8 Ages of Pace v2.1.0 Release

[thecrazyscot]

I don't have a ton of data to back this up since I just got back into Civ6 as well, but I just completed a game as Nubia with 8 Ages of Pace, and things felt really good up until the end game pace-wise. It seemed that the techs took just a tad too long to research. Great Person recruitment was pretty crazy at the end as well, but I liked that you really had to save up (>40k gold or >20k faith for a recruit without any influence points). Perhaps it could be tuned slightly, but overall this mod still provides the best pacing.

 

[Atlas627]

I have been using this mod for a long time. I have also made other changes myself, so game balance input from me should be taken with a grain of salt.

I increased your change-per-era for techs/civics cost, and I heavily decreased the Great Person cost increase per era. I personally think that the interesting part of getting Great People is getting the right one not getting them at all, and thus I find that allowing the leader to get more GPs is a worthy price to pay for allowing other players to have a shot at sniping the GP they want (since the overall cost is lower). As for the tech/civic cost, I think the game still runs a little fast (but that may be because I made other changes elsewhere in the game).

 

[Smity2k1]

I'm not sure I ever used the 8 ages of pace mod specifically, but I used several others like it.

Tech/civics need to be slowed down relative to production and there should be more connections in the tech/civic tree just so the AI doesn't beeline ahead in eras (and thus lose great people) so often.

Glad to have you back

 

[Olleus]

So that's one vote for faster end game techs and one vote for slower. It's still tied!

GP cost has increased compared to base game, but by less than the increase in techs/civics, so getting GP should be easier than before. So they *are* more expensive, but you have way longer to save up to buy them than in Vanilla.

I've got the mod running with modbuddy now, rather than using what hacks where available 10 days after release. All I'm waiting for is a few more votes on what needs to be tweaked, and some inspiration for what the mod icon should be. Ideas (or even art work!) are very much appreciated

 

[Smity2k1]

Maybe I wasn't clear - I think tech/civics should be slowed down in the base game - haven't used your 8 ages of pace mod specifically so I don't know if the current status of the mod should be sped up/slowed down.

So excited that there seems to be renewed modder interest after the Nubia summer patch

 

[Laurana Kanan]

I still think the GP cost should be decrease a little more than current. Some of those end-game costs are extremely high. I also actually think that you have the tech/civic pace just about right as it is currently. I play on Epic speed with my own custom trees and time scale and I and most of the AI players end up hitting techs and civics at just about the correct time period.

 

[Olleus]

Maybe I wasn't clear - I think tech/civics should be slowed down in the base game - haven't used your 8 ages of pace mod specifically so I don't know if the current status of the mod should be sped up/slowed down.

Slowing the late game down is the very raison d'etre of this mod, the question is if it's doing right, too much or too little.

I'll leave things as they are for techs/civics that seems to be the popular opinion. As for the GPs in which era do they become too expensive? By how much?

 

[Eudaemonia]

Hi Olleus

You've done a fantastic job with this mod.

The pacing from Ancient>Classical>Medieval>Renaissance is bang on. My techs, civics and GPs synced perfectly with the Year Date in my Germany playthrough - until the Industrial Era.

Below are some comments of mine (I'm approaching this from the perspective that the mod should make tech/civic progression in line with the Year Date).

What I found though is that somewhere into Industrial>Modern, you start to fall behind as it starts to take longer to research the right techs/civics comparative to the progression of the Year Date. My testing was conducted on Quick Speed. I played as usual with a slight science focus. I researched nearly every tech as I progressed through the tech tree.

• Culture: Without much investment on theatre districts, I was able to keep up on civics that corresponded to the year until the end of the renaissance. After that, my lack of investment in culture gen became more obvious and by 1930, I was still in the Industrial Era.
• Technology: I was able to get further before the years started to run away. I'd say by the end of the Industrial era I was behind compared to the Year date.

The first screenshot I've attached shows that in the year 1930 - I'm only just researching Infantry and Flight.

By the time I get to 1948, I'm now quite far behind in tech despite investing heavily in Campus Districts and buildings. According to the year, I should have nukes.

I think Industrial>Modern>Atomic>Information eras need a bit more toning down and tweaking - assuming you want things to follow the Year Date.

You've done a really good job overall keep up the good work!

-Eudaemonia


Edit1: I'm going to play around with your multipliers and see what will address this - my feeling is that instead of increasing after renaissance, the multiplier should wind back down to 0 towards the end game.

 

[Eudaemonia]

So I used the following settings:

INSERT INTO EraIncreases
VALUES ("ERA_ANCIENT",0),
("ERA_CLASSICAL", 25),
("ERA_MEDIEVAL", 50),
("ERA_RENAISSANCE", 75),
("ERA_INDUSTRIAL", 50),
("ERA_MODERN", 50),
("ERA_ATOMIC", 25),
("ERA_INFORMATION", 0);


Classical ~ Turn 45
Medieval - Turn 68 (~380AD)
Renaissance - Turn 100 (1400AD)
Industrial ~ Turn 133 (1770AD)
Modern ~ Turn 151 (1860AD)
Atomic ~ Turn 171 (1920AD)
Information ~ Turn 195 (1970s)

This is much better, though still slightly too slow. I'm reducing it down further as I was only able to build a nuke and launch a nuke in the 70s.

I'm thinking something along the lines of this:

INSERT INTO EraIncreases
VALUES ("ERA_ANCIENT",0),
("ERA_CLASSICAL", 25),
("ERA_MEDIEVAL", 50),
("ERA_RENAISSANCE", 75),
("ERA_INDUSTRIAL", 35),
("ERA_MODERN", 20),
("ERA_ATOMIC", 0),
("ERA_INFORMATION", 100);

Not sure what to do about the information era yet as I haven't tested that far but you should be forced to get usage out of the WW2 tech before having access to jets and bombers IMO

Hope this information is helpful.

-Eudaemonia

 

[Olleus]

Do you build enough campuses? I'm not having trouble getting enough tech in the later eras. Specially as the Eurekas are easy to get.

I'm also more interested in turn counts than years. I think it's more important for game balance to spend the same amount of time (turn wise) in each era than to worry about the details of game date. Once the former is fixed, it's very simple to change how many years each turn is in order to make it add up.

 

[Eudaemonia]

In my Germany game I had about 5-6 campuses in a 10 city empire.

What I wasnt doing as much was getting Eurekas as I was in a Duel vs an AI who had been defeated already. I guess the settings ive used are a baseline for someone earning some eurekas , but not teching them in a aggressively optimal way.

The dates and values I posted above are a result of a bit of trial and error, saving and reloading so I'll do another run through end-to-end to make sure everything feels right.

Edit: removed some text based on your edit

Edit2: I'll try to come back with some recommendations for keeping the eras a consistent amount of turns - seeig as the dates can be tweaked (wasnt aware this could be done)

 

[thecrazyscot]

I finished another game and have to revise my previous estimate regarding GP costs...I definitely think they are too high in the late game. Several of the categories were multiple eras behind me in available GPs when I was in the Information Era.

 

[Olleus]

Okay, the current plan is to dial things back a little in the latter eras to:
("ERA_ANCIENT",0),
("ERA_CLASSICAL", 25),
("ERA_MEDIEVAL", 50),
("ERA_RENAISSANCE", 80),
("ERA_INDUSTRIAL", 120),
("ERA_MODERN", 160), Used to be 170
("ERA_ATOMIC", 210), Used to be 230
("ERA_INFORMATION", 260); Used to be 300

The GP cost increase is 40% of the number above (used to be 50%). That should make some difference towards the end game.

For example, if a GP cost 1000 GPP in Information Era in Vanilla, in the previous version of this mod this would have exploded to 2500. Under the proposed changes it would only go up to 2040. So its an effective reduction of ~20%. I know it's still a big increase, but keep in mind that you're going to be spending a lot more time in the latter eras with this mod and the game should end much later so there'll be time to accumulate GPP

 

[Laurana Kanan]

The GP cost increase is 40% of the number above (used to be 50%). That should make some difference towards the end game.

For example, if a GP cost 1000 GPP in Information Era in Vanilla, in the previous version of this mod this would have exploded to 2500. Under the proposed changes it would only go up to 2040. So its an effective reduction of ~20%.

I could do without the changes to the era values, but the GP cost is definitely the amount of reduction I had in mind!

 

[JordyMcCree]

Okay, the current plan is to dial things back a little in the latter eras to:
("ERA_ANCIENT",0),
("ERA_CLASSICAL", 25),
("ERA_MEDIEVAL", 50),
("ERA_RENAISSANCE", 80),
("ERA_INDUSTRIAL", 120),
("ERA_MODERN", 160), Used to be 170
("ERA_ATOMIC", 210), Used to be 230
("ERA_INFORMATION", 260); Used to be 300

The GP cost increase is 40% of the number above (used to be 50%). That should make some difference towards the end game.

For example, if a GP cost 1000 GPP in Information Era in Vanilla, in the previous version of this mod this would have exploded to 2500. Under the proposed changes it would only go up to 2040. So its an effective reduction of ~20%. I know it's still a big increase, but keep in mind that you're going to be spending a lot more time in the latter eras with this mod and the game should end much later so there'll be time to accumulate GPP

I agree with all the changes. I did find the post-Industrial eras were off with regards to the pacing, looking forward to testing the new build once it's up!

 

[Eudaemonia]

Quick Question:

If the desire is for eras to be of equal length, how long should each era be (relative to the turn limit)?

Should era length be 1/8th of the Turn Limit?

E.g. Online Speed = 250 Turn Limit; ~31 Turns per era.

Or should there be a buffer at the end to allow certain victory conditions (i.e. Science)?

 

[Olleus]

Glad to see some consensus. The information era techs are about 10% cheaper than before, so it's not exactly a huge change on that side of things.

@Eudaemonia I'm not sure a fixed number can be put on this, there's so much variation between players and games that a precise answer would be almost meaningless. But I guess ~1/10th of the turn limit for the leading player to go from one age to the next seems very roughly about right.

 

[Eudaemonia]

Glad to see some consensus. The information era techs are about 10% cheaper than before, so it's not exactly a huge change on that side of things.

@Eudaemonia I'm not sure a fixed number can be put on this, there's so much variation between players and games that a precise answer would be almost meaningless. But I guess ~1/10th of the turn limit for the leading player to go from one age to the next seems very roughly about right.

Thanks - I'll keep this in mind during my testing as a rough guide.

 

[Olleus]

Olleus updated 8 Ages of Pace with a new update entry:

Stable release: minor tweaks and on steam

Small changes to the mod based on feedback received. The late game tech/civics increase has been reduced and is now:
Ancient: +0%
Classical: +25%
Medieval: +50%
Renaissance: +80%
Industrial: + 120%
Modern: + 160% (Used to be +170%)
Atomic: +210% (Used to be +230%)
Information: + 260% (Used to be +300%)

The cost of Great People has also been reduced. The increase in each era is by x0.4 of the numbers listed above (used to be 0.5).

No changes to roads, city growth or borders (see below for...

Read the rest of this update entry...

 

[Olleus]

As there were no complaints, the previous version discussed has been published.

It's also on steam now, I deleting your previous version of the mod and subscribing on steam.