[DLL] (7-NS) Units keep up in experience when their origin city's starting XP increases

[Legen]

Proposal

• Whenever a city's starting XP increases (e.g. building a Barracks), all owned units previously trained in that city earn enough experience to match the new starting XP value if their current XP is lower.
  • Example 1: an unit from Edinburg has 25 XP and that city finishes building an Armory (going from 15 starting XP to 35 XP). The unit's experience goes from 25 XP to 35 XP.
  • Example 2: another unit from that same Edinburg has 45 XP instead. When the Armory is finished, the unit remains at 45 XP.
• Units purchased with Gold gain a plague promotion that prevents them from benefitting from the proposed XP update effect.
  • Does not apply to units from Authority's Finisher, nor to the German Landsknecht.
  • Freedom's Draft Registration negates this plague promotion.

Spoiler Particular cases to keep track of when implementing and testing :

• Brandenburg Gate adds +15 XP starting experience to all cities, not just to the city where it is built.
• Pentagon adds +20 starting XP specifically to Air units, and only in the city it is built.
• Autocracy's Elite Forces adds +15 starting XP to all cities.
• Assyria increases starting XP in all cities from earning Great Works of Writing, thanks to their UB. And their UB comes with a free Great Work of Writing.
• Captured units are a special case, as their current owner may not be the owner of the city they were trained from. The intention is that an XP increase from a city should only affect a unit if both the city and the unit are owned by the same player.

Rationale

Right now, units spend ages without updating their training as their society evolves. You can upgrade their equipment and teach them how to use it, but apparently, they're too stubborn to undergo new training methods when your civilization figures out how to set up a Military Academy.

There's the fun aspect as well; I'm sure many wish they could pick those old units and keep them updated with whatever XP source you unlocked, be an Armory, a Teocalli, or a Brandenburg Gate. With this proposal, those old units can remain relevant with newly trained ones, and there's less pressure to refrain from producing units before you unlock an incoming source of XP.


Amendment I: added a plague promotion for units purchased with Gold, and the restrictions to this promotion.

 

[Heinz_Guderian]

I like this proposal a lot. Currently I get a situation where I want to delete old units that hasnt gained a ton of experience through battle because they are just obsolete now that I can build units with a lot more experience. I also like that you thought of not giving them a straight up bonus to their current exp but instead setting them to the experience they would have gained if they were freshly created (unless they actually have gained more from battle already)

 

[AndreyK]

I think that is not good, if you didn't get XP why would you get it for free? It would mean that those who worked for experience (fought battles) will be on same footing with those who did nothing.
I don't like this proposal at all.

 

[Rekk]

I like this proposal a lot. Currently I get a situation where I want to delete old units that hasnt gained a ton of experience through battle because they are just obsolete now that I can build units with a lot more experience. I also like that you thought of not giving them a straight up bonus to their current exp but instead setting them to the experience they would have gained if they were freshly created (unless they actually have gained more from battle already)

Having reasons to build new units instead of just upgrading the entire army is a good thing.

 

[Heinz_Guderian]

I think that is not good, if you didn't get XP why would you get it for free? It would mean that those who worked for experience (fought battles) will be on same footing with those who did nothing.
I don't like this proposal at all.

No, it would put the old units who have been guarding borders with little action on the same level of experience as freshly built units, which is the LEAST they should be at. They wont get more experience than units that has seen action, as the best way to get experience in this game is by actually fighting.

 

[Heinz_Guderian]

Having reasons to build new units instead of just upgrading the entire army is a good thing.

Why?

 

[Legen]

I think that is not good, if you didn't get XP why would you get it for free? It would mean that those who worked for experience (fought battles) will be on same footing with those who did nothing.
I don't like this proposal at all.

If those who worked for experience get in the same footing as fresh units, then they didn't work that much in the first place. That, or their work was against barbarians and City States, which aren't representative of what they would face in a war against a major civ. Here's what real work looks like:

(I actually ended a war with a funny number like that...)

The starting XP represents military know-how being acquired, shared and preserved in a civilization, and it doesn't make sense for warriors to spend years or generations neglecting what others have learned if these others are trying to share it.

 

[CppMaster]

Also, being punished for building units before barracks instead of after... You still don't have the yields of barracks when you postpone it.

 

[msw1]

I like it. Having to delete and recreate defenders/garrisons is tedious.

 

[pineappledan]

I agree with @rek. Having a decision between rebuild/upgrade is good.

 

[azum4roll]

This essentially makes the purchase unit XP penalty temporary. You only need to build a building to remove it. These units can even be used to complete CS unit gift quests.

 

[Tekamthi]

I wouldn't mind some kind of recoup mechanism, but not both instant & automatic, that's too much. Maybe on next upgrade?

I agree with many here that it's nice to have competing decisions, especially early on where there's relatively little going on: do I build that extra unit for added security now or ride things out til they get more xp in 20 turns?

 

[N.Core]

Someone who's graduated from a poor military academy will have a different experience from someone in the future who's also graduated from the same military academy but has improved a lot. This proposal does not make sense at all. I'm strongly disagreeing with this proposal.

In this case, you don't have to worry about delaying producing units for upgrading the military buildings since they would just get more XP later. There's a strategic timing bit to this you see.

This has a huge implication for players that have tons of units already produced since they will get free XP later once they get global XP bonuses.

 

[Legen]

This essentially makes the purchase unit XP penalty temporary. You only need to build a building to remove it. These units can even be used to complete CS unit gift quests.

Interesting case. But in most cases, that can only happen twice: when building an Armory and a Military Academy. And these two buildings are 5 tech columns apart; if you buy units with the idea that the XP penalty is temporary, you may find that this temporary actually lasts a very long time.

I agree with @rek. Having a decision between rebuild/upgrade is good.

I wouldn't mind some kind of recoup mechanism, but not both instant & automatic, that's too much. Maybe on next upgrade?

I agree with many here that it's nice to have competing decisions, especially early on where there's relatively little going on: do I build that extra unit for added security now or ride things out til they get more xp in 20 turns?

Ultimately, it doesn't change much the decision between rebuild vs upgrade as much as you think. This decision happens mainly for units that saw little to no action in a war. For units that actually saw action, most, if not all of them, will be above the next starting XP threshold. The units which would benefit from this proposal aren't likely to be ones where the decision between upgrading or rebuilding adds interesting gameplay:

• It is a garrison that would only see action if things go horribly wrong, so the priority to even upgrade it is very low.
• It is an unit with promotions that carry over (e.g. UUs, CS gift/quest unit) and are worth one or two extra levels, that you amassed during peacetime due to these promotions; you're not going to replace them.
• Your empire has been at peace for a very long time (hence why your units have low XP) and now has tensions with a major civ, chances are that your military size is low and, therefore, that you can't afford to disband the few units you have.

Someone who's graduated from a poor military academy will have a different experience from someone in the future who's also graduated from the same military academy but has improved a lot. This proposal does not make sense at all. I'm strongly disagreeing with this proposal.

In this case, you don't have to worry about delaying producing units for upgrading the military buildings since they would just get more XP later. There's a strategic timing bit to this you see.

This has a huge implication for players that have tons of units already produced since they will get free XP later once they get global XP bonuses.

The military normally establish training routines to keep their soldiers in top shape, they don't just spend their routine idle after graduating. This goes since the first professional armies were established, and many military leaders reshaped the training of their current forces to take advantage of new tactics. There are also many military reforms throughout history that involved retraining of their current forces, they didn't simply leave existing ones struck with old tactics while training recruits in the newest ones.

 

[Recursive]

Interesting case. But in most cases, that can only happen twice: when building an Armory and a Military Academy. And these two buildings are 5 tech columns apart; if you buy units with the idea that the XP penalty is temporary, you may find that this temporary actually lasts a very long time.

Unless you buy a bunch of units right before building one of them.

The military normally establish training routines to keep their soldiers in top shape, they don't just spend their routine idle after graduating. This goes since the first professional armies were established, and many military leaders reshaped the training of their current forces to take advantage of new tactics. There are also many military reforms throughout history that involved retraining of their current forces, they didn't simply leave existing ones struck with old tactics while training recruits in the newest ones.

During times of peace, my Legions of Terror will not be permitted to lie around drinking mead and eating roast boar. Instead they will be required to obey my dietician and my aerobics instructor.

- Evil Overlord List Resolution #200

 

[Anarcomu]

You would have to keep track of which unit was bought with gold, and which was produced, too, since gold-purchase halve xp.

 

[Karlos_BR]

I really like this proposal, but I also understand balance concerns... I can think of some compromises:

A) This only applies to the unit garrisoning the city when the Barracks/Armory/Military Academy/etc. is built.

B) This requires a specific policy or tenet.

C) Add an option to retrain old units that costs gold... or faith or...
Nevermind, this would negate the onus of purchasing units instead of building them.

 

[rkkn]

give a promotion or something to gold purchased units that makes them not eligible to get the baseline xp

 

[Legen]

give a promotion or something to gold purchased units that makes them not eligible to get the baseline xp

Probably for the best. And have Draft Registration negate it, just like Statue of Zeus does for captured workers penalty. Proposal amended.

 

[rkkn]

Does not apply to units from Authority's Finisher.

also Landsknecht