A few changes to Expansive trait

[Imuratep]

Right now Expansive is quite boring. Health, Health and even more health. In vanilla civ I chose Expansive because of the faster rate of workers getting produced and because of the doubled rate of production for Granaries. But none of these points apply in FFH. The production boni for workers were cut and granaries have been strongly weakened by limiting the food collected by them to 20%. If at least you got +100% for the smokehouses which also collects food, but even then you never reach the strength of expansive in vanilla (which is even there only slightly above avarage).
So for me there are several possibilities:
1. Give them bigger rate of collected food from granaries and smokehouses (+10% additional food collected) or even a basic rate of 20% collected food.
2. Expand their other theme. Harbor gives you +25% on trade routes, not just for fish resources. The Expansive leaders could get +100% for the other buildings which get you +x% on trade routes. Inns and Taverns right now are too expensive for that it would be worth the investment. But if you can build them at the speed all other leaders can build harbors you really would consider it. Furthermore a theme would be expanded that is very rarely used in FFH. At last Falamar being the one relying on trade routes with many taverns and inns (a dream for a pirate ) would get closer to Hanna in power level.
3. Give them +100% for the other health buildings. Especially Infirmary is very expensive and has a nice side effect (+25% regeneration) and together with the Public healers at no upkeep cost this would have a nice synergy

 

[MrPopov]

I like 2 and 3 and think they should be included and remove the +x health (is it +2 or 3 I can't recall) from expansive alltogether.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I'm not really sure I like expansive meaning more health. I prefer that it makes settlers cheaper and have higher movement.

 

[Imuratep]

I'm not really sure I like expansive meaning more health. I prefer that it makes settlers cheaper and have higher movement.

Your idea would fit the actual word meaning and would be more useful in FFH than in vanilla Civ, because of the much higher costs for settlers in FFH. But otherwise you need some kind of trait that works with health from expansive, so if you cut health completely some other trait would have to be created with another name corresponding to health.

 

[Luckmann]

Ah, the joy of necromancy.

I'm not really sure I like expansive meaning more health. I prefer that it makes settlers cheaper and have higher movement.

The more I think of it, the more I agree. To me, Expansive should mean expanding quicker, building infrastructually expansive improvements faster, and better settlers.

I was thinking remove the +3/Health, introduce free Mobility promotion for Workers & Settlers (and Recon units? ), and add double production speed of Tavern, possibly even Smokehouse.

 

[WarKirby]

Perhaps FF has changed this.

In Fall Farther, it gives double production of settlers, granaries, and harbours.

I find the double settler production especially useful. Playing as Grigori, I picked it as my first Adaptive trait, and expanded rapidly. Then switched it for financial later.

 

[Emptiness]

In FfH2 it's +3 , double production settlers, harbors, and granaries - so it doesn't look like there was any change.

The strength of expansive is the double production settlers. The +3 is really powerful on very high difficulty settings. The double production harbors and granaries is nice, but those bonuses could be removed and expansive would still shine at higher difficulties. I don't think that expansive is underpowered. Nothing needs to be added to it, but I agree that adding double production smokehouses would be thematically appropriate and would not make it overpowered.

 

[Luckmann]

[...]
The strength of expansive is the double production settlers. The +3 is really powerful on very high difficulty settings. The double production harbors and granaries is nice, but those bonuses could be removed and expansive would still shine at higher difficulties. I don't think that expansive is underpowered. Nothing needs to be added to it, but I agree that adding double production smokehouses would be thematically appropriate and would not make it overpowered.

I don't think anyone thinks it's particulary underpowered. I just felt that Expansive shouldn't equal Health.

There's nothing in particular, mechanically wrong with Expansive or it's balance. It's just.. boring and doesn't relate to it's name very well. In my own opinion, of course.

 

[Frostdrake]

Hmmm... I've finally registered to post something, but I'm not a newbie

IMO expansive should encourage to expand your empire early on.
Enhancing settler buildtime is the first step, but my main idea was to make early ccities less crippling:
Giving them a building/effect which reduces maintenance and increases culture would let your empire grow fast as the trait-name states. Reduced production/wealth/science would balance this to prevent spamming cheap earlygame cities becoming too fast too strong, as well as removing the health bonus.
To make these new, but weaker, cities normal, there could be a spell/building/something else which could negate the effect.

What do you think guys?

(Sorry for English mistakes, I'm still at school but spending way too much time on FfH )

 

[Frostdrake]

Obviously...
nothing?

 

[WarKirby]

but I agree that adding double production smokehouses would be thematically appropriate and would not make it overpowered.

AND BREEDING PITS!!

just in case anyone ever decides to play calabim with an expansive leader.

For that matter, I think Organised should double speed of Basilicas too.
And Financial should double speed of tax offices, etc.

 

[WarKirby]

IMO expansive should encourage to expand your empire early on.
Enhancing settler buildtime is the first step, but my main idea was to make early ccities less crippling:
Giving them a building/effect which reduces maintenance and increases culture would let your empire grow fast as the trait-name states. Reduced production/wealth/science would balance this to prevent spamming cheap earlygame cities becoming too fast too strong, as well as removing the health bonus.
To make these new, but weaker, cities normal, there could be a spell/building/something else which could negate the effect.

What do you think guys?

(Sorry for English mistakes, I'm still at school but spending way too much time on FfH )

I think along these lines, a moderate reduction in City maintenance from either Distnce from Palace, or Number of Cities would be good (but not both)