A case for forum members easing up on 2K a bit

[Suspiria]

Just to confirm...

Do you need to be on STEAM to play Civ5?

Do you need to be on STEAM to be able to save a game in Civ5?

 

[Ahriman]

Do you need to be on STEAM to play Civ5?
Do you need to be on STEAM to be able to save a game in Civ5?

Yes. But you can do so in offline mode. And you save locally to your hard-drive. Steam is an application that needs to run, but once you've connected once to register, you can run Steam without being connected to the internet.

So its not that you're "on" Steam; its not like being "on" Battle.net or something similar.

 

[Hypernova]

Honestly, I'm more annoyed about the potential they went with dumbing down the game or delivering civ 5 as a game lacking replayability and the civ franchise's characteristic gameplay. Steam isn't a huge concern of mine, but it's not like people being upset by DRM-related things is unexpected, it's happened everywhere for a couple years.

Well if Steam isn't really a concern of yours then why did you post on this thread? Are you just intent on whining about your concern for Civ V everywhere you can?

 

[Tylerryan79]

Honestly, I'm more annoyed about the potential they went with dumbing down the game or delivering civ 5 as a game lacking replayability and the civ franchise's characteristic gameplay. Steam isn't a huge concern of mine, but it's not like people being upset by DRM-related things is unexpected, it's happened everywhere for a couple years.

This is a concern of mine also, dumbing down the game. I don't play on deity by any means, however I still love how civ is set up, learning curve and all. If they make this game into something less, and simple, I will be very sad.

 

[2K Greg]

This is a concern of mine also, dumbing down the game. I don't play on deity by any means, however I still love how civ is set up, learning curve and all. If they make this game into something less, and simple, I will be very sad.

I do not think you will be disappointed. While it's true that Civ V is probably the Civ game with the most radical departures from the previous games in the series (one unit per tile being a very notable one,) it has not lost any of its depth! It will require you to think in different ways than you have before, and it'll require you to come up with totally new strategies to win, but you will certainly still have to think just as much.

 

[arstal]

What I'm trying to say is that it's good for the developer because it allows them to make a better game overall. The singleplayer experience in Civilization V is better than it would have been without Steamworks, because it allowed them to implement all of the Steamworks-supported features a lot quicker and easier.



I wish I could say something to convince you otherwise. In the end you can choose to believe me or not, but I am telling you the truth when I say that the use of Steamworks was something the developers wanted.

Quite honestly, I don't believe you one bit.

2K Greg wrote:

Argueing over who decided to use steam is kind of pointless now. Its there and has made CIV V too unattractive to buy. A confirmation post, from a developer, would make your statement more believable though.

Given the relation between Firaxis and Stardock in the past (they have done work for each other), I cannot see Firaxis willingly choosing a platform that would screw over a company they have good relations with. Yeah, it may be one team, but it's clear who is calling the shots- and it's not Firaxis.

This is the bit thats important to me. Everyone asking for a Steamless version is asking for a worse game.

Quit trying to speak for the rest of us. Obviously Steamworks= worse game for us, otherwise we wouldn't be angry about it. If you think steam makes a better game, with a better DRM system - you could go buy the Steam version, and we could all be happy. Instead, 2K is trying to get us to take it up the rear- and well, some Civ players don't have the tolerance that the Steam Sunshine Squad or FPS fans would.

 

[Maniacal]

What I am wondering (and sorry if this was answered elsewhere) is why the hell are people from 2K here and not the actually developers? I'd rather have questions answered from people who are actually, you know, working on the game then people from the publisher.

Note: I have not read much in the Civ5 section, as the amount of ignorance and petty arguments about steam turns me off (its not perfect but I have no issues with using steam).

 

[arstal]

developers are probably real busy working 12+ hour days.

 

[Senethro]

Quite honestly, I don't believe you one bit.

So theres no point in Greg being here? You're just going to believe what you wish was true?

Given the relation between Firaxis and Stardock in the past (they have done work for each other), I cannot see Firaxis willingly choosing a platform that would screw over a company they have good relations with. Yeah, it may be one team, but it's clear who is calling the shots- and it's not Firaxis.

Because Steamworks gives more functionality than Impulse i.e. more than just DRM. Like has already been said many times in this thread.

Quit trying to speak for the rest of us. Obviously Steamworks= worse game for us, otherwise we wouldn't be angry about it. If you think steam makes a better game, with a better DRM system - you could go buy the Steam version, and we could all be happy. Instead, 2K is trying to get us to take it up the rear- and well, some Civ players don't have the tolerance that the Steam Sunshine Squad or FPS fans would.

You didn't get it. Steam decreased development time leading to either an earlier release or more time spent on other features. Therefore, better game.

I'm sure FPS fans with all their free weekends, free games and free content updates (from Valve at least) through Steam are gutted that you look down on them.

 

[Maniacal]

And afaik publishers are off in some maze of cubicles somewhere else urging deadlines and using their funding as an excuse to dumb things down (generalization based off other publishers lke EA and Activision, I don't know what Take2 is like).

 

[Grouchey]

You didn't get it. Steam decreased development time leading to either an earlier release or more time spent on other features. Therefore, better game.

Got to call you on this one. Finishing quicker does not = better game. "More time spent on other features" because Steamworks did some other stuff = finishing quicker.

 

[Tylerryan79]

I do not think you will be disappointed. While it's true that Civ V is probably the Civ game with the most radical departures from the previous games in the series (one unit per tile being a very notable one,) it has not lost any of its depth! It will require you to think in different ways than you have before, and it'll require you to come up with totally new strategies to win, but you will certainly still have to think just as much.

I love most of the changes, and always welcome a new challenge. My main concern is basicly the move towards steam to reach the masses, and the game somehow loosing its full potential, making things simple(by no means do I think 1upt is "simple"). There is no proof this will happen or has, but good things often evolve away from their roots, and become a fad of sorts. Everyone should play civ imo, but not at the cost of "dumbing it down". I believe you though, and still plan on getting it asap

 

[Krill]

What I'm trying to say is that it's good for the developer because it allows them to make a better game overall. The singleplayer experience in Civilization V is better than it would have been without Steamworks, because it allowed them to implement all of the Steamworks-supported features a lot quicker and easier.

Could you link to a list of what these features are please?

 

[tom2050]

And afaik publishers are off in some maze of cubicles somewhere else urging deadlines and using their funding as an excuse to dumb things down (generalization based off other publishers lke EA and Activision, I don't know what Take2 is like).

I don't think I would want to know what they are really like, it's almost scary.

Take 2 and 2K Games are stock full of Ubi-like DRM methods, lawsuits of back-dating stock options (currently underway), contradictions, false claims, management pushing and shoving, disastrous public relations control of bad management, all kinds of horrible non-sense you would only see in some kind of horror flick.

I feel sorry for 2K Greg and Elizabeth, because they have to man the front lines and try to make it all sound good (which is impossible to do). The faq will probably take forever, and give not full answers; if it does give full answers it would not do the company much good, and Greg would probably lose his job. It's like trying to make something horrible sound good enough to spend your money on. It's a tough job that requires a lot of spin and imagination of the 100% truth.

 

[3 EMS]

arstal wrote:

Given the relation between Firaxis and Stardock in the past (they have done work for each other), I cannot see Firaxis willingly choosing a platform that would screw over a company they have good relations with. Yeah, it may be one team, but it's clear who is calling the shots- and it's not Firaxis.

I'd like to believe you. Sid decided. Greedy Pennypincher @ 2K decided. Maybe the two sat around getting high one night and decided together. Who knows. My point is that it doesn't matter at this point in time. Steam is in, Civ V is out.

 

[Maniacal]

I don't think I would want to know what they are really like, it's almost scary.

Take 2 and 2K Games are stock full of Ubi-like DRM methods, lawsuits of back-dating stock options (currently underway), contradictions, false claims, management pushing and shoving, disastrous public relations control of bad management, all kinds of horrible non-sense you would only see in some kind of horror flick.

I feel sorry for 2K Greg and Elizabeth, because they have to man the front lines and try to make it all sound good (which is impossible to do). The faq will probably take forever, and give not full answers; if it does give full answers it would not do the company much good, and Greg would probably lose his job. It's like trying to make something horrible sound good enough to spend your money on. It's a tough job that requires a lot of spin and imagination of the 100% truth.

Oops sorry I meant 2K not Take2. Although Take2 owns 2K

 

[Lemon Merchant]

So theres no point in Greg being here?

I like Greg being here. At least somebody is reading our grumbles and concerns. Maybe some of them even make it back to HQ.

What I would really like, though, is for Greg or Elizabeth to at least acknowledge that we have concerns, and perhaps try to address a few of them, rather than recite the same old marketing drivel. I don't fault them, they are only doing their job, and they can only regurgitate from a script, but maybe the script writer might read a thread or two and let them answer some questions...

With some honest answers. Not hyperbole and double-talk.

 

[2K Greg]

Your concerns are all heard back at "HQ" (meaning both Firaxis and 2K.) We all care about the community a lot. I mean they hired me specifically to connect with the community even more!

I acknowledge that you have concerns. I would hope the fact that I'm here should make that pretty clear! I do not regurgitate from a script. Everything I have said and will say is honest, and in my own words.

It is unfortunate that getting answers to you guys sometimes takes longer than you'd like. It's longer than I'd like as well, but that's just the reality of these things. Dev is very busy making the game, so getting answers from them can take time. Also, the game isn't finished which means some questions just don't even have an answer. But rest assured that I'm doing everything I can to get those answers.

But again, your comments and concerns are definitely being heard.

And finally, I think I'm still new enough that I can use the "I'm still getting up to speed on everything" excuse

 

[Hypernova]

I don't think I would want to know what they are really like, it's almost scary.

Take 2 and 2K Games are stock full of Ubi-like DRM methods, lawsuits of back-dating stock options (currently underway), contradictions, false claims, management pushing and shoving, disastrous public relations control of bad management, all kinds of horrible non-sense you would only see in some kind of horror flick.

I feel sorry for 2K Greg and Elizabeth, because they have to man the front lines and try to make it all sound good (which is impossible to do). The faq will probably take forever, and give not full answers; if it does give full answers it would not do the company much good, and Greg would probably lose his job. It's like trying to make something horrible sound good enough to spend your money on. It's a tough job that requires a lot of spin and imagination of the 100% truth.

What is your evidence for this horrible Orwellian vision you describe?

 

[Rusty Edge]

Your concerns are all heard back at "HQ" (meaning both Firaxis and 2K.) We all care about the community a lot. I mean they hired me specifically to connect with the community even more!

I acknowledge that you have concerns. I would hope the fact that I'm here should make that pretty clear! I do not regurgitate from a script. Everything I have said and will say is honest, and in my own words.

It is unfortunate that getting answers to you guys sometimes takes longer than you'd like. It's longer than I'd like as well, but that's just the reality of these things. Dev is very busy making the game, so getting answers from them can take time. Also, the game isn't finished which means some questions just don't even have an answer. But rest assured that I'm doing everything I can to get those answers.

But again, your comments and concerns are definitely being heard.

And finally, I think I'm still new enough that I can use the "I'm still getting up to speed on everything" excuse

Great!

Has anything changed as a direct result of what they have heard (Yes or No ) ?