6 grams: C3C - Diety, with AI Armies (Maybe)

[Tone]

I shall try and post screen shots of the Sumerian and the unclaimed iron but I'm not too hot at posting attachments (as perhaps KB can verify from our SGOTM experiences in the past )

Sumerian iron is deep in their territory. We would not be able to reach it without several wars IMO.

The unclaimed iron by Greece/Egypt is three/four units from three different towns and would be under extreme cultural pressure. Since I spotted the iron you can see that it now falls under the influence of an Egyptian town so if we want it we need to get a move on and be prepared to rush some culture there. If the Greek borders expand anymore we will be unable to claim this without declaring war!

Edit: ...and it would be of no use until we get Astronomy!

 

[Tone]

 

[Tone]

 

[M60A3TTS]

Since the Sumerian iron is so close to the coast, what about an amphibious assault as opposed to an overland excursion?

 

[grahamiam]

flips risk would be severe. could we hold onto it long enough to build samurai? doubtful. also, the indians are being completely swallowed so we have to do something quick, otherwise we'll face everything. very tough situation, and Kish will be a tough nut to crack.

however, it does looks like archers and EW's are the main units. if we get some leader luck, we could cut the Sumerian empire in half, and then just swallow the pieces. Maybe we need to ally the Egyptians as well so they can make some half-assed landings to divert thier attention.

 

[M60A3TTS]

I got it. Playing tomorrow.

 

[Tone]

The Indians did not seem to lose much ground during my turns so maybe the flow is slowing. I did see mostly archers but then the MDIs started to roll. We could always place our warrior on the road connecting the two to slow the war down if we thought that this was beneficial. Tricky call IMO as we don't really want the war to stop (do we?) but India could help give us a leg up through the MA as they are not as advanced as the others.

 

[M60A3TTS]

Looked over the save and we are challenged in trying to help India now. We have 6 horsemen but our core is not being developed, and we still have Kyoto producing settlers. I see a lot of worker mining going on in near the icepack and they really need to be getting Kyoto up to 15 spt so we can have a horse every other turn from there. Likewise, Osaka needs serious development.

If in fact there is only the one Sumerian iron on this continent, any plan against them should include sending a force by sea to cut that source. We won't fare well with the Sumerian MI and knights that their iron source will provide. If we do nothing more than cut the road, he will be back to archer/LBs, and we can deal with that situation a lot better.

Will send some workers back to get the shield count up on our best cities. We are going to have Republic in 10. Is that the government we're going with, and should we revolt as soon as we get it? That would mean we really can't fight Sumeria then.

 

[grahamiam]

I agree with that plan. Small force to cut the iron by sea, large force via land perhaps? that would limit the amount of galleys required, letting the core focus on unit building. Iron being on a mountain means that a few spears with archer or cat support should be able to hold off MDI's for a while. Do the Sumerians have horses?

Not sure if we want to wait on revolting as we really need to get out of despot ASAP. I take it by your post that we don't have enough luxes to fight in a Republic, so, if you can pull a trade for Monarchy, by all means lets do it and revolt.

edit: and i agree with getting the core mined instead of the crappy tundra. that really seems a no-brainer and i'm suprised the save was found that way. Also suprising is that the plains near Izumo are not irrigated, even though when I passed the save, I had 2 workers extending the water out to that area why was that changed? seems like another no-brainer (or is the graphics mod confusing me?)

 

[Kaiser_Berger]

I irrigated one of the plains near Izumo, so water is now available there. Anything after that was not my call, IIRC.

I agree on taking a bite out of Sumeria before they get too large. Taking out the iron seems a feasible and smart plan as well.

 

[grahamiam]

I irrigated one of the plains near Izumo, so water is now available there. Anything after that was not my call, IIRC.

ok, great. guess the graphics mod was confusing me

 

[Tone]

Plains by Izumo: why do they all need to be irrigated now? The second tile will be irrigated at the end of this turn but the town will not grow for another 5 as previous builds from this town have been workers thus Izumo is working fully developed tiles and so are the other towns in this area-this was not the case when I took over as tiles were being worked that were in the process of being developed. We are now in a situation where new citizens will be put onto a fully developed tile if the workers stay around here. The water is there and grass tiles were re-mined by KB. I then developed the town with large population (Kagoshima) which needed urgent development before the size one towns. This also applies to the NW area although it is slightly behind schedule but it was difficult to get to several towns that were unconnected.

Mining tundra: ??? I think you need to look at the save! No workers are mining tundra! I continued the mining of grass to the north of tundra and then the workers have been sent to road towards the south. On reflection the towns bordering the tundra are probably too corrupt to benefit fully from this so I admit probably not the best use of our workers here. However IMO we will need those roads if we are to keep the towns down there as well as get the settlers there quickly.

Osaka: during my turns I increased shield output from 5 to 7 by mining the two grass tiles. Yes it does need more development but this is all we can get from this town at the moment unless we increase lux to get the scientist working or start irrigating grass with Republic.

I agree with developing Kyoto but at the time I took the save over my instructions were to grab more land and hence more settlers were needed(and I didn't disagree with this). Kyoto was pumping out settlers and the tiles for this purpose were fully developed. However at the time surrounding towns were working some undeveloped tiles but now all our core towns are working tiles that have been mined/irrigated as I took the view that tiles that will be worked in the future are not as important as tiles that are being worked at the moment. There are workers in the area that can attend to future development.

BTW if we are going to stop grabbing land then I think we should settle a couple more towns in our core to use the tiles around our capital more.

 

[grahamiam]

re Izumo: ok, ok, i just don't see the irrigation there in your pic. the graphics mod made it look to me like it wasn't done. thanks for doing it, and your logic is sound

I see a lot of worker mining going on in near the icepack and they really need to be getting Kyoto up to 15 spt so we can have a horse every other turn from there.

ok, i read this as mining tundra. my fault for the misunderstanding. however, i do agree that roading toward that area is all that is needed. mining the grass won't help.
and i do agree that sending workers back towards the core is urgent so we can get ready for war.

BTW if we are going to stop grabbing land then I think we should settle a couple more towns in our core to use the tiles around our capital more.

well, we're trying to start grabbing Sumerian land if you have some spots that you think are good for new towns around the core, please share

I don't want to speak for M60, but I think his general comments were in regards to our war readiness (or lack thereof). He was just stating his plan to get the core up to warspeed and pointing out the towns he would key on.

 

[M60A3TTS]

Yes, I try not to make waves here, but am simply saying if we want to fight Sumeria that we should get more production by developing the terrain around Kyoto than mining the no-shield grassland in towns with corruption. I said on or near the ice because I didn't have the save in front of me when I wrote this. Road builds I absolutely agree we need to accelerate the movement of settlers east.

 

[Tone]

Apologies-a bad day at work

 

[grahamiam]

Apologies-a bad day at work

no problem, we all need to blow off steam once in a while and i see what you mean about fitting another town or 2 near the core. Lots of land between Kagoshima and Tokyo for 1 town and then another NE of Kagoshima and NW of Izuma. both coastal so both can build galleys while the others build units.

 

[Wotan]

I have had a quick look at the save and agree with M60 re. the situation. War on Sumeria is the only real road forward in this game. But, we need to plan for the Iron to be cut. And the Japanese nation is far from on a War footing. A dozen Chariots to upgrade = 360 gold. Plus we need to finish Republic and switch government before starting that war. I just hope the 15+ turns are more than India can manage on their own. During these 15+ turns, how many HMs can we build? We will have to fight with inferior units but hopefully we will be able to mass enough HMs to get to the Iron.

 

[M60A3TTS]

I just hope the 15+ turns are more than India can manage on their own. During these 15+ turns, how many HMs can we build? We will have to fight with inferior units but hopefully we will be able to mass enough HMs to get to the Iron.

If we revolt in 10, then we would not have any production until we came out of anarchy, so we're looking at a smaller production window.

 

[M60A3TTS]

The save at 150BC

IBT- Well Sumeria didn’t wait long to hit us up for 20 gold. I pay him off. And they’re building KT.

Turn 1 (330BC)- Some worker stuff

IBT- Sumeria loses a couple units to India. Dutch building KT. Tokyo temple>horse.

Turn 2 (310BC) More worker stuff.

IBT- Edo settler>harbor, Kyoto and Osaka settler> horse.

Turn 3 (290BC) And more worker stuff.

IBT- Egypt building KT. Sumeria starts Leos. Kagoshima horse>temple.

Turn 4 (270BC) Wish I had more to report than …worker stuff

IBT- Sumerian MI knocks off Indian archer.

Turn 5 (250BC) Republic now drops to 1 turn. Trying to still get settlers east. Found Suo and another town.

IBT- Republic in, science off. Dutch starts Sistines. India must have just learned Republic before we got there. Dutch finish Great Library. French working on KT, Sun’s Leos.

Turn 6 (230BC) Darn Egyptian settler beat us to a fishing village. Don’t see any good options at the moment, so revolt to get us out of despotism. We’ll use that religious trait and be a Republic in 2. Need a couple clowns and taxmen.

IBT- Saw a big Sumerian SoD kill an Indian archer and head back to their town of Karachi.

Turn 7 (210BC) Worker stuff.

IBT- Egypt finishes KT.

Turn 8 (190BC) Bizen founded. I forgot that going to a Republic early can be a costly move. Have to hire a scientist and turn science off, then disband a couple units to get our cash stabilized. Lux rate to 10%. Change a couple builds to markets.

IBT- France building Sistines.

Turn 9 (170BC) Echizen founded. Kyoto needs a taxman.

IBT- Indians still appear to be holding on.

Turn 10 (150BC) Have to put lux to 20%, a single scientist in Toyama. And done.

Unit costs are killing us, at 60 gpt to support 20 units over the max. A lot of them are workers, so we’re at least getting stuff built out. Two settlers out east should alleviate the unit costs a bit more, as well as the markets in the pipeline. But it definitely puts a damper on military expansion. Looks like Kolhapur flipped back to India.

We currently have 20 towns.

 

[MailMan]

preturn:
MM cities. many tiles are left on low shield / low commerce from the anarchy period.
increase gpt from 3 to 11.

IBT - Sumer build Leo's

1. 130BC workers actions.

IBT - france complete Sun Tzu's
Sumer complete Sistine.

2. 110BC workers actions.

IBT - lost curragh on ocean. I tryied to get it home for upgrade. well +2gpt.
Sumer is overpowering india.

3-4 90BC-70BC workers actions.

5. 50BC. founded a town. our support cost is now 42 gpt (severl towns expanded to cities as well)

IBT - dutch knows astronomy and state the observatory.

6. 30BC.
trade silks to dutch for 16g + 10gpt

7. 10BC. founded a town

IBT - india our down to 3 cities.

8 10AD. nothing much

IBT dutch need 33g to do something. I give them

9-10 30AD-50AD. nothing much.

summery:
pretty boring set of turns.
concentraded on infrastructure. in the several last turns started to produce military units again.
I suggest that towns without barracks should produce catapults (we need many of those) low production towns should produce spears. high production town should produce horses.
We may be able to start attacking in 10-20 turns.

The SAVE