A New Dawn Beta Builds

[winthrowe]

Great, thanks. I've uploaded a replacement dll to the OP which fixes both the orchard bug and your crash. Enjoy!

Thanks!

 

[Ganja]

now this is getting confusing..for me anyway..I downloaded the 'bleeding edge' version 212 and used that as my base for the next testing. The replacement dll just posted is to be used over the 212 version or does version 212 contain those fixes? Thanks

 

[winthrowe]

now this is getting confusing..for me anyway..I downloaded the 'bleeding edge' version 212 and used that as my base for the next testing. The replacement dll just posted is to be used over the 212 version or does version 212 contain those fixes? Thanks

this is part of 213 that just came out probably. 212 was where I had my bug.

 

[os79]

now this is getting confusing..for me anyway..I downloaded the 'bleeding edge' version 212 and used that as my base for the next testing. The replacement dll just posted is to be used over the 212 version or does version 212 contain those fixes? Thanks

Revision 213 have the fixed source files plus dll file. So I suspect that the first post's attached file should work for you as well. I have Revision 213 on my machine and I'm already in a habit of compiling my own dll when using SVN .

 

[Killtech]

Because of the scarcity of valuable resources, that is the driving reason to keep eXpanding. If I wait the AI gets the Iron and I don't. It' Really that Simple.

in such a situation i wait. even if the AI gets it. if i can't take it without ruining my economy i

I've noticed for sometime now that the AI vs player placement an # of resources nearby is weighted in favor of the AI. Therefore I have less resources to work with. And Only thru eXpansion can I claim the resources I Need to Survive. Now this strategy may make playing Deity a challenge but on Noble it's a Deadly Handicap ( I DO like to win occasionally you know).

anything that is a deadly handicap on noble will kill you right off on deity. you know that deity is much much harder??

I understand the eXpansion Rush, but when I have 3 cities and the AI has anywhere from 3 to 7 cities I'm in serious trouble if the AI's that have more cities (and therefore more resources) decide I'm "unfriendly".

no you aren't in any touble. if the has 7 cities early on you can be quite sure it just screwed its economy. all you need to do is wait and watch how they become weaker and weaker and fall back technologically while you research and develop your economy. then you build up your military one day and take those cities you want and let the rest to your new vassal.

Seriously you guys that play at Emperor and above have to rein in your playstyle and imposition of your way of thinking or you will kill off the Noble and lower level players. Do you understand that? What works for you may Kill me! This is why I stated a long time ago that ALL betatesting should be on Noble level, so you can see how your mod works on the avg level. If it's balanced there (Noble) it Should scale properly for the other levels.

well, i made some games on noble difficulty when i tested how the AI is doing. played on noble because wanted to them to me. and guess what? i nearly won the game at classic age through mercy rule.

there is no sense testing things on noble as the AI is far too stupid to compete. i get every single wonder and tech first (from classic age on). threre's not much i can test that way.

 

[Ganja]

os79 -thanks for that quick answer. I thought the same thing but I went ahead and downloaded 213.

Now out of curiosity what map or map script are most of you guys using?

 

[winthrowe]

planet generator 0.68 is my current favorite, but I'm also partial to perfect world 2 and smartmap

 

[Killtech]

About the Pyramids. I was thinking about it giving +1 health globally to negate the unhealthiness from the River Regulation unhealthiness, so that it would be a +1 on all river commerce. Seem like a fair compromise?

Love it. Very fair. That was the heart of my issue -- I hated building a wonder that would instantly give me +1 in all cities.

don't tell me that it was all that bugged you?? i thought the change from food to commerce was the biggest problem! yeah, of course the pyramids change was originally not intended since i only wanted to remove the irrigation canals from the game... but that had some unforeseen side effects. indeed the cornhouse was an attempt to restore the lost food bonus but on a mre balanced level (+1 per city, otherwise early cities grew too rapidly if well placed).

If you haven't gone into the building upgrades in the 'pedia lately and seen the prereqs, Killtech has a LOT of changes. I like most of them, but he's a big fan of the "must have 3 (or #) Elder Councils / Libraries / Academies / City Councils / etc. to build "Y" upgrade"

admittedly my concerns about balance of the level 3 cities after the industrial age are speculations - my games just never go that far. however i remember how a huge excess of all yields they caused when i reached medieval in my earlier games. i'm not sure how excessive they still are in the modern age after all the balancing changes i've made. but what i want to prevent that after a certain tech all cities suddenly become metropolises one after the other. from a balancing point of view this means that your economy is suddenly doubling its total yield. if i remove the city councils prerequisite i would either need to put a hard production modifier to balance or a very high population requirement.

 

[lichen8566]

That's a known bug with RevDCM

Which orchard issue are you referring to? I'm 99% sure I fixed it a while ago. You should be able to build orchards on land regardless if there are already forests.

What's meaning of 'you can build orchards regardless if there are already forests' ?
Did you mean that you must cut down the forest first and then build the orchard?

OK, Here's my problem: the first, the button of building orchards is enabled everywhere if there are forests. Is it should be this? the second, even the build button is enabled, but the orchard still can not be constructed after the workers finish their job.

If you are sure these issues have already been fixed, it may be my installer problem, and I need to rebuild it completely. Thanks.

Edited: Oh, I got the reason. I read the SVN log and know you fixed this bug at 213. And my previous bug reports are based on 212.

 

[dudeSDCA]

don't tell me that it was all that bugged you?? i thought the change from food to commerce was the biggest problem! yeah, of course the pyramids change was originally not intended since i only wanted to remove the irrigation canals from the game... but that had some unforeseen side effects. indeed the cornhouse was an attempt to restore the lost food bonus but on a mre balanced level (+1 per city, otherwise early cities grew too rapidly if well placed).

I got over the food issue -- i understand you're trying to balance and I'm supportive. I just didn't like how big of a nerf the Pyramids unintentionally got. The health bonus wipes out the unhealthy and makes the wonder a WW again...

admittedly my concerns about balance of the level 3 cities after the industrial age are speculations - my games just never go that far. however i remember how a huge excess of all yields they caused when i reached medieval in my earlier games. i'm not sure how excessive they still are in the modern age after all the balancing changes i've made. but what i want to prevent that after a certain tech all cities suddenly become metropolises one after the other. from a balancing point of view this means that your economy is suddenly doubling its total yield. if i remove the city councils prerequisite i would either need to put a hard production modifier to balance or a very high population requirement.

I play faster games to get past industrial into the later modern / future times to have fun with big weapons, which is why I've been so vocal on this issue. It helps to know you typically win beforehand (I would expect as much if you're playing snail).

All the numbers later in the game are BIG. Lots of commerce, research, culture, etc. And the AI has access to the same things, same upgrades, and same benefits (and, if you're playing on a harder level, they get bigger bonuses because of lower costs of inflation, production, etc.). To me, this is when the game gets fun -- the game changes from being a straight tech race and worrying about resource micromanaging to a more macro strategic game: there's dozens of techs you can choose from, the pace increases, the wars can be more fast paced, etc.

And I think all this reflects history quite well, with the general trend of technological innovation increasing over time, I would expect that while it took me 10 turns to discover the wheel, it only takes 1 turn to discover logistics (and so on).

But, game discussions aside, Afforess explained it very clearly (and I'm good with his explanation):

Okay, hear is how the Metropolitan Administration works:

If you are playing with Larger cities, and it's a radius three city, the build just has no effect. Influential culture level still unlocks the 3rd radius like normal. If you build the Metropolitan Administration in a city that only has a 2nd or 1st radius, it automatically expands to the 3rd radius.

If you aren't playing with Larger Cities, then when you build the Metropolitan Administration, you city expands to the third radius anyway. The Metropolitan Administration is the only way to get to the third culture level if Larger Cities are off.

 

[Killtech]

And I think all this reflects history quite well, with the general trend of technological innovation increasing over time, I would expect that while it took me 10 turns to discover the wheel, it only takes 1 turn to discover logistics (and so on).

that is a bitter thing i try to prevent. time scale between turns massively reduces over the ages to reflect that everything is becoming faster. while at the game start decades of years pass between two turns it's down to months in the 19th century. so no need to boost the game speed additionally. i want to keep it somewhat constant - so a snail game feels like snail in every age, even in the transhuman and research takes more then one turn!

i've put the population requirement up to 25 and set the tech requirement to social contract (although realistically it far too early for mega cities to occur) but therefore i added a national wonder like building with the same function that can be build in the capital earlier with easier requirement.

i suppose it won't work balanced... i've increased the additional maintenance to +50% but i fear even that won't help much.

 

[winthrowe]

I seem to have a hard decision to make about compulsory voting and the tooltip isn't really helping (same blank from both options):

 

[Killtech]

i've put the population requirement up to 25 and set the tech requirement to social contract (although realistically it far too early for mega cities to occur) but therefore i added a national wonder like building with the same function that can be build in the capital earlier with easier requirement.

reducd it down to 22. seems more reasonable as i suspect that not every player develops his cities to such sizes so early. i hope only few cities will be able to get to radius 3 in renaissance and that the majority will reach it no sooner then in the modern age. it's not exactly realistic (too early) but let's see how it plays.

 

[crossclayton]

Hi

Just wondering what the changes are from AND 1.74 beta 5 to Beta 6.

Also, im sure your probably sick of hearing things like this. But im finding the amount of gold i can bring in is still way to high. I am playing on huge earth map on snail and I am currently in the medieval era just discovered astronomy. I have 13 cities and my vassals are spain, germany, russia, persia and mali. I am playng as england. I am at 100% research and have quite a large army and my navy force is very big, should be costing me a fortune. Plus 4 of my cities are where mongolia once stood and i am still getting 150 to 200 extra currency per turn! My tre4asury is currently holding over 15000.

Also, I have noticed a huge reduction in the amount of revolts occuring in my game. I have had none at all and it has been only a few times where a message telling me that an AI's chance of revolting has increased because they refused rebel terms, indicating that rev is on and working but seems to be more relaxed. Were there any changes made to revolutions?

Plus, when are we going to be able to release vassal states, There are three masters in the world and the rest are vassals, yet some of them are quite large civs still, eg. persia has double the amount of cities i do but capitulated after just me taking one of their cities. And now my game is getting boring because no one will become independant again and its to peaceful.

China is in control of half of asia and not one revolt. Any ideas on how i can get more revolts, less cowardly AI and more expensive armies and maintanence. I love ROM and AND but it has just become way to easy to play.

 

[climat]

Please enlighten me.
Do improvements increase maintenance currently? I think those things can increase maintenance (in real world).
It may be one way to balance income.

Terrain promotion doesn't work properly. Unit with tundra promotion (which prevent terrain damage in tundra) got damaged in tundra tile.

 

[schack]

About game speeds, I dived into GameSpeedInfo.xml some more.
The setting in all the previous versions have been that the game ends in 2100, so I'd assume the same is the goal with the changes that have been made to Snail, Marathon, Epic and Normal speeds. I suspect a good reason for changing the speeds was to offer more gameplay prior to the modern era.

Normal and Snail haven't had their amount of turns changed, but rather modified the intervals in which the increments occur.
I've not played on either of those speeds, but I can see that with the changes, Normal is now set to end in 2155ad while Snail ends in 2125ad. What is common for both is that "halfway in the game" is now set in the 1300s rather than the 1600s. I guess that's by design.

However, Marathon and Epic seem broken. They've had their number of turns adjusted up and also gotten a new layout for the interval increments.
Marathon's gone up from 1590 to 1875 turns. But with the current increment layout, Marathon games finish in 3468! Also, the modifiers have not changed. I don't know if that's a balancing change because it was impossible to finish a game in 1590 turns previously.

Epic is much the same. Turns increased from 1050 to 1250 without modifier changes. But it's also off by a bit as the game is set to finish in 2281.

I wouldn't mind helping fiddling with the numbers to get them right, I just need to know what the design goal is. If it is to shift some of the turns in a game to an earlier stage or maintain the layout while introducing more turns to complete the game?

 

[lichen8566]

Bugs for Revision 213:
1. [ unresolved old bug ]. The city bar doesn't display the Religion icons except the religion which is in the holy city.
2. Once I command a worker to build a road ( after researched Monarch ) I can gain some money immdiately. ( The money should be spend, not gain. )

Edited:
3. The Drama technology is invisible in the big picture.

 

[Homie1984]

You should be able to build the orchard overtop of existing forests, you don't need to chop it down. Either way, you should be able to build the improvement.

I've tried both, with the same result. There is still/new forest and no orchard.

 

[strategyonly]

Had this weird NO religious icon appear in Beta 6? Now to two cities But as you can see in the pic's the religion is there.

 

[lichen8566]

I've tried both, with the same result. There is still/new forest and no orchard.

Afforess fixed this bug in the revision 213, you could download it from SVN.

And to Afforess: I highly recommend you stop to add new modmods, and keep focus on debugging and balance adjusting. Then we will get a best Civ4 mod for collection before the release of Civ5.