7.8 quake hits China

[aelf]

China's response to natural disasters is remarkably quick if you consider all the factors at play here in this earthquake. That can't be denied. Frankly, China has had a very long history of natural disasters and every ruler/regime which cared enough about staying power would move as quickly as they could. And frankly, with all of PRC's resources and its tendency to have natural disasters, it would be very, very disastrous if it had anything less than one of the best. Of course, there hasn't been that many major natural disasters in the developed countries to compare them side by side but...

China has had a long history of dealing with natural disasters on a scale unimaginable to the majority of countries in this world. It is after all the world's most populous country. Being a One-Party state concerned with keeping up its image among its citizens does not hurt the PRC's ability to throw massive amounts of resources and manpower to help out those affected by natural disasters. How is that exactly jingle in anyway or form?

So, anything else besides these speculations? I often hear how good so-and-so country is at something based purely on such reasons in coffeeshop talk.

You know very well that Chinese political power has never expressly been maintained through the approval of the public, even though it might seem to have a few times been lost that way (with other factors in play, of course). Whether or not the government cares about the plight of the people seems to depend its benevolence. The rioting farmers who are demanding their rights in the countryside, for example, do not seem to illicit much concern from the CCP beyond a few high-profile graft charges (show trials? scapegoating?) and comments that improvements need to be made in equality; as if the CCP is not supposed to stand for equality in the first place, which ironically makes such comments seem mere flippancy, and as if it did not partly create and does not maintain the existing patrimonial system

A denial of such facts is pure nationalistic jingle.

 

[lutzj]

That wouldn't work, because you have people like me who would be throwing fists and chairs at people to get to the door first.

... thus promoting natural selection. It's better than everyone patiently waiting to be crushed.

 

[Shaihulud]

So, anything else besides these speculations? I often hear how good so-and-so country is at something based purely on such reasons in coffeeshop talk.

You know very well that Chinese political power has never expressly been maintained through the approval of the public, even though it might seem to have a few times been lost that way (with other factors in play, of course). Whether or not the government cares about the plight of the people seems to depend its benevolence. The rioting farmers who are demanding their rights in the countryside, for example, do not seem to illicit much concern from the CCP beyond a few high-profile graft charges (show trials? scapegoating?) and comments that improvements need to be made in equality; as if the CCP is not supposed to stand for equality in the first place, which ironically makes such comments seem mere flippancy, and as if it did not partly create and does not maintain the existing patrimonial system

A denial of such facts is pure nationalistic jingle.

Well this earthquake was one example, there are others of course, and the response was quick, no? Frankly the rest of your statement was so much angsty confusion I couldn't reach any conclusion on what you are trying to put out. Is your agenda against the speed of Chinas mobilisation? Positive statement on China? Authoritianism?

I think that you should stop attacking people from other countries than China as being "Nationalistic" as you are doing everytime someone disagrees with you.

 

[Stolen Rutters]

I can simply state that Burma responds very rapidly to disasters since it doesn't need outside aid, unlike even the USA. So what merit does my statement have?

Oh, well. A blind nationalist has come forth to reveal himself as... a blind nationalist, with no powers of comprehension whatsoever. I'm surprised you want to be complicit in it.

Sorry, I read the thread wrong. I thought the gentleman who lashed out was under stress, having people he cared about inside of a disaster zone, trying to convince himself that it would be alright by reasoning through how the response would unfold. He made it seem like people were snapping at him, when he has a real concern that he has no control over. I tried to be that person to say, "It's alright".

You normally comfort someone who may still be in a little shock with the situation, not call them a liar. I had friends who had just moved to Michigan from New Orleans a couple months before the Lower 9th was submerged, and that first week they were trying to nail down where their family was, who got out and who didn't... that's a pretty ugly scene to watch. ...and Katrina was less than two thousand dead.

I guess I read the thread wrong.

 

[aelf]

Well this earthquake was one example, there are others of course, and the response was quick, no? Frankly the rest of your statement was so much angsty confusion I couldn't reach any conclusion on what you are trying to put out. Is your agenda against the speed of Chinas mobilisation? Positive statement on China? Authoritianism?

Angsty confusion? Maybe you just need to educate yourself appropriately before attempting to discuss stuff like this. What a fine day it is when someone comes up to you with nothing insightful to say about the matter and tell you that historical and political analyses is "angsty confusion"

I think that you should stop attacking people from other countries than China as being "Nationalistic" as you are doing everytime someone disagrees with you.

Nope. I believe I call people nationalistic appropriately, i.e. certainly not all the time.

Do you actually have anything to say?

 

[Rik Meleet]

There are 630.000 more people in danger if the Zipingpu dam, which was cracked by the earthquake, breaks.

Yahoo news

 

[JtheJackal]

Am I right in thinking this would be the first major earthquake in the age of everyone having video cameras (like cell phone cameras), in a place that a number of people have cameras?

I don't remember any previous earthquake having personal video cameras taking footage during and right after the earthquake before. Usually its just been security cameras, or things being filmed before the earthquake started.

 

[aelf]

Sorry, I read the thread wrong. I thought the gentleman who lashed out was under stress, having people he cared about inside of a disaster zone, trying to convince himself that it would be alright by reasoning through how the response would unfold. He made it seem like people were snapping at him, when he has a real concern that he has no control over. I tried to be that person to say, "It's alright".

You normally comfort someone who may still be in a little shock with the situation, not call them a liar. I had friends who had just moved to Michigan from New Orleans a couple months before the Lower 9th was submerged, and that first week they were trying to nail down where their family was, who got out and who didn't... that's a pretty ugly scene to watch. ...and Katrina was less than two thousand dead.

I guess I read the thread wrong.

I wasn't talking about the people affected by disaster at all. I was merely remarking on another poster's remarks that China's response is always swift and probably superior to other more developed countries like the US, which, like a lot of his statements about China, I wish to challenge. Calling his bluff, so to speak.

Maybe I missed something about very strict political correctness in this thread.

 

[Stolen Rutters]

I wasn't talking about the people affected by disaster at all. I was merely remarking on another poster's remarks that China's response is always swift and probably superior to other more developed countries like the US, which, like a lot of his statements about China, I wish to challenge. Calling his bluff, so to speak.

Maybe I missed something about very strict political correctness in this thread.

No, no. Keep it up. I don't know that I have ever seen the poster's other statements about China you are referring to. I missed that part... a total mea culpa. I only have this thread to work from. (and really only the first page and last couple pages... I rarely give long threads more than a cursory read through. As a rule, I try to post on the most recent page or two. No sense digging up really old sub-topics.)

Think of it as me walking into the middle of a conversation, and commenting on the last thing that was said.

 

[Abaddon]

Numbers continue to climb rapidly

 

[Rik Meleet]

Numbers continue to climb rapidly

However, the danger of the dam-burst seems gone. The Chinese army have sealed the cracks.

 

[alex994]

You know very well that Chinese political power has never expressly been maintained through the approval of the public, even though it might seem to have a few times been lost that way (with other factors in play, of course). Whether or not the government cares about the plight of the people seems to depend its benevolence. The rioting farmers who are demanding their rights in the countryside, for example, do not seem to illicit much concern from the CCP beyond a few high-profile graft charges (show trials? scapegoating?) and comments that improvements need to be made in equality; as if the CCP is not supposed to stand for equality in the first place, which ironically makes such comments seem mere flippancy, and as if it did not partly create and does not maintain the existing patrimonial system

A denial of such facts is pure nationalistic jingle.

The rioting farmers aren't of much concern because they do not affect the greater majority of Chinese, who as surprising as it may seem, actually support the PRC because of the economic progress though the rioting farmers goes back to the inevitable problem of urban vs. rural but that's for another day. Bungling the disaster relief operation however, would be something that would change the opinion of the vast majority of Chinese because of the tendency to have natural disasters in China since they would all start panicking over what would happen if they were caught in a disaster zone. It is not out of benevolence that the CCP does it, but out of sheer pragmatism.

wasn't talking about the people affected by disaster at all. I was merely remarking on another poster's remarks that China's response is always swift and probably superior to other more developed countries like the US, which, like a lot of his statements about China, I wish to challenge. Calling his bluff, so to speak.

Comparing the PRC's reaction speed to the last major natural disaster (Katrina) in the United States with our ridiculous amounts of red tape, with the most recent information given to me, I would say I would rather be in a natural disaster zone in the PRC and then in the United States. That may change if, God Forbid, there is another major natural disaster strikes the US and the government responds much more quickly. Until then, I don't have much faith in the abilities of the government here.

 

[Huayna Capac357]

Let me reiterate my sympathy for the injured and the families of the 16665 who died.

Further proof that this was caused by Satan : 16665 people died.

 

[lutzj]

No. God loves China as he does everywhere. The devil is responsible.

The devil is like the downstairs neighbor who bangs on the ceiling just as you're beginning to have a good time. Some of history's worst earthquakes affected places nearing their zenith: Pompeii and San Fransisco's major earthquakes are two examples I can pull off my head.

 

[aelf]

The rioting farmers aren't of much concern because they do not affect the greater majority of Chinese, who as surprising as it may seem, actually support the PRC because of the economic progress though the rioting farmers goes back to the inevitable problem of urban vs. rural but that's for another day. Bungling the disaster relief operation however, would be something that would change the opinion of the vast majority of Chinese because of the tendency to have natural disasters in China since they would all start panicking over what would happen if they were caught in a disaster zone. It is not out of benevolence that the CCP does it, but out of sheer pragmatism.

Comparing the PRC's reaction speed to the last major natural disaster (Katrina) in the United States with our ridiculous amounts of red tape, with the most recent information given to me, I would say I would rather be in a natural disaster zone in the PRC and then in the United States. That may change if, God Forbid, there is another major natural disaster strikes the US and the government responds much more quickly. Until then, I don't have much faith in the abilities of the government here.

Right. So apparently in the US, where the government rules by the sanction of the public, it doesn't matter that the government bungles up, but in China, where the government does not rule by the sanction of the public, it matters very much. Do you see where I'm going with your logic?

I still think selective memory seems to be at play. And, if you do like the PRC so much, or at least more than the US, why haven't you moved to the former?

 

[Ecofarm]

It always amazes me how people are prepared to turn almost anything into a who's got the biggest dick competition. Comparing casualties, that's just ridiculous. God, who cares really, that's so arbitrary?

Do you have a clue? Someone suggested that we compare the government response of the US and China, presuming that the US was incompetant in comparison. Fine; however, we must examine some things that make the situations different. First, the number of casualities determines how many troops are needed, in general; therefor, one could expect a far greater deployment from China than was necessary for Katrina, especailly considering the size of the army in comparison.

You see, China is only really good at moving people out of the way. They can demand you do it now or be shot. That doesn't help alot in a surprise event and I do not expect any spectacular effort after the fact. Note, one similarity being that the levy was not expected to break.

Lastly, big dick contest vs. Chinese? C'mon.

I'm not specifically talking about the military sizes, but even then the Chinese didn't throw the entire army at Sichuan province only I believe, from the last time I read something on the topic, only around 50k being deployed. I'm merely comparing the speed in which the two events have been handled so far by their respective governments.

If someone is specifically talking about comparing disaster relief by two different governments, I think the number of people supposedly at the government's use is relevant.

 

[eoc]

aboad aids to the quake list by the time 11:06(beijing time) may 15.

Japan: 500,000,000(JPY) and special of rescue team
Saudi Arabia:50,000,000($) and 10,000,000($)goods
Russia: two aerotransports have arrived and more coming in(exactly report will be out when the transport over)
UK: 1,000,000(GBP/pounds)
Italy: a field hospital, medical instruments, tents and more coming(exactly report will be out when the transport over)
German: 500,000(EUR)
USA: 500,000($)
U.N Children funs: 300,000($)
French: 250,000(EUR) goods
poland: 100,000($)

thanks to all those helping and helped in the quake. and special thanks to a folk volunteer team from USA(and I am surprised that the leader as a white can speak Chinese so good)

bye all.

 

[Sidhe]

Do you have a clue? Someone suggested that we compare the government response of the US and China, presuming that the US was incompetant in comparison. Fine; however, we must examine some things that make the situations different. First, the number of casualities determines how many troops are needed, in general; therefor, one could expect a far greater deployment from China than was necessary for Katrina, especailly considering the size of the army in comparison.

You see, China is only really good at moving people out of the way. They can demand you do it now or be shot. That doesn't help alot in a surprise event and I do not expect any spectacular effort after the fact. Note, one similarity being that the levy was not expected to break.

Lastly, big dick contest vs. Chinese? C'mon.

Yep basically a who's got the biggest dick competition or some form of top trumps: ah nah speed 212 MPH. The US is the gratetst! Why you would chose a fiasco like that to highlight how great the US is is beyond me. And why you would compare population statistics to China? Is akin to saying my penis is 18 inches. Simple as that. Are you trying to point out that China isn't as technologically advanced as the US, or do you have something other than an asanine point to make? And do you think anyone cares about such things anyway? Quite apart from the fact that the two countries aren't comparable, and China obviously did alot better than the US did? It seems to me your reaching quite badly when you need to use Katrina as an example, especially when you seem to think that the number of people killed is some sort of points system?

What's important is not casualties it's response time and effectiveness of relief (was the response to the incident adequate?) Obviously. Anything else is just tadger metrics. Did the US have the manpower to provide an adequate response, of course they bloody did? Are you having a giraffe?

 

[Shaihulud]

Angsty confusion? Maybe you just need to educate yourself appropriately before attempting to discuss stuff like this. What a fine day it is when someone comes up to you with nothing insightful to say about the matter and tell you that historical and political analyses is "angsty confusion"

I haven't seen any "historical or political analysis" as such from you in this thread.Only what you replied to Alex "Nationalistic blathering", if this isn't a fine example of coffeeshop talk I don't know what is, and if you were referring to the treatment of China towards marginalised citizens. Safety of people in general is purchased by their percieved economic value to the state, this disaster is one that is important politically and economically to China, of course they will move heaven and earth as a reply to the Quake. therefore your understanding of the situation is a fail.

Nope. I believe I call people nationalistic appropriately, i.e. certainly not all the time.

Do you actually have anything to say?

What? The disaster was a large one over an area and the very next day the army was mobilized, rescuing people. You are the one in fact that should be providing evidence that China was incompetent in emergency management, and I don't think that the breadbasket of US is China.

 

[Oruc]

Right. So apparently in the US, where the government rules by the sanction of the public, it doesn't matter that the government bungles up, but in China, where the government does not rule by the sanction of the public, it matters very much. Do you see where I'm going with your logic?

I still think selective memory seems to be at play. And, if you do like the PRC so much, or at least more than the US, why haven't you moved to the former?

He hasn't moved their because he's like 13 or something