A Glimpse Into Daily Life In North Korea

[Traitorfish]

Ok, let me get my personal intelligence and espionage teams assembled and go get that for you. I'm on it.
Actually, I'll let my tax dollars fund it, and trust the gubbamint's designations, and not demand to see top secret information that could endanger who knows how many people...

And what happened to government accountability, exactly?

 

[NedimNapoleon]

According to the poll I posted earlier, they want to reunify even more now than they did in the past.

If the polls asked common S. Korean folk sure but can the government support a reunification, as I said massive unemployment do to the collapse of state owned factories, hungry people, would negativity effect the S. Korea (I couldn't find the poll, so I assume it asked common folk).

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

Ok, let me get my personal intelligence and espionage teams assembled and go get that for you. I'm on it.
Actually, I'll let my tax dollars fund it, and trust the gubbamint's designations, and not demand to see top secret information that could endanger who knows how many people... The others on the list are also pretty terrible places, I highly doubt that there was some secret conspiracy to put N Korea in the doghouse despite being well behaved.

For someone who hates the government you sure have no problem blindly following their statements, do you?

Rejecting it makes them violators to begin with...

lol that's not how it works.

This treaty was certainly something you would recommend for the world, was it not?

No, because it's an attempt to maintain a nuclear oligopoly. All nuclear weapons should be destroyed.

 

[kochman]

For someone who hates the government you sure have no problem blindly following their statements, do you?

1) I don't hate the government, in fact, I have spent the vast majority of my adult, working career working for it.
2) There is clearly a purpose for government, and national defense is one of those, and I would consider gathering intelligence about the military actions/capabilities of other nations to be a part of that...

lol that's not how it works.

Well, according to the UN it is... I thought you were a big supporter of the UN?
I would say that, the NPT, it was a net positive for the world...

No, because it's an attempt to maintain a nuclear oligopoly. All nuclear weapons should be destroyed.

As I said above, in lieu of living in fantasy land, the NPT is a net positive for the world. When everyone gets rid of nukes, and the know-how to make them... I completely agree they should be destroyed.
Of course, that will just lead to more large scale conventional wars, most likely.

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

1) I don't hate the government, in fact, I have spent the vast majority of my adult, working career working for it.
2) There is clearly a purpose for government, and national defense is one of those, and I would consider gathering intelligence about the military actions/capabilities of other nations to be a part of that...

So you trust the government to say someone is a terrorist, and never demand any evidence of it whatsoever, because it might be something top secret that would endanger people? You know what that sounds like?

Spoiler :

Well, according to the UN it is... I thought you were a big supporter of the UN?
I would say that, the NPT, it was a net positive for the world...

I did that thing that you do when you want to know more about something, and discovered that the problem the UN had with North Korea was that it aceded to the treaty, then withdrew in 2003. So I was wrong, they did sign it.

So no, the UN does not enforce treaties on countries that have not signed them. India, for example, never signed the treaty, and neither did Pakistan or Israel. This was not a UNSC Resolution, it was a UN-sanctioned treaty. Not the same thing at all.

 

[kochman]

So you trust the government to say someone is a terrorist, and never demand any evidence of it whatsoever, because it might be something top secret that would endanger people? You know what that sounds like?

Why did you twist my words so?
I trust that our intelligence against a FOREIGN NATION is at least somewhat accurate, and it appears most of the West has come to a similar conclusion... I don't believe it is an anti-NKorean thing, seeing as how we have accepted SKorea...
You talk about the government accusing "someone"...
N Korea is not a someone... it's a sovereign nation.
Please remain within the context of the conversation if you want to continue.

 

[Takhisis]

I trust that our intelligence against a FOREIGN NATION is at least somewhat accurate,

As with those WMD that Saddam had and made him and immediate threat to American oil compa national security?

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

Why did you twist my words so?
I trust that our intelligence against a FOREIGN NATION is at least somewhat accurate, and it appears most of the West has come to a similar conclusion... I don't believe it is an anti-NKorean thing, seeing as how we have accepted SKorea...
You talk about the government accusing "someone"...
N Korea is not a someone... it's a sovereign nation.
Please remain within the context of the conversation if you want to continue.

Why do you trust them about a foreign nation but not a person? How can there be zero unclassified evidence? If the government said they had contacted space aliens, but they couldn't show you the evidence because it would endanger too many lives, would you believe that also?

 

[Formaldehyde]

If the polls asked common S. Korean folk sure but can the government support a reunification, as I said massive unemployment do to the collapse of state owned factories, hungry people, would negativity effect the S. Korea (I couldn't find the poll, so I assume it asked common folk).

If NK collapses tomorrow it is certainly going to have a deleterious effect on the short-term SK economy, even much more so than the fall of East Germany did. But I think they would far prefer that to the threat of Seoul, or any other part of SK, getting nuked if the US did decide to invade. What they really don't want is to get caught up in some absurd war again.

 

[woody60707]

If NK collapses tomorrow it is certainly going to have a deleterious effect on the short-term SK economy, even much more so than the fall of East Germany did. But I think they would far prefer that to the threat of Seoul, or any other part of SK, getting nuked if the US did decide to invade. What they really don't want is to get caught up in some absurd war again.

Again? What was the 1st absurd war? The one going on right now?

 

[Masada]

Actually, for that matter what is North Korea not as bad as? Orwell's 1984 looks on balance more attractive: at least you get three square, bad, meals a day and booze as prole. The meals part it seems is optional in North Korea.

Much of the criticism of NK is based on speculation of how other similar governments ostensibly worked. And that was based largely on remote criticisms of them, which may or may not have been accurate either.

I'm pretty sure there's a fair amount of first-hand knoweldge of what actually happens in North Korea. There's like millions of South Koreans visiting family and stuff and all those doods who escaped the dratted place rite? There's also an independant media I linked to earlier who at great risk to their personal safety (these are not emigrees, but people living in North Korea) are reporting on the rather simple fact that people are still starving to death there. So while TV's for the well-connected and wealthy are all well and good I'm still more concerned about the majority who don't have that benefit. But whatever, North Korea isn't that bad some doods have TVs.

 

[ParkCungHee]

I think one of the most condemning things about North Korea is that the one serious scholar they let in from time to time, when he comes up with his apologisms for the regime, they still manage to sound horribly depressing.
"It's not so bad. The prisoners are allowed to catch their own food inside the camps. Yeah it's mostly rats, but they're allowed to catch whatever they can!"

 

[Bamspeedy]

Much of the criticism of NK is based on speculation of how other similar governments ostensibly worked.

I'll admit I've used some of that. Is that any different that speculating that because you see a few people living pretty good that the majority of the population must be living pretty good as well? The BBC link posted earlier paints a completely different picture than the one in the OP. (starvation vs. amusement parks, TVs and restaurants)

And that was based largely on remote criticisms of them, which may or may not have been accurate either

May not have been acurate? Have you been there? Do you know anybody who lived there? My wife's brother got the privilige to own a factory only to later have it deemed 'illegal' and taken from him. Is that anecdotal? Well, so is a picture of a single farmer being used to represent all farmers.

My wife didn't work in what most would think of as a 'sweatshop', because she wasn't a factory worker, but worked in the offices of a sweatshop doing payroll. Worked for three different companies over 10 years, so knows a few things about what actually goes on there than you using Google and Youtube. Now, that's not to say that some can't lose their business from the own mistakes such as her ex husband who owned a factory and gambled it away in Macou, so not everything is the state's fault.

 

[Masada]

"It's not so bad. The prisoners are allowed to catch their own food inside the camps. Yeah it's mostly rats, but they're allowed to catch whatever they can!"

Oh, that's not that bad! Prisoner of Mao told me that in Chinese gulags the prisoners were often not allowed to even catch rats or eat berries! Bourgeious profitering it was. (I wish I was joking in some of the camps the author went through that was indeed the case. In others the regime was humane in the being fed enough food to have the feeling of a full stomach. The author also had a high opinion of a fair number of the CCP doods he had to deal with: good men; bad system).

 

[Formaldehyde]

Again? What was the 1st absurd war? The one going on right now?

That's right. The one that nearly all South Koreans wish would end, but is still being incited by outside forces.

And let's not forget the ruler of South Korea at the time, Syngman Rhee, was pushing for the US to invade North Korea as well. That the Soviets withdrew from NK in 1948 and the US did the same in SK in 1949, which left the situation in the hands of two tyrants who both wanted to eliminate the other.

That left-wing South Korea soldiers even rebelled against the Rhee regime in Yeosu-Suncheon after the Jeju Uprising resulted in the deaths of 14-60K people, many of whom were executed. Even Park Chung-hee, who would later become the president, participated in the uprising.

That the South Korean Army even massacred 86 to 88 unarmed citizens in Mungyeong prior to the invasion.

This conflict wasn't nearly as one-sided as many now believe. Rhee was vehemently anti-Communist, which is likely why he was selected by the US to be the first ruler. But he used that as an excuse to remove any opposition to him while killing somewhere between 100,000 and 200,000 South Koreans who opposed him.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhee_Syngman

When Rhee assumed power in 1948, he immediately enacted laws that outlawed political dissent, and began arresting and eliminating leftist political organizers.[6] He allowed the internal security force (headed by his right-hand man, Kim Chang-ryong) to detain and torture suspected Communists and North Korean agents. His government also oversaw several massacres, the most notable one being on Jeju island in which over 30,000 were killed in response to an uprising by leftist factions.

At the outbreak of the Korean war, the South Korean military committed massacres throughout the country, and potential subversives were rounded up and placed into prison camps where they were often tortured and starved.[7]

South Korea's Truth and Reconciliation Commission has estimated that the number of deaths attributed to these killings is at least 100,000 and perhaps upwards of 200,000.

Restored as South Korea's leader after the recapture of Seoul, Rhee's relationship with the United States became strained after he refused to agree to a number of ceasefire proposals that might have ended the Korean War. Rhee wanted to become the leader of a unified Korea so he vetoed any plans that failed to destroy Kim Il-Sung. He also wanted stronger methods to be used against the government of Mao Zedong, expressing annoyance that the U.S. was reluctant to bomb China with nuclear weaponry.

Because of widespread discontent with Rhee's corruption and political repression, it was considered unlikely that Rhee would be re-elected by the National Assembly. To circumvent this, Rhee attempted to amend the constitution to allow him to hold elections for the presidency by direct popular vote. When the Assembly rejected this amendment, Rhee ordered a mass arrest of opposition politicians, and then passed the desired amendment in July 1952. During the following presidential election, he received 74% of the vote.[8]

Following the end of the Korean War and for the remainder of his rule, he kept the Empress Sunjeong of the Korean Empire imprisoned at Suin Hall, a cottage in Jeongneung, Seoul. Rhee feared that the South Korean population still revered her and opponents would use the Dowager Queen as a figurehead. Nevertheless, he made his own claims that he was related to the Royal family and the House of Yi.

 

[Takhisis]

And, still, the South korean president at the time being a scumbag doesn't deny the existence of 'reeducation camps' where people are sent for thinking the wrong thoughts, i.e. that the Dear Leader might be wrong, that people who disagree with him don't deserve kidnapping, tortures or execution, that kidnapping foreign citizens is wrong, that perhaps they'd like to choose their own jobs and elect their own rulers thank you very much, etc. etc.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Once again, nobody has said they do.

And I wouldn't characterize detaining American missionaries who illegally enter the country and get caught as "kidnapping". Or were you referring to some other incident?

 

[Takhisis]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korean_abductions_of_Japanese_citizens

 

[Formaldehyde]

How odd. I was not familiar with that particular atrocity. No wonder so many people refused to believe it for so long.

 

[kochman]

Here's another glimpse into the daily life of North Korea...
Death Camps in N. Korea

New photos taken from space have revealed in unprecedented detail the concentration camps that North Korea deny exist but use to imprison more than 200,000 of its citizens.
Men, women and children are forced to work seven days a week as slaves and eat 'rats, frogs, snakes, insects' and even faeces to battle starvation.
Previously there have been blurred images taken of the camps by satellite but new detailed pictures from South Korea's Unification Ministry allow a closer look at the sites and also prove they have grown.
Experts say the tens of thousands of prisoners at the camps are often taken from their homes or in the street for general 'political crimes' rather than actual misdemeanours.