China hits back with report on U.S. human rights record

[Farm Boy]

What is amway?

It's a pyramid scheme that sells home products. Kinda like Mary Kay or Tupperware. It's fairly durable so it's probably less pyramid scheme-y than a lot of things like that but the whole skuzzy "party invitation" thing still applies. Like your new neighbors are super friendly and want to invite you over for dinner to make new friends and 20 minutes in you are fully engaged in a super high pressure sales pitch where they've already hoodwinked you into feeling a sense of obligation since you are in their home eating their food.

 

[ReindeerThistle]

Think what you want. I do. I also come and go as I please. I exercise my First Amendment right to association.

 

[Farm Boy]

Think what you want. I do. I also come and go as I please. I exercise my First Amendment right to association.

Look, I'm not trying to be hostile here, I'm just seeking some clarification to what you've already said you've already explained? But yes, not giving a rat's rear about what some midwesterner on the internet thinks about your "pseudo cult" is entirely your perogative! I'm certainly not calling for government censure of you where your First Amendment rights would plausibly need to be invoked.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

It's a pyramid scheme that sells home products. Kinda like Mary Kay or Tupperware. It's fairly durable so it's probably less pyramid scheme-y than a lot of things like that but the whole skuzzy "party invitation" thing still applies. Like your new neighbors are super friendly and want to invite you over for dinner to make new friends and 20 minutes in you are fully engaged in a super high pressure sales pitch where they've already hoodwinked you into feeling a sense of obligation since you are in their home eating their food.

Oh I see. It is even worse when the people throwing the party are your relatives. Then it is just a familial financial transfer mechanism where the poorer members of a family can get the better off ones to give them money. Sure, they are technically selling stuff but they wouldn't be able to sell hardly any of it if it wasn't to family members. ---> I speak from experience

 

[Akka]

Well, China has documented this using USA statistics and I have documented China's achievements using UN statistics. Does anyone want to present any EVIDENCE of what it you are calling "human righs abuses" in China? It is NOT enough to say "everyone knows this," or "it's commonly known, balh, blah, blah."

Because if YOU can't offer something material on this, then it is not like a murderer pulling his knife out of an old lady, it's more like the old lady (China) pulling the murderer's (US State Dept) knife out and saying "are you know going to yell at me for getting blood on the carpet?"

Sorry, I don't find any interest in contests of playing dumb, especially when the evidences about China's dubious records are plastered everywhere from countless sources.

I'm not going to bother buying a camera and taking shots to prove that the grass is green simply because you thought it would be fun to pretend that grass is blue.

 

[ReindeerThistle]

Think what you want. I do. I also come and go as I please. I exercise my First Amendment right to association.

@Farmboy. The above is my clarification and "cult" accusations are inherently hostile, but I was not trying to be unfair to you. I was also not trying to blow you off. I do not separate how I think from what I am and given the fact that what I described was also interpreted as communal living and living off of the good graces of others -- far less inflammatory accusations -- I chose the answer abovr.

 

[ReindeerThistle]

Sorry, I don't find any interest in contests of playing dumb, especially when the evidences about China's dubious records are plastered everywhere from countless sources.

I'm not going to bother buying a camera and taking shots to prove that the grass is green simply because you thought it would be fun to pretend that grass is blue.

Given your signature, your posture is not surprising. You gave me exactly the answer I expected and I am arguing borh the criteria and the data. Ajidica thusafar has provided the most DATA an the proviso that China is improving in the things he cited. Just because something is everywhere does not make it true.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Everytime a thread shows up you will apply your "logic" and by the end of it all; the one true culprit remains and 99% of the time it is USA.

What utter nonsense. I never claimed or even insinuated that was ever the case, much less this time. The human rights records of all countries should be openly discussed. To claim otherwise is completely inane.

I am not the one engaging in double standards here.

You most certainly are by claiming that China's reiteration of basic facts known to most everybody is "only meant to hurt" and is "propaganda", while not using the same standards to judge others who do the same. Every country should be held accountable for its acts, just just those who are supposedly hostile based on your own personal opinions.

Apparently unlike you, I am more than willing to have the US government practice what it preaches in many foreign countries for a welcome change. I think it certainly should hold itself to the same standards which it tries to hold only certain other countries, while giving its "friends" like Saudi Arabia and Israel a free pass much of the time.

 

[Farm Boy]

@Farmboy. The above is my clarification and "cult" accusations are inherently hostile, but I was not trying to be unfair to you. I was also not trying to blow you off. I do not separate how I think from what I am and given the fact that what I described was also interpreted as communal living and living off of the good graces of others -- far less inflammatory accusations -- I chose the answer abovr.

Cults are just insular. They aren't innately harmful unless they seek to remove agency and will from the actions of their members. You say you work to help the most disadvantaged. That's awesome thing to do. It's also a really vague thing to say. It's the evasiveness that's triggering the mental warnings. "I've already explained the answer but I'm not going to explain the answer" - that sort of response is generally what I associate with somebody that is trying to sell me something who doesn't really want me looking too closely at the actual product or service. Like I said though, I'm willing to take your word on it for the purposes of this forum. I just thought you might like the feedback on how the conversation was looking. Obviously you didn't like it and felt threatened by my big bad self if you think you need to reference your Constitutional rights. Which is a shame and I apologize, but it raises my mental hackles just a little bit more. For whatever that is worth.

 

[Akka]

Given your signature, your posture is not surprising.

Thanks for proving the uselessness to participate in troll thread

 

[ReindeerThistle]

Cults are just insular. They aren't innately harmful unless they seek to remove agency and will from the actions of their members. You say you work to help the most disadvantaged. That's awesome thing to do. It's also a really vague thing to say. It's the evasiveness that's triggering the mental warnings. "I've already explained the answer but I'm not going to explain the answer" - that sort of response is generally what I associate with somebody that is trying to sell me something who doesn't really want me looking too closely at the actual product or service. Like I said though, I'm willing to take your word on it for the purposes of this forum. I just thought you might like the feedback on how the conversation was looking. Obviously you didn't like it and felt threatened by my big bad self if you think you need to reference your Constitutional rights. Which is a shame and I apologize, but it raises my mental hackles just a little bit more. For whatever that is worth.

Now, that I can appreciate. In answer to your question, amongst the many things I do are to train otjer bolinteers in distributing emergency food to members, organize attorneys to give legal advice and doctors to see peope and provide medical care on a non- emergency basis. I also advocate for people to keep their lights and heat on. We also take action to protest rate hikes and or other harmful legislation. The key thing is self-help, not charity and people sign as members because it keeps the government out of their hair. And the help that members receive frees them up to help the next person who comes along.

We do not use the internet to organize and we do not have a web site -- it is easier to explain when you can see it. I thank you for pointing out how it looks, because I look at it totally differently because I deal with it everyday -- and it helps to get your perspective.

 

[Formaldehyde]

I can see why selflessly volunteering to try to make the world a better place would be treated with so much animosity and hostility. Perhaps you should try doing so as a devout right-wing Christian missionary instead.

 

[Lone Wolf]

I find Formaldehyde expressing sympathies for ReindeerThistle's organization to be amusing.

 

[Farm Boy]

Now, that I can appreciate. In answer to your question, amongst the many things I do are to train otjer bolinteers in distributing emergency food to members, organize attorneys to give legal advice and doctors to see peope and provide medical care on a non- emergency basis. I also advocate for people to keep their lights and heat on. We also take action to protest rate hikes and or other harmful legislation. The key thing is self-help, not charity and people sign as members because it keeps the government out of their hair. And the help that members receive frees them up to help the next person who comes along.

We do not use the internet to organize and we do not have a web site -- it is easier to explain when you can see it. I thank you for pointing out how it looks, because I look at it totally differently because I deal with it everyday -- and it helps to get your perspective.

Cool. I'll mentally categorize that as something similar to a church then? Those sort of actions seem to be the better secular aspects of a well-functioning and healthy congregation. I can respect those for what they are even if their creed differs from my own. That would be roughly the same if the creed was political rather than ecclesiastical. It's probably open to the same sorts of criticism, but, I'll think you'll find I'm not that particularly opposed to those sorts of organizations. To carry the trite Christian example I think it's bad that groups that practice adult group/polygamous marriage feel(perhaps wisely) that they need to keep a low profile. I only really have problems with the groups that use the opportunity of being under the radar to do things like marry off and fornicate with 14 year old girls.

 

[Borachio]

I've read more about natlfed/cpusa(p) on the Internet.

Abfiudsbofiasdubfaowmygoshwowjustwow.

Have you got any good links? I've read the wiki entry.

 

[ReindeerThistle]

I can see why selflessly volunteering to try to make the world a better place would be treated with so much animosity and hostility. Perhaps you should try doing so as a devout right-wing Christian missionary instead.

QFT

My group isn't even on the internet. Now I can see why.

EDIT: Come see me at my new Tavern Thread: Why People Who Try to Make Change Get Attacked

Let's focus on the topic of Human Rights, shall we?

 

[Borachio]

Are you one of these off the grid types?

No. Surely not. Else you wouldn't be here.

 

[Farm Boy]

I can see why selflessly volunteering to try to make the world a better place would be treated with so much animosity and hostility. Perhaps you should try doing so as a devout right-wing Christian missionary instead.

QFT

My group isn't even on the internet. Now I can see why.

I thought we were getting that sorted. It seemed to be a presentation thing? We can fill in any number of reasons a group might want to be off the radar. Maybe they have a political affiliation that isn't popular. Maybe they help ex-convicts who desperately need help reintegrating but helping released sex-offenders(just an example) collects hatred. Keeping a low profile is going to innately come with some Public Relations costs though. Right-wing militias like to keep off the radar. Fundamentalist sects like to keep off the radar. Tax evasion tends to try and stay off the radar. When people don't know what you are doing they tend to fear the worst, even if it happens to not be deserved.

 

[AlpsStranger]

Are you one of these off the grid types?

Nobody is off the grid, they only think they are. There is no "off the grid" anymore.

 

[Borachio]

Well, there's a guy who, for a fee, promises to be able to get your profile minimized, and, where this is impossible, can sow disinformation so that tracking you becomes very much more difficult.