3UC/4UC for VP: Project Coordination Thread

[pineappledan]

Well I know that barbarian warriors, horsemen, axethrowers and spearmen are actually unique unit types, separate from major civ equivalents. I don’t think unique unit types exist for barb archers and composite bowmen though. You could check for those unit types instead of checking for a barb tag, if any exists

Once again, lua reta.rded here. That’s why I only worked on civs with little/no lua work needed, and picked low-hanging fruit like research, text and sql. I’ll leave it to either you or Adan to figure what is possible or not

 

[Jarula]

Wasn't talking about nerfing it why not up the culture... Drop the food a bit.

 

[pineappledan]

Because 1 culture per tile at classical is plenty, and if @IcyAngel posts a new photo of that game at Renaissance, with grocer and temple online, then those tiles will have almost doubled in value. I hadn’t realized it before, but he does not have a temple in that city yet (+1 culture/faith on incense)

 

[IcyAngel]

Spoiler :

Any reason why I cannot build a monolithic church on this marble? On the stones I am given the option, but not the marble.

 

[pineappledan]

Adan removed it on marble because AI was being a dolt. It would build a quarry, then tear it down for a mono church, then tear that down for a quarry, on and on. Same reason we had to take plantations away from Rome. Can't give the AI nice things

 

[hokath]

Adan removed it on marble because AI was being a dolt. It would build a quarry, then tear it down for a mono church, then tear that down for a quarry, on and on. Same reason we had to take plantations away from Rome. Can't give the AI nice things

Could this be fixed by making the improvement's flavors artificially high?
Edit: Ok I set them all the 1000 and it didn't help, that doesn't seem to be used at all.
edit edit: I tried to move the yields into Improvement_ResourceType_Yields, but even when it strictly dominates the quarry it still builds over it. Further, I saw it build over a Stone at the start as well, which was concerning.

In other news, the monolithic church is HUGE Perhaps set the scale to 0.75 from 1.5?

 

[adan_eslavo]

• I was scaling Monolithic Church down, but the model is made to take whole surface beneath. If I scale it down then around it there will be circle in other color and this look worse.
• I was also trying different approaches to make AI use only Monolithic Church or Latifundium, but when there's Luxury Resource there it has something like: "Oh I can build something there, let's go. Uhh finished, but hey we can build something there, let's go! Oh crap not again, let's go and build something there!". Maybe @Infixo could add some changes to VP through dll to prevent such idiocracy? :] For me adding MC back on Marble is one line in sql. There's no problem when there's Stone, Wheat or Banana so it can be done.
  
• Did someone test Barbican after rework? I will add in next version restriction for its new ability (now only Archer and Siege units will get Barbican promotion on Garrison in the City).
• I will start incorporating England soon. Everyone ok with that?
  • As we talked earlier, there will be problem with code for Longbowman's dynamic added RCS when attacking adjacent unit. This need to be reworked. I was thinking about giving -20% CS for adjacent units but it will be too OP, becuase every English unit will benefit that,
  • I was looking into Hermitage and it is ridiculously OP. We need to resign from few things,
    • no earlier tech
    • no bonus to Zoos and Custom Houses
    • smaller bonus to Armories - +1p),
    • giving them Artifact will make theming bonus unavailable unless moving that artifact into other place. To make theme bonus we need different Eras and Players Art not Artifact. Ok. I saw that @FieryCharizard7 made two different theming bonuses, both requiring Artifacts. That's somehow nerf because original building was requiring art.
• I added description for England in main post.

 

[hokath]

Ladies and gentlemen of the jury. 0.75 left and 1.5 right. Perhaps somewhere in between?

Perhaps you could use the tag MustBeEqualArtArtifact for the Tower? I don't know how this would behave with 3 slots so you might need to make it 4. When I initially read the design, I assumed all those bonuses to other buildings would be local (like how arena buffs barracks and so on) because they represented things that happened in London, and not England as a whole. Then it wouldn't seem that OP.

 

[adan_eslavo]

• Local would be a lot better than global.
• Can you make this surface below MC have better radius. I know that smaller UI is looking better but if we could make this surface bigger...
• "Must be equal" is probably for even numbers. For now I will stay with 3 slots and artifact bonuses.

 

[pineappledan]

0.75 looks way better. the way the feature dwarfs the city at 1.5, it may obscure units if it were that big

That's a good idea, hokath. @adan_eslavo, could you make all those building modifications local, except castle?
You're right about the artifact slot. In that case, should make it "artifacts belonging to different civilizations and different eras". That will make the slots extremely easy to fill, because artifacts are often dug up from other civs, and an industrial or later one is unheard of.

Is 1 earlier tech really OP? Carthage's NW moves forward 2 techs, and Assyria's moves 1. I thought it would work well for the game to get their wonder at the start of the renaissance, when everyone else gets their first spy.

Edit, now I'm curious to see a mono church with stone popping out under it. I don't even think it would look that bad. Marble might be an eyesore though

 

[adan_eslavo]

No problem.

 

[Hinin]

Spoiler adan_eslavo England :

UM - Longbowman (replaces Crossbowman):

• 180 Production Cost
• 23 RCP
• 14 CP
• +1 Range
• -10% RCS on attack if enemy unit is adjacent (once again to reflect the battle of Agincourt, French knights in full armour had to slog through boggy marsh. Exhausted, many knights fell to lightly armoured crossbowmen firing at point-blank range)

UW - White Tower (replaces Hermitage):

• available at Banking
• requires Castle
• requires 30 Population
• +5 CP
• +3 Culture
• +1 Culture for every 3 Citizens
• 3 Great Works of Art or Artifact Slot (+5 Gold and +5 Culture when themed)
• +2 Culture to Castles, +2 Science to Zoos, +2 Gold from Constabularies, +2 Gold from Customs Houses, +2 Production from Arsenals
• -25% Spy Stealing Rate on Empire
• +1 Happiness for every Enemy Spy Killed (permanent)
• comes with 1 free artifact: The Crown Jewels

As we talked earlier, there will be problem with code for Longbowman's dynamic added RCS when attacking adjacent unit. This need to be reworked. I was thinking about giving -20% CS for adjacent units but it will be too OP, becuase every English unit will benefit that,

Spoiler Hinin England :

If I remember well, my original idea for the Longbowman was this :

Longbowmen (replaces Crossbowman) => I said Composite archer, but it is stupid
13 CP
24 RCP
Range (+1 range, -20 % RCS)
Formation (+10 % CS when defending in open terrain ; +25 % CS against mounted/armored units)
=> With these promotions, the unit has as much CS as a CBM against most units at range (the +1 Range giving it a real edge though), but is more resistant when attacked, especially against cavalry units (the unit having around 17 CS when defending against these in open terrain), and inflict severe damages to cavalry when attacking.
=> The other attributes (cost, presence of "Formation II") aren't talked about here, since I just wanted to focus on the main idea that is giving the unit the "Formation" promotion : it would be the most simple solution I think, and we can always try to find something else if it doesn't work.

For the Hermitage, I was thinking about making it UW similar to the Great Cothon in how it breaks the codes by being available far earlier :

White Tower (replaces Hermitage)
Available at Chivalry (instead of Architecture)
Requires a Castle (instead of an Opera House)
Require 30 Citizens in empire
+5 CP
+2 Culture ; +1 Culture for every 4 Citizens in the city
+1 Culture to Castles (Hence the absence of culture boost above) ; +3 Gold to Constabularies (so no upkeep for Constabularies in Empire) ; +3 Food to Arsenals (slight bonus toward having more specialists in the Industrial era : synergizes with the UB1) => All these buildings are defense buildings (England, de facto, would benefit from an ersatz version of the Japanese UA by being incentivized to build defensive buildings in the mid-game).
-25 % Spy Stealing Rate on Empire (effective even in the Medieval era against civilizations picking Statecraft)
+1 Happiness for every Enemy Spy Killed (permanent)
Comes with 1 free Artifact : The Crown Jewels (so bonus culture and tourism, hence once again the absence of bonus culture from pop. at that stage of the game)
Has 3 Great Work of Art/Artifact slots : +5 Gold and +5 Culture when themed

It is quite similar to what was suggested previously, but with some twists so that it is a little less powerful, but comes earlier.

I don't think bonus for only one city is interesting enough : at the stages of the game where the four buildings involved become available, a few more yield won't do much difference, and the Grand Cothon already gives meaningful global bonus to some buildings while also being available earlier. I think that the number of buildings involved in the bonus of the White Tower should be decreased, the bonus changed, but the idea kept.

edit : I don't think the having National Wonders available much earlier is a so powerful bonus in itself... That isn't something difficult to change in the game code if it proves unbalanced, is it ?

 

[pineappledan]

Formation (+10 % CS when defending in open terrain ; +25 % CS against mounted/armored units)

This could work, and would be a good reflection of Agincourt, but it couldn't be Formation because that promotion only affects CS; you want RCS.

Reduce CS to 22 (18 vs normal target). 24 is just way too much, and this new ranged formation is stronger than the original proposal)
New promotion: "Agincourt": +10%CS when defensing in open terrain; 25% RCS against mounted/armored units. Essentially a ranged formation promotion

edit : I don't think the having National Wonders available much earlier is a so powerful bonus in itself... That isn't something difficult to change in the game code if it proves unbalanced, is it ?

There's no point having an anti-spy wonder come before other civs have spies.
The building has 3 artifact slots and archaology wouldn't come for 4 techs. You then have a theming bonus that essentially comes 2 full tech eras too early
The yields are nice, but the timing just gets really wonky if the main mechanic and goal of the wonder doesn't come for another full era. Moving 4 tech levels is also far in excess of what carthage does, and I can't even imagine what this might do to balance.

Even if it was unlocked that early, why would anyone build it? 4 of its effects are completely unusable in the medieval. (constabulary/arsenal boost, spy defense, happiness on spy kills, artifact theming)
I get that putting the white tower further back is anachronistic, but I don't see much of a way around it

Edit: @adan_eslavo could you take a run at implementing flax at some point? Figs is now working in game and the flax spawning is a much simpler mechanic. As it is now, the Nilometer is OP compared to floating garden, and changing the building's effect will help make the two less comparable.

I added all the flax resources into this file, and added an example ggxml, which I didn't alter, which was missing previously. I also added BG's .modinfo file

We're nearing completion on this thing, just some stragglers left!

 

[adan_eslavo]

• But flax is tied to nilometer so I would need to incorporate Egypt into my modpack to test it out.
• Anyone know how to make this Crown Jewels spawn as free artefact? @FieryCharizard7 had the same problem and I cannot resolve it. I checked Burial Tomb but nothing there is tied to its artifacts and yet it is spawning them.

 

[Blue Ghost]

• But flax is tied to nilometer so I would need to incorporate Egypt into my modpack to test it out.

You can take Egypt. Our mods will be merged eventually, so there’s no harm in that.

 

[pineappledan]

Just download BG’s portion, replace the nilometre folder with that one, and if you get it working, rezip it and send to BG.

That reminds me, is the coup de grace working on khopesh, or is the bonus trying to give extra RCS, so it does nothing on khopesh? Might have to make some sort of melee equivalent

Could also check the Assyrian royal library, see how it is spawning the flood tablet GW

 

[adan_eslavo]

• With Great Work like in Royal Library there would be no problem, but we have great Artifact like Burial Tomb. And I cannot find any link to those artidacts in tables.
• I will take Egypt then after England.
• Updated new promotion name changes. Look through descriptions like always.

v21 out.

 

[Hinin]

This could work, and would be a good reflection of Agincourt, but it couldn't be Formation because that promotion only affects CS; you want RCS.

The fact is that the "Coup de Grace" promotion, which is supposed to only affect RCS (being a promotion for Archer/Skirmisher), works fine on the Kopesh, who attacks with CS. I just believed that it could work the other way around.

 

[adan_eslavo]

It would work because you define percentage, but description need to be different.

 

[pineappledan]

The fact is that the "Coup de Grace" promotion, which is supposed to only affect RCS (being a promotion for Archer/Skirmisher), works fine on the Kopesh

is that actually true? Coup de grace works as intended on khopesh? I haven’t tested that yet.

@Blue Ghost, I’m going to get you an icon for the exam hall tonight, and I was thinking I could update Carthage and Venice, and send those two you.

• I found a spelling error in venice’s Text
• I need to change carthage’s text descriptions and the sql on the tophet re. My conversation with @Ziad for the changes to tophet.

I don’t know how to do the lua for the new features on the tophet. I have never been able to find a useful instructional guide for civ 5 lua. The new features that have been asked for are relatively simple though. Could I count on you to make the lua?

• Double, or 1.5x the XP on purchased units. Whatever you think is fair.
  • on UnitPurchase, GetUnitDomain
  • If Domain_Land/Air/Sea/Float, GetUnitXP,
  • add (1*UnitXP) to unit
• Give small culture bonus on unit purchase in city.
  • On UnitPurchase, GetCurrentEra
  • On city, ChangeCulture (CurrentEra*5)