A moderate warmonger penalty is -16!!??

[Dustbrother]

Having not declared war on ANYONE the entire game, I get to the medieval era to make my move at the right time in a formal war. I declare one war and I'm branded as a hilter? -16 outways ANYTHING on the modifier list. -16 should be for if you've committed genocide.

It's kind of messed up my game.

 

[Soterius]

Probably a stupid question but where do you see the -16? I've never seen a number for warmongering ingame, but maybe that's because I don't have enough level of access to the other civ's?

 

[nokmirt]

In my game I have had Germany DOW me and most civs hate me for some odd reason. If I DOWed Germany now, which I plan on doing. I'll be like a Stalin or Hitler as well. Late game wars should not be penalized as much as they are now. Firaxis should pull back a bit on warmonger penalties. They should keep in mind that one of the fun aspects of civ are late game wars.

It is the Industrial Era, Germany denounced me. So, in 5 turns I will declare war with a CB. I bet even with the CB it will be a severe warmonger penalty.

 

[UncivilizedGuy]

War is not to be taken lightly

 

[Ozisl]

The AI just goes so much in circles of war and peace... constantly re-declaring wars and re-allying... but you trespass once and you're doomed.

 

[pietro1990]

Yes the warmonger penalty for declaring war is to high


i've had a game where i declared one war at medievel war and suddenly the enitre world hates me..

 

[CaiusDrewart]

The penalty for violating an agenda is -12, right? Declaring a surprise war in the Medieval Era should be like -3. If that.

 

[Dustbrother]

Probably a stupid question but where do you see the -16? I've never seen a number for warmongering ingame, but maybe that's because I don't have enough level of access to the other civ's?

That's probably the case, it probably comes up as unknown reason for you. I've been really trying to be buds with gilgamesh the whole game so I have access to the reasons he likes/dislikes me.

Click on the relationship button when you're in their diplomacy screen.

 

[pietro1990]

The penalty for violating an agenda is -12, right? Declaring a surprise war in the Medieval Era should be like -3. If that.

Thats not true its much more it should be low but it isn't.

i've had people denounce me for no reason when i declared war at the medievel era.

 

[Dustbrother]

The penalty for violating an agenda is -12, right? Declaring a surprise war in the Medieval Era should be like -3. If that.

All I can say is, I was in medieval, never declared war before, we'd been at the denounced stage for ages, I CB formal war him, then I end up taking a -16 hit with every other civ I know. The ones who I can see their reasoning tell me its because of warmongering. Reloading and trying different ways, I even get -16 from someone who joins me in a joint war... You get +5 for fighting in a joint was and -16 for the fact they now think you're a warmonger. Did the person who set these values ever do a playthrough? Were they theorycrafting the game? I don't understand how it's SO wrong.

 

[pietro1990]

yuu are not the only one dude i've had Ai denounce me for no reason just because i declared war with high penalties like -16

I didn't even take cities i just declared war

 

[nokmirt]

All I can say is, I was in medieval, never declared war before, we'd been at the denounced stage for ages, I CB formal war him, then I end up taking a -16 hit with every other civ I know. The ones who I can see their reasoning tell me its because of warmongering. Reloading and trying different ways, I even get -16 from someone who joins me in a joint war... You get +5 for fighting in a joint was and -16 for the fact they now think you're a warmonger. Did the person who set these values ever do a playthrough? Were they theorycrafting the game? I don't understand how it's SO wrong.

They did not think things through. The game needs a patch.

 

[Louis XXIV]

What's the context of -16? I'm assuming it's a large number, but I can't tell in a vacuum.

 

[King Jason]

Considering you can get +30 from modifiers that aren't even the agendas, I think the warmonger penalties are fine.

In 6-8 player games I've been able to consistently ally with at least two civs every time. More often than not those civs are enemies with each other, so I take a -8 hit with them for being allied with the other and they still never care when I DoW and conquer other civs.

Delegations, Open borders, Trade deals, Trade Routes, can get you just under +20. Matching Governments and/or a religion is +5-10.

Declare friend as soon as you can, that's another big modifier.

With my experience, I can't help but feel the only folks who are having harsh repercussions due to war are people that are ignoring diplomacy.

Of course, if you care about the diplo-hits at all, you'll have to accept that surprise wars are pretty much out of the question, and then eventually, you'll rely exclusively on casus belli. Though that's not exactly necessary - it helps.

 

[pietro1990]

They did not think things through. The game needs a patch.

The worst part is they thinx they did a great job i thinx we will have to wait a long time before there comes a patch.

it took civ 5 2 expansions to fix the warmoger penalty. and they made it great don't know why they made it worse.

 

[pietro1990]

Considering you can get +30 from modifiers that aren't even the agendas, I think the warmonger penalties are fine.

In 6-8 player games I've been able to consistently ally with at least two civs every time. More often than not those civs are enemies, so I take a -8 hit with them for being allied with the other and they still never care when I DoW and conquer other civs.

Delegations, Open borders, Trade deals, Trade Routes, can get you just under +20. Matching Governments and/or a religion is +5-10.

Declare friend as soon as you can, that's another big modifier.

With my experience, I can't help but feel the only folks who are having harsh repercussions due to war are people that are ignoring diplomacy.

Of course, if you care about the diplo-hits at all, you'll have to accept that surprise wars are pretty much out of the question, and then eventually, you'll rely exclusively on casus belli. Though that's not exactly necessary - it helps.

What are you talking about +30 modifiers not agenda what are they?

the only ones that are big enough are sharing a same goverment but i noticed that isn't big enough to stop the enormous penalty for declaring war.

 

[Dustbrother]

Considering you can get +30 from modifiers that aren't even the agendas, I think the warmonger penalties are fine.

In 6-8 player games I've been able to consistently ally with at least two civs every time. More often than not those civs are enemies with each other, so I take a -8 hit with them for being allied with the other and they still never care when I DoW and conquer other civs.

Delegations, Open borders, Trade deals, Trade Routes, can get you just under +20. Matching Governments and/or a religion is +5-10.

Declare friend as soon as you can, that's another big modifier.

With my experience, I can't help but feel the only folks who are having harsh repercussions due to war are people that are ignoring diplomacy.

Of course, if you care about the diplo-hits at all, you'll have to accept that surprise wars are pretty much out of the question, and then eventually, you'll rely exclusively on casus belli. Though that's not exactly necessary - it helps.

You're saying that all of this:

Delegations, Open borders, Trade deals, Trade Routes (which doesn't get you to just under 20 by the way.)

should be equal to this:

Declaring war on another civ they don't give a damn about for the first time EVEN if they join along side you in a joint war. And yes this was a formal war, CB not surprise.

Come on mate, that's just nonsense and yes I was paying very close attention to the diplomatic lay of the land.

 

[mnf]

This is what's happening to me now:

1. Defend 4 surprise wars without taking any enemy city.
2. On 5th war, again a surprise war declared by the AI on me, I took an AI city.
3. "Keep City?"
   Keep = your warmonger status will be Egregious (Dark Red, the highest level)
   Raze = triple warmonger status and you will be Egregious.

Either way, I'm forced to become a warmonger. Hm...

 

[code99]

Yes the warmonger penalty is too much. Pretty much same thing happened to me, havent declared war on anyone but then an AI dowed me and i took one of his newly found city (1 pop) which he founded right in the middle of my empire. Now every one and their dog hate me and want me dead. Essentially the turn after the war was over everyone denounced me.

Now, if i declare war on someone, im sure all the AI will declare war on me because of warmongering. I cant wait for a mod to reduce this penalty... i might even do it myself.

 

[pietro1990]

This is what's happening to me now:

1. Defend 4 surprise wars without taking any enemy city.
2. On 5th war, again a surprise war declared by the AI on me, I took an AI city.
3. "Keep City?"
   Keep = your warmonger status will be Egregious (Dark Red, the highest level)
   Raze = triple warmonger status and you will be Egregious.

Either way, I'm forced to become a warmonger. Hm...

My experience so far suggests that it's ok to have cities close together. They don't get massive where you need all 36 tiles, so having cities spaced out 4-5 tiles apart works out ok. I haven't yet been cramped by doing this, although I suck at the game so take anything I say with a grain of salt!

Anyone else feel the same, that closer together cities is OK, and preferred considering the borders don't grow fast anyways, and cities seem smaller? Or am I out to lunch?

Does the AI get a warmonger penalty. because it seems they don't.