A Guide to Playing “Small” on Deity (feat. Piety)

[Acken]

My point isn't that the strategy is not optimal. We all agree on that.
My point is that any policy strategy can give you a diplomatic victory and that things like City states being bought or captured, which can make your life difficult, are not influenced by it !

See the honor, commerce, autocracy strategy for exemple. Not optimal/fastest but at least it is a sound idea and leads to a victory that is not possible if you completely mess your game.

Really I don't have a problem with Piety itself. I have a problem with this whole "play from behind because anyway you can always win diplomacy" idea. Hell it is even written in Mitosu's report: "Failed at everything. [...] And eventually I won, though not on the first vote."
Crafting a guide on Piety and then find the best way to use it to win say domination would not make me frown as much.

That said I'll let this subject alone since I'm just stating my opinion on it and think I cannot be clearer.

 

[IronfighterXXX]

My point is that any policy strategy can give you a diplomatic victory and that things like City states being bought or captured, which can make your life difficult, are not influenced by it !

Not sure if you talking to me, but obviously I'm aware of it and my post

Acken - can't wait when you write 'First two policies from each tree strategy' guide and will get many faithfull followers.

was ironic, that because you proved that this policies choice 'works' some people may say it's valid 'strategy'

 

[Acken]

No sorry that wasn't a response to your post.

 

[consentient]

Well it IS a valid strategy to not complete any trees. The great thing about the English language is we have lots of different words with different meanings. In our language at least, 'valid' does not mean anything remotely like 'optimal'. You are so concerned with optimums, IronfighterXXX, that you've lost sight of the fact that valid in this context means 'anything that a player chooses that works'.

After the Mongolia ICL, I played a game with Policy Saving on and stopped after finishing Honor, on Deity, and won comfortably. The rest of the policy trees are really nice benefits, but they're not essential. Probably none of it is.

In fact, I might make a Deity challenge with no Policies.

 

[IronfighterXXX]

Well it IS a valid strategy to not complete any trees. The great thing about the English language is we have lots of different words with different meanings. In our language at least, 'valid' does not mean anything remotely like 'optimal'. You are so concerned with optimums, IronfighterXXX, that you've lost sight of the fact that valid in this context means 'anything that a player chooses that works'.

Well, obviously I'm not a native-english speaker, but here is google translator definition of 'valid' word: (of an argument or point) having a sound basis in logic or fact; reasonable or cogent.
Synonyms: well-founded, sound, reasonable, rational, logical, justifiable, defensible, viable.

How in that contex 'strategy' to not complete any trees is logic, reasonable and cogent?

In fact, I might make a Deity challenge with no Policies.

I think I saw such challenge previously on this forum, though probably before BNW.

Anyway, I understand that if you manage to do it, you will call no taking single policy next valid strategy, because it worked for you?

 

[stormtrooper412]

I'm definitely doing a Small Piety No Policy Diplomatic run, that was awesome

 

[adcarrymaokai]

So let's summarize this 'strategy' - reroll maps until you get faith-oriented dirt, and a non- aggressive neighbor who does not found.
Then stay backward all game and pray to noone annihilate you and abuse science overflow bug and AIs inability to win; and 'win'~300t. Great.

Yeah, but not everyone wants to play Tradition-Rationalism in every game. That got boring a long time ago.

 

[consentient]

Well, obviously I'm not a native-english speaker, but here is google translator definition of 'valid' word: (of an argument or point) having a sound basis in logic or fact; reasonable or cogent.
Synonyms: well-founded, sound, reasonable, rational, logical, justifiable, defensible, viable.

How in that contex 'strategy' to not complete any trees is logic, reasonable and cogent?

Finding definitions by use of Google Translator, is ill advised.

A good place to start would be dictionary.cambridge.org which gives

"based on truth or reason; able to be accepted:"

So yes, this strategy is valid because it is true that it works, and most of us can accept it.

I'm sorry that you can't but you're really wasting everyone's time with your continued attitude that if it isn't The Best, then it MUST be criticised endlessly.

 

[Bliss]

What went wrong here, guys?

I guess I failed. Shaka just crushed Venice and founded his new Religion.

Was it my beliefs? My science? Lack of exploration? Stupid map? Should I keep rolling? I just picked commerce btw, because I realized I had no unit/buildings to spend my faith on, so I guess I should get those great mechants asap.

http://imgur.com/a/BAh5Q

Spoiler :

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Spoiler :

 

[Acken]

What went wrong is that it's turn 131 and you have 32 science and a size 10 capital.

Get a better economy going. Faster growth, faster NC.

 

[Bliss]

What went wrong is that it's turn 131 and you have 32 science and a size 10 capital.

Get a better economy going. Faster growth, faster NC.

Well, but isn't this what OP suggested? I was hoping to compensate the lame science with my british spies. (Would take techs in 3 turns from Venice... until Shaka!)

So, should I have rushed Astronomy to go convert new lands?

 

[Acken]

I'm not sure how to respond considering how I disagree, fundamentally, with the idea proposed in the OP...

How converting the other continent is supposed to make your game stronger ? And more importantly how are we going to reach Astronomy with 32 science per turn ? What happens if your spy dies ?

Really I'd suggest trying to get a better base as an empire. Faster growth and decent science. Try growing your capital higher. If you want a pure piety game you can try but I'd still suggest going Liberty (3) first before.

 

[consentient]

Small Piety doesn't mean stagnation. It means suboptimal growth, but growth all the same.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[IronfighterXXX]

What went wrong here, guys?

Wrong is this 'strategy'.

Let's call it straight - there aren't ANY advantages between going small piety over tall tradition besides fooling around.

 

[joe_the_dead]

Has someone done a Video trying this »small Piety« Strategy on Deity? I would really like to watch a successful game before i try it myself.

 

[stormtrooper412]

Wrong is this 'strategy'.

Let's call it straight - there aren't ANY advantages between going small piety over tall tradition besides fooling around.

And I'm pretty sure nobody ever said there are

 

[Bliss]

And I'm pretty sure nobody ever said there are

Isn't it about playing pacific, milking theocracy and using world diplomacy to win diplomatically?

And also using lagged Science bonus?

 

[Acken]

Yeah but you should try to still get a decent economy going, no ?

I understand the point made about being behind and getting bonuses+steal but I do not understand why it's viewed as okay to get a T150 NC on 2-3 cities. Why nerf your growth ? All this is based on OP screenshots.

These aren't Piety perks. If a gameplan has the constraint to use Piety it should still be built to play efficiently.

 

[stormtrooper412]

The key part of this whole 'come from behind' strategy that I based some of my Diplo wins in DCL is waiting to see what Ideology will be the dominate and then pick it as 4th or 5th choice and nominate as World Ideology as soon as possible. Or wait to see which one will be picked by the scariest warmongering neighbor and follow that one instead. Whether or not you pick Piety or Tradition or Liberty seems kind of arbitrary, converting AI cities to have your founder bonus (tithe or church property) won't really cause astronomical difference in your gpt.

And since the AI doesn't care if your 3 cities are size 15 or size 30, you can easily go Tradition anyway. Not sure if the "happily adopted your religion" modifier itself is strong enough to tip the scales into being sure to never be attacked.

Either way, you need good enough science to get to Globalization before the first vote, you will be unlikely to win without it and/or without non-negligible luck

 

[Nigel_Tufnel2]

It's more in the very early game that you don't grow much - focus on gold especially, and maintaining excellent relations (settle away from AI, give away lux and strategics if need be). It really is entertaining to play so "poorly" (but I'm one who isn't obsessed with always making the "best" choices, the game is a lot more fun for me using a very wide variety of approaches). Get that one, hopefully two, religious buddies to eventually make the unpopular WC proposals.

But once you get Aqueducts and CivService, you grow quite fast. You will still be far behind for the tech bonus for a long time. Really, my favorite part of the guide is the fairly deft manipulation of the diplo game. There are approaches there I still have never seen anyone else mention. Plus it's a fun read. There is a section that suggests how to transition into a more standard game. Elite players will yawn, but I found it very interesting.

In the one DCL I used it, I stayed alive next to Shaka, Khan, and about 20 tiles from Assyria. I did have to fight off an early Shaka rush, but I was BFFs with all three as long as they stayed alive. I was able to manipulate the others Ideologies like crazy, which again, was entertaining as heck. Take what you can use and leave the rest, IMO.