A case for forum members easing up on 2K a bit

[Dark_Jedi06]

Honestly it would just be nice to hear something that's new...the whole Steam discussion is just .

I want to hear more about the game, I want Firaxis to release some incredibly awesome new information accompanied by amazing screenshots that's going to get me all riled up for Civ V again despite all this Steam nonsense. Though I suppose that's wishful thinking on my part...

 

[tom2050]

What is your evidence for this horrible Orwellian vision you describe?

You actually are asking for evidence...? It's not tough to find.

Former Take-Two execs must defend backdating suit; Judge refuses to dismiss securities fraud case
BioShock 2 to Feature SecuROM DRM
Icahn Grabs Bigger Stake in Take-Two
Take-Two Reaches $20M Settlement with Investors

GP: We should point out that, as the record shows, the notion that Take-Two lied about the origin of the Hot Coffee scenes is a fact, not merely an allegation. In one the sleaziest moves ever seen in the game biz, Take-Two tried to pin the rap for the hidden sex scenes on its biggest fans, the GTA mod community. To be fair, there was a different management team in place back then.

Paul Eibeler's new moniker: worst CEO
Investment Blog Bashes Take-Two Boss Zelnick
Court Filing: 2KGames Developing "Duke Begins"
Grand Theft Auto Publisher Coughs Up $3.3M to Settle Old Cases
"Bioshock" Comes With Nasty DRM That Sets Off Anti-Virus Software, Ruins Everyone's Day
Bioshock 2 DRM: SecuROM, activation limits, and bears
2K pares down BioShock 2 DRM: SecuROM all but gone now

This could be done all day long... it's depressing to look at for any length of time!

Bottom Line: Take-Two/2K Does Not Get It, they won't get it, and they are trying to shove this crap down everyone's throat. I'm sure someone will try to defend them somehow and in someway, but it continues and does not end for them.

 

[Tamed]

Those same amounts of headlines could be found about literally any top 15 publisher in the VG world.

 

[Slayan]

What I want to know is that with steam we are just basicly renting the use of the game , So why I'm I having to shell our $50.00 for something that I am renting. If I cant own it how about not charging the rate for a game that I can own.
I dont multiplay online so Steam is worthless to me.

 

[Simage]

What I'm trying to say is that it's good for the developer because it allows them to make a better game overall. The singleplayer experience in Civilization V is better than it would have been without Steamworks, because it allowed them to implement all of the Steamworks-supported features a lot quicker and easier.

I have to admit curiosity myself, being another person who has played exclusively single player in the past, and not seeing any reason for that to change anytime soon, what features can we expect to see in single player games due to the decision to use steam that would not have been included had another solution been used.

 

[bite]

Honestly it would just be nice to hear something that's new...the whole Steam discussion is just .

I want to hear more about the game, I want Firaxis to release some incredibly awesome new information accompanied by amazing screenshots that's going to get me all riled up for Civ V again despite all this Steam nonsense. Though I suppose that's wishful thinking on my part...

Trust me when i say every mod in the forum can not wait for E3

 

[isndl]

Trust me when i say every mod in the forum can not wait for E3

You had best hope 2K/Firaxis doesn't unveil some sort of nefarious DLC plan at E3.

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

OK, here's a very simple question-& one I'm pretty sure of the answer to (but hopefully giving the answer will at least shut up some of the more ludicrous posts).

"Is there anything at all (besides the inclusion of Babylon) that will prevent a customer from buying the game-in DVD form-from a video game retailer as per usual?"

"Will people who buy the game online be allowed to burn a copy of the game onto a DVD for their own use?"

"Will patches *only* be available via Steam, or will there also be mirror sites for game patches-such as Civfanatics?"

If people can still go to the local video-game store & purchase a copy of Civ5, with all the associated packaging, & if they can still get patches through either Steam or authorized mirror sites, then I really, *REALLY* fail to see what everyones basis for complaint is (aside from the need to whinge endlessly!)

Aussie.

 

[pleasenoname]

Hi. Greetings Elizabeth and Greg.

I am a late adopter, so I am just now reading that Civ 5 is a steam exclusive.
I bought Civ 4 in 2009 and went out to get BTS (Beyond the Sword) shortly after.

I bought Spore later that year and discovered to my horror, while switching between monitor and TV, to see which looked better, an error message telling me to be sure not to use multiple accounts. Then i did research and heard of something called SecuRom, designed to install on my computer (with higher permissions than administrator) and monitor every process and take non-user approved action against my computer.

I also bought the Creepy & Cute and Galactic adventures expansion packs through EA's download manager. The insidious part, is that it forces you to install Adobe Air or be cut off from spores online content. Upon review of the EULA, Adobe Air collects information from your computer and gives it to 3rd party advertisers(watch out, they bundle it with reader now: check your add remove programs).

Long story short, I boycotted DRM(euphemism for corporate sponsored spyware).

I heard about Steam and decided to do what any good scientist would do; I tested it out.

1. First of all: the disc doesn't have the game on it, it downloads it from the internet.
Seems like bait and switch to me. It would be more honest to sell me a URL address.

2. It took hours to get my account validated through e-mail because I don't have cookies enabled(they don't tell you that it installs a cookie to validate an account).
3. I have a cable modem. What if someone has dial -up? or is poor or on the religious right and has no internet?
4. Steam runs in the backround like other forms of DRM do. I therefore consider it DRM.
5. In all, it took 6+ hours to install the game

I almost cried when i read that Carl Icahn had a stake in take 2.
I had stock in Marvel in the 90's. Him and his buddies, got rid of the board of directors and tookover the company. My stock was made worthless after he was done with the company. He sucked it dry and then left.

I like civ 4 because of the customization and mods that are possible. I hope you abandon the DRM and come to your senses.

And yes you can rely on direct X to make things easier, but it is a crutch and actually making your own system causes a greater skill set to be learned.

 

[Provost Martin]

I understand all of your concerns, but how many of you complaining have actually used Steam lately? It's a much more stable and usable app than it was compared to just a year ago. I'm starting to actually think it's a pretty handy tool since it keeps you updated and informed without you having to lift a finger.

However, what I don't like is that you are FORCED to use it. As a consumer I want options. And no, it's not as easy as "hey if you don't like it don't buy it". I still want Civ5!

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

The point, Provost, is if its any more "forced" than signing up to Gamespy or any other Multi-player Game Lobby. I signed up to them for Civ4, but have never used them since.
I just think some people are treating this like the developers are putting a gun against their heads-when it doesn't sound like that AT ALL to me!

Aussie.

 

[Greybriar]

....I almost cried when i read that Carl Icahn had a stake in take 2....

Oh my God! We are doomed! DOOMED!!

 

[Senethro]

OK, here's a very simple question-& one I'm pretty sure of the answer to (but hopefully giving the answer will at least shut up some of the more ludicrous posts).

"Is there anything at all (besides the inclusion of Babylon) that will prevent a customer from buying the game-in DVD form-from a video game retailer as per usual?"

"Will people who buy the game online be allowed to burn a copy of the game onto a DVD for their own use?"

"Will patches *only* be available via Steam, or will there also be mirror sites for game patches-such as Civfanatics?"

If people can still go to the local video-game store & purchase a copy of Civ5, with all the associated packaging, & if they can still get patches through either Steam or authorized mirror sites, then I really, *REALLY* fail to see what everyones basis for complaint is (aside from the need to whinge endlessly!)

Aussie.

Sorry if you already know exactly what Steam is but your post didn't make it clear. Its Valve Softwares digital delivery system that lets you buy games directly over the internet. The software you buy comes with a DRM system that runs every time you start the game. For Steamworks integrated games like Civ5 this includes versions bought on DVD. Its an anti-piracy measure and does a bunch of other stuff including multiplayer, patching and being a storefront for DLC.

You don't have to be online to use Steam as it features a mode for offline usage. But one of the issues some people have is that even people buying the DVD version will have to go online at least once to authenticate with Steam before they can use offline mode.

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

In which case, it sounds like a mega storm in a tea-cup. I'm pretty certain that when I bought my Civ4 DVD, I had to authenticate it online with some kind of code-key inside the case-how is this any different? Once I'd authenticated, I never had to have anything more to do with the online component unless I wanted to. Again, how is Steam going to be different? My guess is-IT WON'T. So where is all this whining coming from?

 

[tom2050]

Take Two has had big financial struggles anyways... Icahn may get them back on track since he heavy-handed his way into half the seats of the board of directors; but don't put it past him to sell off half the company if he feels like it (I believe it was considered for 2K Sports?). Having Firaxis possibly suffer by the continuing purchase of Take Two does nothing good for civilization from a man of his corporate raiding ideals. Firaxis has probably already suffered a bit from Take-Two and 2K themselves as we see it head into a Steam DRM 'we own the game you purchased' MacroManagement oriented Civ 5.

@Aussie_Lurker: Steam cheerleaders make it sound great, and all the features are, we all agree on that. Ori showed Steam keeps contact with servers, and many other reports abound that playing offline with no internet, games suddenly require you to connect (locking you out of the game until you do). EULA is stock full of ways and methods for Valve to do anything they want (including closing your account permanantly for almost any reason). Claims of EXE checking DRM on non-Steam games run through Steam and locking of account due to this. Setting up LAN can be a pain, if allowed. Also, soldiers out of country have mega problems with Steam for several reasons in part due to internet. Auto-patching is not good for mods. Future auto-hardware driver updating by a Digital Rights Management service is obviously not good for people's PC's (let OS or user handle it). List goes on and on.

 

[ori]

In which case, it sounds like a mega storm in a tea-cup. I'm pretty certain that when I bought my Civ4 DVD, I had to authenticate it online with some kind of code-key inside the case-how is this any different? Once I'd authenticated, I never had to have anything more to do with the online component unless I wanted to. Again, how is Steam going to be different? My guess is-IT WON'T. So where is all this whining coming from?

Civ4 didn't use an online authentication in its non-online distribution. So there you most likely misremember.

Disclaimer: This is definitely true for the German Civ4 and Warlords and the US BtS version - of course it is conceivable that it was different elsewhere, but I seriously doubt it, there would have been problems related to this coming up in the Civ4 Tech Support subforum since no verification scheme is foolproof .

 

[Tylerryan79]

Ausie, most of your questions havent been fully answered, at least not by 2k greg or elizabeth. The only one that is a clear yes is if you dl the game, you can burn it to a dvd through steam. The patch question hasnt been fully answered, and if you are able to update from 3rd party site dl, you still would have to connect to steam to reauthenticate(because you changed game files ect.).

 

[Tylerryan79]

The point, Provost, is if its any more "forced" than signing up to Gamespy or any other Multi-player Game Lobby. I signed up to them for Civ4, but have never used them since.
I just think some people are treating this like the developers are putting a gun against their heads-when it doesn't sound like that AT ALL to me!

Aussie.

I remeber when installing, you had the option to install these options. I did not, and that was my choice.

 

[Alki]

What I want to know is that with steam we are just basicly renting the use of the game , So why I'm I having to shell our $50.00 for something that I am renting. If I cant own it how about not charging the rate for a game that I can own.
I dont multiplay online so Steam is worthless to me.

Can you list any programs you actually own instead of have a license to run one copy of said program? I doubt you actually own any computer programs. I certainly don't

 

[Grouchey]

In which case, it sounds like a mega storm in a tea-cup. I'm pretty certain that when I bought my Civ4 DVD, I had to authenticate it online with some kind of code-key inside the case-how is this any different? Once I'd authenticated, I never had to have anything more to do with the online component unless I wanted to. Again, how is Steam going to be different? My guess is-IT WON'T. So where is all this whining coming from?

Senethro missed a few things I hope this helps:

You won't be able to play the game offline unless you update Steam whenever it needs to update. https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=3160-AGCB-2555

Some people report needing to reconnect to the internet every three weeks or so to play Steam-mandatory games. We've asked 2K Greg to respond to this issue (debunk, confirm for CIV V)

Your steam account may be hacked and you will lose access to all your games (until Steam sorts that out). Go to the steam forums and search "hacked" and "account" and read the horror stories.

All patches and updates will come from Steam and will occur automatically unless you turn them off (and again some people report forced patches and updates, which can effect your mods).

Steam may offer you games for sale -- expansions or discounts -- won't work unless you also purchase of Steam editions of related games. In my experience, sometimes this is clear and sometimes it isn't. For example you may purchase EU3's "Heir to the Throne" expansion on Steam but it won't run unless you also purchase EU3 on Steam.

Personally, I can live with Steam, but there are legitimate reasons beyond invasive DRM schemes to be wary.