican medic promotion. I don't think it's a problem, but I would rather alter the barbican if this is a problem.
I made an alternative proposal for culture yields on level for the indian archer. I would rather keep the Kibitum more unique

I agree that the barbican should be the modified building (the question is : by what do we replace the effect ?).
Indian archer : what do you propose exactly ?

re: pathfinder UU, Maya Holkan has a pathfinder proposal

Ok fine with me

re: Koa - It might appear underpowered if you are comparing it directly with the Bandeirante, but keep in mind that Explorers are almost useless because late era exploration units have no purpose. I think we could drop the -10% vs barbarians entirely, make it stronger AND simpler.

I agree entirely. Better simply suppressing the barbarian penalty.

According to Hinin's chart the Koa is also missing treasure hunter? Is that a typo, or do we need to add that back too?

It is simply an error, sorry.

re: cruiser UU. If we do the vasco da gama cruiser, then I vote we give Japan the Yamato battleship. A cruiser might be more "useful", but the Yamato is more important to Japan's history, saw more combat, captures the imagination better, wouldn't double up on cruiser UUs. Lastly, the Mikasa was the last pre-dreadnought ever built; it was already a fossil when it was built.

With a unit that late, tests will need to be done to see if it is still relevant, but I give the benefit of the doubt.

Thanks for your work Hinin, I have added the new spreadsheets to the 4UC spreadsheet, and added my own commentary there

It's a pleasure to be able to participate one way or another.

Did someone test Barbican? I'm curious why @Hinin had problem with it.

The problem is still present in my playtests.

 

[pineappledan]

Indian archer : what do you propose exactly ?

India UU - Dhanuraashi (Archer)

Spoiler :

Unlocked at Trapping
60 production
5 CP, 7 RCP (up from 5/6)
"Dhanurvidya" promotion - when killing a unit, gain Faith equal to the strength of the unit killed. (kept on promotion)
"Yogastha Kuru Karmani" - +5XP on kills, Recieve Culture on levelling (culture is equal to 5x (current unit level-1)) (kept on promotion)

I agree that the barbican should be the modified building (the question is : by what do we replace the effect ?).

I will reiterate that I don't think this is actually a problem, but maybe no promotion at all? The ducal stable already gives bonus XP to another class. what if it increased the ranged Dmg of the city by 33% instead of augmenting units?
Poland UB - Barbican (replaces Armory)

Spoiler :

Unlocked at Steel
Requires Walls in the city (does not require barracks)
+2 Culture, +2 Faith, +2 In city (up from 2)
+25XP to units trained in city (up from 20XP)
+5 CS to city
+33% Ranged Combat Strength in city
+2 Military Supply Cap.
Reduces Crime (-20%)

New units added to the 4UC unit spreadsheets:
Holkan (pathfinder)
Chasqui (scout)
Cacadores (Gatling Gun)
Geobukseon (Caravel)
Seir Morb (Cannon)
Sofa (Crossbowman)
Dhanuraashi (Archer)
Slaganz (Warrior)
Dromon (Byzantium)

If anyone has any ideas pertaining to the Vasco da Gama (Portugal, bottom center of this mod), the Mikasa (Japan), or the Yamato (Japan), feel free to post them in the forum, or add them to the 4UC spreadsheet.

 

[adan_eslavo]

After finishing Kibitum (last touches left, look at description, I modified it a little) I will try to put suggested modifications to Koa, Armada and Barbican. Nevertheless I would like to resolve the Barbican issue. @pineappledan do you have the same problem like @Hinin with getting those promotions on archer and siege units?

I really don't like actual Etemenanki picture from regalmanemperor. I want to use this instead. Do you know how it is called in game and what atlas doeas it come from?

 

[pineappledan]

This is what you are looking for. The icon you are hoping to use is of a non-specific ziggurat and does not represent what the entemenanki is theorized to have looked like. regalmanemperor's icon is much more accurate. That having been said, I agree that his icon looks too bright and overexposed to be consistent with the other icons. Maybe you could run it through a filter to lower the contrast

<Type>BUILDING_ZIGGURAT</Type>
<IconAtlas>WONDER_BUILDING_ATLAS</IconAtlas>
<PortraitIndex>0</PortraitIndex>

I haven't tried playing the game. I'm not at a computer with civ 5 right now

 

[Hinin]

Spoiler Assyria :

Pineappledan:
alternative for armour plating - Fury of Nergal (+10% for every adjacent enemy unit)
Make the Iron chariot more aggressive
Chariot needs rough terrain debuff, could drop horse strategic requirement to compensate
Lamassu Gate needs a Great writing slot, so Assyria doesn't start making GWs before it can house them.

I know it is a point of contention, but I'm with pineappledan on this : having a chariot without the "rough terrain penalty" is bizarre, and it offers an interesting counter-balance to the brute strength of this unit (block the unit against rough terrain, and attack it with ranged units, since Fury of Nergal partially counters flanking bonus). In front-line combat, a unit with Fury of Nergal can tip the scale (suppressing the Horse cost would allow making such a frontline, and would recreate the "Assyrian chariot core").

Spoiler Inca :

UU: Chasqui (Scout)
Unlocked at Sailing
90 production
10 CS (same as Scout)
no movement penlaties
Treasure hunter (+25% Goody Huts Bonuses)
debuff vs barbarians
Tambo System - 10 hp healed per turn in friendly territory
Khipu Runner - +1 Science on discovering new territory
Altitude Training - +10% CS & double movement on hills)

I've had Incan units with Altitude training once : my mountains had become a highway.
I like the idea of a movement-based scout, but I don't like the tambo system (it is a watered-down version of what the Immortal has). Why not replace it with some infrastructure (the unit could build roads very quickly, like a Worker with Progress and the Pyramids) ?

I was thinking about an Observatory replacement (it would imper with the Rationalism branch, but nothing stops us from adding a bonus to this UB to the policy normaly allowing its construction) : it would make the Incan UC a little more spread out, and would still be in harmony with the food/science/mountain theme of the civ (and we have no Observatory replacement)

.

Spoiler India :

UU: Dhanuraashi (Archer)
Unlocked at Trapping
60 production
5 CP, 7 RCP (up from 5/6)
"Dhanurvidya" promotion - when killing a unit, gain Faith equal to the strength of the unit killed. (NL)
"Yogastha Kuru Karmani" - +5XP on kills, Recieve culture on levelling (culture is equal to 5x (current unit level-1)) (NL)

I like the idea (tests will need to be done to see if this isn't too much though), but the YKM name is too complicated.
Since the Dhanurvidya is a martial art, why not replacing the YKM by this name, and make the faith promotion the same as for the "Bogurodzica" of the Polish Pancerny (in that case, we should replace the name by some thing like "Epic", as a reference to the fact that Mythology is made up of countless legends).

Spoiler Korea :

UU: Geobukseon (Caravel)
Unlocked at Compass
180 production (20 more than Caravel)
4 movement
34 CS (9+ than caravel, 2 less than corvette)
"Deck Spikes" Promotion - +25% vs melee

I think the Turtle ship should really be a Galleass replacement and not a Caravel one : its main weapon was its frontal canon, it was manoeuverable but wasn't made to allow deep-sea travel (and forbidding Korea to travel through seas with their Caravel would be a real downside).
Here is what I would more like to see

Geobukseon (Galleass)
Unlocked at Machinery instead of Guilds
Cost : 200 Production (instead of 175)
18 CP (instead of 12) / 24 RCP (instead of 22)
Has the "Deck spikes" promotion (+33 % CS when attacked in melee) (NL) => so it would be like attacking a Caravel to attack this monster (24 CS)
Has the "Blind ship" promotion (when attacking naval units, attacks in melee before attacking in range) (L) => the opposite of the "Spear throw" of the Impi, it would be a reference to how Geobukseon were used to ram against enemy ships before delivering a salvo of fire, and would make it a killer against other ranged ships ; in terms of animation, it would simply be a double fire animation
Cannot move after attacking (L)
=> This ship would be the naval equivalent of the Naga-Malla : it would try to stuck to enemy ships and thanks to its ZOC and its "Deck spikes" promotion, would absorb fire while delivering powerful punches when needed. A polyvalent but expensive ship acting as a spearhead or as a shield.

Spoiler Maya :

UU: Holkan (Pathfinder)
45 production
6 CS (+1 from pathfinder, same as warrior)
no movement penlaties
+50% Goody Huts Bonuses (up from 25%)
Does not have debuff vs barbarians (but does not have warrior's brute force promotion either)
*"K'atun Ahaw" - +5% RCS for every 20 turns the unit has existed, to a max of 20%
**Capture Raid - On kill 3 Science in every city as an instant boost

I don't know what to think about this unit : the Maya are science-focused enough with their UA (demanding you to rush Mathematics) and their UI. The "K'atun Ahaw" will be hard to code, and, at the end, it simply gives +20 % CS to the unit (a bland bonus in disguise unfortunately, contrary to the one the Kibitium has, since it doesn't have a hard cap ; making a unit stronger simply for existing isn't a good decision to me). For the Goody huts bonus, it looks like a watered-down version of the Shoshone UA (a bit more yield at random is less powerful than less but controlled bonus)... I don't think this idea is good (sorry for that)...

Spoiler Siam :

UU: Seir Morb (Cannon)
Unlocked at gunpowder
350 production
15 CS, 35 RCS (+1/+5 from cannon)
Cover I & II promotions
Does not have +100% vs cities
+25% vs Naval (has bonus instead of penalty vs naval)
Siege inaccuracy (-33% RCS vs land)
"Crouching Tiger" Promotion - +8 RCS on attack for every full movement point left on unit

I like this a lot, but what 3d model will you use ?

I really don't like actual Etemenanki picture from regalmanemperor. I want to use this instead. Do you know how it is called in game and what atlas doeas it come from?

This picture is good (although inaccurate). The problem is that it is already used for a Founder religious building...

 

[pineappledan]

I like the idea of a movement-based scout, but I don't like the tambo system (it is a watered-down version of what the Immortal has)

Tambo system as described is more like "march", it will heal 10hp even if you perform another action. this meshes well with the survivalism line, which gives 15hp if OUTSIDE friendly territory, and heal per turn. if you maxed that you would heal 25 every turn outside friendly territory and 20 inside. Perhaps the tambo system can be increased to 15 hp to make it square?

Chasqui were essentially a pony express made out of marathon runners in the mountains. Tambos were the facilities set up as relay stations so they could pass off the messages to a fresh runner. Chasqui needs to have something to reflect their primary use as internal to the empire; they aren’t really soldiers. I thought this would fit the bill, especially if Tambos weren’t added as the UB.

I'll update the spreadsheets to make Tambo system more clear

I was thinking about an Observatory replacement

You would be disincentivizing Rationlism hard, by essentially giving them a better version of a policy for free. We would have to decide if that's a price we are willing to pay.

I like the idea (tests will need to be done to see if this isn't too much though), but the YKM name is too complicated.
Since the Dhanurvidya is a martial art, why not replacing the YKM by this name, and make the faith promotion the same as for the "Bogurodzica" of the Polish Pancerny (in that case, we should replace the name by some thing like "Epic", as a reference to the fact that Mythology is made up of countless legends).

This is a great idea. They do the same thing, and i believe the faith generation rate we put on them both is already equal

I think the Turtle ship should really be a Galleass replacement and not a Caravel one : its main weapon was its frontal canon, it was manoeuverable but wasn't made to allow deep-sea travel (and forbidding Korea to travel through seas with their Caravel would be a real downside).
Here is what I would more like to see

The Panokseon, which actually formed the larger part of the Korean navy when turtle ships were around, are essentially galleases. The turtle ship's job was to engage in close quarters as a way of drawing the Japanese off of the Panokseon. The Turtle ship was purpose-built to counter boarding actions and act as an answer to Japan's naval tactics, which emphasized boarding and hand-to-hand combat.

For those reasons, I don't support the idea of a geobukseon as a galleas replacement. It flies in the face of how the ship was actually used. I'd sooner let them enter deep ocean than make them ranged.

I don't know what to think about this unit : the Maya are science-focused enough with their UA (demanding you to rush Mathematics) and their UI. The "K'atun Ahaw" will be hard to code, and, at the end, it simply gives +20 % CS to the unit (a bland bonus in disguise unfortunately, contrary to the one the Kibitium has, since it doesn't have a hard cap ; making a unit stronger simply for existing isn't a good decision to me). For the Goody huts bonus, it looks like a watered-down version of the Shoshone UA (a bit more yield at random is less powerful than less but controlled bonus)... I don't think this idea is good (sorry for that)...

I don't like it either, which is why I said I was leaning towards making the Holkan a spear replacement instead. The pathfinder is too early, too weak, and there's nothing within Mayan culture or military tactics to legitimize a scout replacement.

I like this a lot, but what 3d model will you use ?

The french 155mm might be the best fir for what's available. This type of gun was common as a coastal cannon, and the calibre is about right. It should actually be an artillery replacement, since the gun is from the Franco-Thai War of 1940. Oops. I've made the change

 

[Blue Ghost]

Re: Khopesh:
The Fatigue effect doesn't kick in until after combat.

Re: Etemenanki:
Apparently WONDER_BUILDING_ATLAS isn't present when the Wonders of the World scenario isn't loaded. You'd need to create a new atlas with the image file.

Re: Xiafan Guanjun:
I feel that Supply is the most fitting promotion for a ship that's best known for its extended voyages. Alternatively (or in addition), I could use Prize Rules. Is that being used by any current units?

Re: Iron Chariot:
I feel like the rough terrain penalty would make it not feel like a real horseman, and not having a real horseman is a disadvantage for a civ. But if the two of you agree, then I'd be fine with it.
Regarding Fury of Nergal, it would be doable, albeit a bit of a hassle to code. I don't know of any way to dynamically adjust combat strength for a single combat in Lua. Best I could do would be to have a series of dummy promotions providing the combat bonus, and then check the unit every time it attacks or is attacked to grant it one of the dummy promotions until the next combat. Doable, but clunky. Do you know of any better solutions?

No strong opinions on the other discussions going on, and there are too many for me to keep track of. I agree with @pineappledan that we should avoid unique Observatories or other exclusive buildings. There are enough base buildings to go off of.

The Nilometer is currently not working properly; a last-minute change introduced a SQL syntax error. Will fix that, along with all the other bugs reported.

 

[adan_eslavo]

@Hinin When a unit has been transported around the seas by a Langskib and the Langskib leave them on an ocean tile, it can't moves anymore. (it isn't a problem, just a remark)

I have an idea but it is a bit brutal: you can check if (with some dummy promotion) you escort unit. Then after move look for it, search for nearest tile with coast and send it there. You can always force them to move where landskib is moving as it was tied to it. Automatically until it met coast.

Re: Etemenanki:
Apparently WONDER_BUILDING_ATLAS isn't present when the Wonders of the World scenario isn't loaded. You'd need to create a new atlas with the image file.

That wouldn't be a problem but @Hinin said that that picture was used somewhere else. Is that confirmed? I personally didn't pay the attention to it and wikia saw it for the first time. If that's true I will try to fix picture I have by myself.

I modified Kibitum Legacy: now gives 8% CS on levels 2, 4, 6, 8 and 10 (40% in total), 10% on 12 and 25% on 15 (75% in total, good luck with that). It is hard to code infinite upgrades and lvl 15 is well... I doubt someone especially AI will achieve that. It is just remote target.

Did someone tested Barbican bug with medic promotion beside @Hinin? I'm really curious if somene else can reproduce this bug.

Why do you want to change barbican's main ability? Do you want new ability (range attack bonus) to be available in all city's area or only for garrisoned units.

 

[Hinin]

Tambo system as described is more like "march", it will heal 10hp even if you perform another action. this meshes well with the survivalism line, which gives 15hp if OUTSIDE friendly territory, and heal per turn. if you maxed that you would heal 25 every turn outside friendly territory and 20 inside. Perhaps the tambo system can be increased to 15 hp to make it square?

The problem with this "in friendly territory" heal is that it incentivize you to keep the unit near your borders, maybe in a defensive role, while its CP is too low to bring any real usefulness in combat. For me, the utilization of a UC slot must be justified by the usefulness the unit brings, and this version doesn't seem to do bring much (aside this mobility, which normally incentivize you to go outside your not-so-big territory at this stage of the game). Once again, I would be much more for a mobile/engineer scout, which can create highways for your settlers and troops early in the game (normally, using a worker to do it would require much time and would distract it from building the terrace farms you need so much), and, maybe with "Medic I" and a lower cost, provides the logistic support your troops may lack (the Chasqui were messengers after all).

Here is what I would go for

Spoiler Chasqui :

Chasqui (replaces Pathfinder)
- Available immediatly
- Cost : 35 Pr (instead of 45)
- 6 CS (instead of 5)
- Ignores terrain cost
- “Penalty against barbarians”
- “Reconnaissance” (gains xp when discovering new tiles) promotion
- “Treasure hunter” (+25 % yields from Ruins) promotion
- "Altitude training" (+10 % CS when fighting on hill ; double movement on hill) (NL)
- "Medic I" promotion (NL)
- can build Roads with necessary technology (Wheel) ; build at increased speed (L)
=> It would be a unit that could be useful in many situations : you take "Medic II" at lvl 1, and you have a real boost to the endurance of your army in the early game ; you can use the hills to quickly turn around an enemy units and capture some undefended workers/settlers ; when you create a settler, you build a road just before its apparition to have fast settling (fast settling means more secure settling, since barbs will have less time to attack you) and an early city connection...
=> It only an idea, but what do you think ?

You would be disincentivizing Rationlism hard, by essentially giving them a better version of a policy for free. We would have to decide if that's a price we are willing to pay.

I know... But I don't like the idea of having all Incan UC condensed into the ancient and classical era. They were so advanced in agriculture and architecture...

For those reasons, I don't support the idea of a geobukseon as a galleas replacement. It flies in the face of how the ship was actually used. I'd sooner let them enter deep ocean than make them ranged.

I accept your idea. In that case, however, I would suggest something in bewteen. A caravel with a ranged attack (so a naval version of the Impi), resistant to melee attacks, but a little more expensive.

I don't like it either, which is why I said I was leaning towards making the Holkan a spear replacement instead. The pathfinder is too early, too weak, and there's nothing within Mayan culture or military tactics to legitimize a scout replacement.

The french 155mm might be the best we can do.

The problem is that the French 155mm is a XIX-XXth century weapon...