3UC/4UC for VP: Project Coordination Thread

[pineappledan]

Updated Art Assets

Completed SQL on 4 civs. Just need .lua and testing. Inca is the only civ left

@Blue Ghost I added alternative unit and icon art for the iron chariot and the hashemite. I'm really not happy with how my Hashemite icon turned out and I think DMS' will present a lot better in game. Should be a simple matter of renaming the new files identical to the old ones, then clicking and dragging them into the folders

@Ziad, while I agree that Carthage just got knocked on its ass this patch, I don't think it's our place to do Gazebo's balancing. I would guess that a hotfix will add a 3rd trade route to their UW, or some other buff.

 

[Ziad]

Updated Art Assets

Completed SQL on 4 civs. Just need .lua and testing. Inca is the only civ left

@Ziad, while I agree that Carthage just got knocked on its ass this patch, I don't think it's our place to do Gazebo's balancing. I would guess that a hotfix will add a 3rd trade route to their UW, or some other buff.

Oh OK sure.You're right it's probably too early to make a change just yet.

 

[hokath]

The bigger issue is Enginseer's Events and decisions. We have a lot of conflicts with that, specifically with respect to unique units. There's also some of those events which implicitly or explicitly refer to new UCs in our mod (eg. a Maya event refers to the invention of the mesoamerican ballgame). It will be awkward if we don't deal with those

I intend to update the unique decisions mod when you have finished. Any suggestions would be appreciated; things that didn't make it into this mod, for example.
German orders (especially in the latest version where they are literally Teutonic Chapters) and Korean turtle ships also need attention. Probably some others that I've missed.

 

[adan_eslavo]

Maintenance cost is inherited from base building. There's no need of updating that. I will look into rest of things.

 

[IcyAngel]

I'll just leave this here...

Spoiler :

 

[Infixo]

Romans love Figs...

 

[pineappledan]

Sexy, you got 1 more to place on wheat too

 

[Ziad]

That is scary.

Are you certain yields should be this high? lol

 

[pineappledan]

I intend to update these when you have finished. Any suggestions would be appreciated; things that didn't make it into this mod, for example.
German orders (especially in the latest version where they are literally Teutonic Chapters) and Korean turtle ships also need attention. Probably some others that I've missed.

We talked about this in an earlier post

Things that I've noticed are:

• We have 5 UU overlaps:
  • Ballista
  • Hakkapelliitta
  • Great Galleass
  • Longbowman
  • Turtle Ship
• Some Unique Units that you could use instead:
  • England - Redcoat
  • Russia - Streltsy
• Aztec's unique decision is "Form the Imperial Jaguars and Eagles", but our mod adds eagles where before they only had jaguars. It gives 30XP to all existing jaguars when passed. Maybe it should boost Eagles as well?

• Carthage's unique decision is "Hanno's Voyage", which among other benefits gives a free G. Admiral. With our mod installed that GAdmiral will be able to disembark and be a shofet as well. It won't cause any conflicts
• The Maya Decision is to establish "Pok-Ta-Pok", another name for the Mayan ballgame. It gives +2 culture to Kuna. We could change this to actualy boost our Pitz courts. We should agree on a name, I think; we are using different Mayan languages to name stuff

• China's decision is "Establish the Imperial Exams", and our mod makes Exam halls a UB to replace the chancery. it currently gives +1 production and culture from paper makers and +1 culture from universities on empire.

• Persia's decision gives them access to Byzantine Cataphracts as an additional UU, and that's weird and dumb. We could make a new decision which plays off their use of Qizilbash with our mod, or there are alternative persian UUs that other modders have made.

• Mongolia's decision gives +4 gold for courthouses, and our mod gives a unique courthouse which can be built in non-occupied cities, so that could be much stronger than intended

• Greece's Event decision also plays off philhellenism, and our mod adds a Klepht UU. I think the event doesn't need to be touched. Allied CS give free military units at the outbreak of any war.

• Japan's event decision is called "Patronise the Theatres" and we are making a kabuki theatre for them.

That is scary.

Are you certain yields should be this high? lol

Essentially, the Latifundium give about the same total yields as a normal plantation, but they tech up earlier and their bonuses are not tied to various policies, etc. The yields on the lat aren't too outrageous on their own
Now this is a case where he got 7 latifundia up on the same city, which is a very rare occurrence. Consider that France can place 3 chateaus for every luxury and Rome can only place 1 lat. This is just an example of an extremely well-placed city.

Great tile porn, @IcyAngel , I want to see someone convert a hilly spot into a New Jerusalem with Mono Churches now

 

[Ziad]

Great tile porn

omg lmao

 

[Chandler]

Essentially, the Latifundium give about the same total yields as a normal plantation, but they tech up earlier and their bonuses are not tied to various policies, etc. The yields on the lat aren't too outrageous on their own
Now this is a case where he got 7 latifundia up on the same city, which is a very rare occurrence. Consider that France can place 3 chateaus for every luxury and Rome can only place 1 lat. This is just an example of an extremely well-placed city.

Hey, a noob here (I mean it, a total noob, specially in this thread), but I wanted to add something. While what you said about Chateaus and Latifundias is true... I think because of the mod system of encouraging the "urbanization" and the use of specialists slots, cities are usually left with not too many citizens working tiles around them. And, in that case, I think the possibility of creating few TI with many and high yields is much more valuable than creating many TI with "mediocre" yields, as you won't want/be able to work all of them anyway.

 

[adan_eslavo]

• I know it would be much work, but is it possble to make Latifundia art adjust just like Plantation over different resources?
• I will leave Bowman as it is now. Changing +2CP for Cover I is not a big deal.

 

[pineappledan]

cities are usually left with not too many citizens working tiles around them. And, in that case, I think the possibility of creating few TI with many and high yields is much more valuable than creating many TI with "mediocre" yields, as you won't want/be able to work all of them anyway.

latifundium kinda splits the difference on that by giving more bonus resources. We may have failed to account for the extra yields of the luxury/bonus resource directly underneath the lati. If it’s a Grocer boosted resource the yields could get quite high.

EDIT: I made a few small corrections to my SQL codes, and was thinking about the Hunnic Tarkhan. The abilities we have given the unit so far are nice, but highly situational. What about also adding this?

"Steppes Leader" - Barbarians units are instantly healed 15HP when converted (Total HP = 40 after conversion)

Instead of a heal on kill, it heals the converted unit on kill. This partially walks back the Huns nerf that just happened this patch (50 hp on conversion down to 25).
Also, this recent patch seriously nerfed the tersane, which I think is good because that building is, imo, the strongest one we have made

@adan_eslavo i think it’s fine. Maybe the Roman landscape is going to get a bit homogenous. What you are proposing, however would be an enormous amount of work, for very little benefit

 

[Jarula]

Little question what is monopoly bonus for fig and maybe we should change lats yields a bit... More culture less food...

 

[Chandler]

Little question what is monopoly bonus for fig and maybe we should change lats yields a bit... More culture less food...

It's a bonus resource, so... none. The same as cows, sheeps or bananas don't have a monopoly bonus, either.

 

[pineappledan]

@adan_eslavo, it might be worth reducing the base food to 1. With a granary, bananas and wheat is 5 food unimproved. Luxury resources are worth even more.
The fact that this improvement is ON resources, which are also boosted by buildings, means they can get extremely powerful, and I think we failed to account for things like arena, grocer, etc. Boosting the latifundia

 

[Hinin]

"Steppes Leader" - Barbarians units are instantly healed 15HP when converted (Total HP = 40 after conversion)
Instead of a heal on kill, it heals the converted unit on kill. This partially walks back the Huns nerf that just happened this patch (50 hp on conversion down to 25).

Why only barbarian units (since the Huns can convert all hostile units killed by one of their melee cavalry unit) ? If this promotion can heal all units converted by the Tarkhan by 25 hp (so that they can be some use in combat), it would totally justify the increased cost of the unit at that stage of the game (it would also make the unit the core of the Hunnic army with no direct combat bonus, but several abitilities helping in lots of situations and rewarding for taking risks with the unit).

@adan_eslavo, it might be worth reducing the base food to 1. With a granary, bananas and wheat is 5 food unimproved. The fact that this improvement is ON resources, which are also boosted by buildings, means they can get extremely powerful.

On paper, the UI is indeed very powerful, but suffers from the fact plantation LR/Banana/Wheat can sometime be almost totally absent from the landscape around Rome : I think we should wait more tests before nerfing the UI...

 

[pineappledan]

Why only barbarian units (since the Huns can convert all hostile units killed by one of their melee cavalry unit) ? If this promotion can heal all units converted by the Tarkhan by 25 hp (so that they can be some use in combat), it would totally justify the increased cost of the unit at that stage of the game (it would also make the unit the core of the Hunnic army with no direct combat bonus, but several abitilities helping in lots of situations and rewarding for taking risks with the unit)

The UA used to convert barb units at full HP in encampments, with this it would be 40HP. My intention wasn’t to reverse G’s changes, only soften them for when you are building armies, and not in a pitched fight with another civ

I don’t think that the 15 hp on conversion should be added to converted CS/civ unit’s because those converted units translate into fodder that the enemy has to clear in the next turn. All this would do is increase the number of unit actions that a civ needs to burn before they can really fight your army.

The reason I selected 15 hp is twofold: it doesn’t completely walk back G’s balance change, and it mirrors the 15hp heal on kill that units get from Authority.

The tarkhan is cheaper than the horseman (by a mere 5 hammers), and horsemen already are core to a Hun army.

 

[Hinin]

The tarkhan is cheaper than the horseman, currently, and horsemen already are core to a Hun army.

I actually thought it was a bit more expensive... My bad...

The UA used to convert barb units at full HP in encampments, with this it would be 40HP. My intention wasn’t to reverse G’s changes, only soften them for when you are building armies, and not in a pitched fight with another civ

I don’t think that the 25 hp on conversion should be added to converted CS/civ unit’s because those converted units translate into fodder that the enemy has to clear in the next turn. All this would do is increase the number of unit actions that a civ needs to burn before they can really fight your army.

The reason I selected 15 hp is twofold: it doesn’t completely walk back G’s balance change, and it mirrors the 15hp heal on kill that units get from Authority.

Since my idea was born from the belief the unit was more expensive, what you say makes sense with a cheaper unit.

 

[Blue Ghost]

Is there a GameEvent for converting barbarians? How are you planning to implement that?